Help! 8A Princess dial...faster than the speed of light...

[easytiger]

MIT!  MIT!  It's bad...it's very bad.  I dug out a couple Princess phones from long time exile to clean-up and get in service.  One is my very first phone from many moons ago (a "rescue" of sorts...but that's a whole 'nuther story...), the other a later thrift store acquisition from another life.

Here's the deal:  While in exile, one apparently contracted some rare dial disease.  The dial returns faster than the speed of light.  I mean FAST...like it could almost take a finger off.  The other one seemed to be working OK...UNTIL...I cleaned it up a little with a Q-tip.  I didn't oil anything - just a little alcohol on a Q-tip here and there.  I've read the sage wisdom here about oil in/on/near the governor can cause the dial to return too fast, but again, I didn't oil ANYTHING...and didn't even get near what I assumed was the governor with the Q-tip.  The second dial has now contracted the same disease - just being in proximity to the first, I guess.

Is the round whatchamacallit in the photo the governor on these 8A's?  Any sage wisdom on if it's possible to somehow adjust the return speed back to normal on these two dials?

[Phonesrfun]

Yes, that round "whatchamacallit" is the governor.  It sounds more like the entire gear train is not engaged, but how you have two dials with the same problem is beyond me.  I am not a Princess 8A expert, as I believe these are not as repairable as the earlier dials.  They had a tendancy to use plastic gears to make them quieter and more economical to build.

I would check to see if the governor spins when the dial is returning.  Generally, the governor is hooked to a clutch that makes it so it does not spin, or spins very little on dial wind-up, but then spins on dial wind-down.  The governor has an expansion piece in the middle that has friction pads that rub against the inside of the governor body.  The faster the governor turns, centrifugal force causes the expansion part to flare out and the friction pads rub more against the governor body, and the friction holds it back from going any faster.  The semi-coiled spring that holds the two expansion parts back is designed to callibrate the governor.  If that spring is wound too tight, then the governor expansion pieces will never flare out to slow the dial down on the return run-down.

Hopefully this all makes sense.

[easytiger]

Thanks, Bill.  Exactly...it's beyond me too!  What we have here is a bonafide double bummer.

Your explanation of the governor's operation actually does makes sense...at least I'm starting to get a picture. 

The governor does spin when the dial is returning.  It spins on wind up as well.  All the gears appear to be metal, appear engaged, and everything turns and seems to operate fine...just really, really fast.  I reconnected the dial and tried a couple of calls.  A couple successfully trying to manually manage the speed, as well as one successful and one wrong number (sorry, lady ) with the dial in it's currently "floored" state. 

The governors seems to be on strike...somethin's not right...

[Phonesrfun]

A coule of further tests:

1.  While winding the dial up, if you stop the rotation of the governor with your finger, you should still be able to wind the dial up.

2.  While still stopping the rotation of the governor with your finger, and letting the dial return, the dial should not return at all while the governor is being held.

If it passes both tests, then the governor's one-way clutch is working, but the governor's regulating action is somehow not working.

In order for the governor to work, it needs oil free and durt/dust-free friction on the inside of the governor barrel.  If you suspect there is dirt, dust or oil inside the barrel, you could dribble in some rubbing alcohol and run it several times to clean it out.  Then spray it out real good with canned compressed air to get all the alcohol out.  Be careful not to dislodge the circular spring on the top of the governor.

Do not use anything else except rubbing alcohol.  Solvent and paint thinner are too oily.  Acetone is too strong and could damage other things.

Jorge and some others may be able to give some additional advice.

[JorgeAmely]

If it returns too fast, there is oil on the shoes. Alcohol or soap and a toothbrush may be used to clean the governor. Just make sure you dry it really nicely with compressed air. Then you can put a tiny amount of oil on the governor shaft only.

Good luck. Otherwise, Steve Hilsz is your man,

[easytiger]

Thanks, guys.  While stopping the governor rotation, the dial does still wind-up.  But, alas, the dial also returns with a finger on the governor (did I mention really, really fast )  It does run slower with more pressure of course.   Sounds like that may mean a clutch problem...?

Slightly running the corner of a business card on the inside of the governor body, it is pulling back a little black, so it may have a little something in there.  I'll try the cleaning suggestions to see if I can get any improvement...

[easytiger]

An update if interested:
 
In a dialogue with Steve Hilsz today, the official diagnosis has been made:  broken clutch springs – which, in this particular dial configuration - with riveted metal main motor and gear assembly - are impossible to replace.

Bill did prepare me for the possibility of something along these lines, but it's just so sad!    Memorial services are planned.

Not one usually overly-concerned about original dates, I am on the lookout for a functioning IV/63 8A dial for a replacement for one of them – largely owing to sentiment for my 1st (rescued) phone.

[Dennis Markham]

Steve didn't have a replacement for you??

[easytiger]

Unfortunately, he didn't have a replacement for this particular production run, Dennis.

He does have the possibility of exchanging the entire gear assembly from later production ones, but the IV/63 date couldn't be preserved.

I do have a spare from an earlier, (very) hard-luck donor Princess I can substitute in the meantime, but wanted take my chances in eventually tracking down a IV/63 8A for this particular phone – again, largely for sentimental reasons in this case (however dramatic that might sound)...

[Dennis Markham]

I understand about wanting a particular date.  IV of 63....is there some significance there?  Birthday??

I've wanted to find a phone (most likely a W.E. since their parts are dated) with a date of 11-22-63.  Any baby boomer will recognize that date as being the day JFK was assassinated.  It was a Friday.  There must be one out there somewhere.

[easytiger]

No, no Birthday in IV of 63...I didn't come along until a just a few years later.

My connection, in this case, is to the phone as opposed to the date...other than it's the one that belongs to the phone!

Oh, eyes will roll, I know...but we have some history, this particular one and I, and I'd just like to preserve it's integrity inasmuch as it might be possible.

There are a couple other elements needing attention as well – and one at my own hand.  In an embarrassing faux pas from my apparent naïve youth in the 80's (how could I have known?), I removed the line cord and replaced it with a (color-matching at least) modular cord.  I could've sworn I had the original, but for the life of me can't now locate it in the boxes of life.  If that doesn't turn up, I may be putting a call out for 5-conductor Princess line cord – I apparently did have the presence of mind (at least) to preserve the dated (IV/63) retainer.

In any case, I'll keep an eye out for a 11-22-63 Kennedy phone for you, Dennis..even better with a Dallas TX number card?  Hmmm...

[rdelius]

You might try soaking the dial in alcohol to remove all the oil and then putting a drop of superglue between the shaft and the governer .This is if the problem is looseness. if the problem is a broken one way spring under the governer, this will not help.
Robby