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Guidelines for “outing” under-the-radar auctions ?

Started by RotarDad, March 27, 2019, 10:15:21 PM

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RotarDad

Quote from: HarrySmith on March 29, 2019, 02:27:19 PM
Do we really think discussing a phone here is going to skyrocket the price? The deep pocket buyers, like JKL & others scour eBay a lot more than we do and if they see one they want the sky is the limit. I do not think anyone here could outbid them!
Case in point MagicMo's original WE video phone.

Harry - For obviously valuable items with multiple great pics, you are correct.  However, the issue is much bigger when a phone like Dan's '48 field trial 500 is listed by a seller who isn't careful, includes one blurry pic and lets it fly on EBay.   Outing that will likely change who ends up owning it....  That is a big deal.
Paul

Western Bell

Quote from: Dan/Panther on March 29, 2019, 01:21:13 PM
I have long advocated that if you run across what appears to be a great eBay deal, or something you may feel is rare and it is an active auction, DO NOT POST IT TO THE FORUM.

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My bottom line is this.

The seller needs to do their homework.
The buyer needs to do their homework. 

Please don't do it for them.

(Took me a few days to find this link so I could post my opinion)

I agree with Dan/Panther. The ultimate example of keeping out of others business is here.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12738.0

As Dan said, sellers need to do their homework as do buyers. The seller on the above phone left a lot of money on the table. The buyer got a good deal for being observant and not running to the forum to ask questions about the phone before the auction ended, with 1 bid - his.

What's the point of running to the forum to promote something on eBay that's under the radar? Let the buyer's do their work and if they don't and miss out, someone like Kenton K (who did his homework and took a chance) took a chance and got a 48-500 type deal.

What's the point of running to the forum to out a phone on eBay other than an ego trip of some sorts to say look what I found, but have no interest in it so I'm telling everyone else to help the seller get more money?

The business of eBay is a seller lists an item and buyers bid on the item or BIN. What right does someone have to get into that business when it is obvious they don't want the phone for if they did want it, they would not have publicly promoted it. If a member knows someone who may want the phone, a PM to that member would be appreciated by him for the heads up and keeping it under the radar and I'm sure that PMd member would not be running to the forum to out a phone the member wants.

Now, these days, with Collector's Weekly posting active phones with bids on them and eBay, in all their wisdom, posting similar listing on the bottom of the page of every phone viewed, it is hard to see a phone fly under the radar, except in the case linked above. Only the most discerning, observant buyer would have caught the glint of red under that black paint and taken a chance. The deep pocket buyers (JKL, etc) missed it thanks to the seller not doing their homework and not posting internal pictures that would have made a difference for the seller. The eBay link is still active but the images are gone. Fortunately, a screen capture of the auction was added by a moderator so we can now see all the specifics on that sale.

It really gets down to what was said above by other members, if you see it and want it you will keep quiet about it. If you see it and are not interested in it, then why run to the forum to advertise the phone for the seller other than an ego trip? "Special" phones with no activity, bids and/or watchers, should not be posted on the forum until after the auction ends for a post mortem discussion of the phone.

eBay image



after paint removal



Butch Harlow

This is kinda a "both ways" type of discussion. In my personal case I assume that the bulk of you folks have deeper pockets than I do. That was evidenced by the swirl Kellogg. However, I do like the gambling aspect of bidding on live Ebay auctions. They can get crazy. If one goes way above what I would want to pay, so be it. That said, I search the Ebay for poorly worded, and miscategorized items all the time. If I find a gem, which is few and far between, and really want it, mum's the word until it's over. So, like I said, nobody's opinion here is wrong in any sense, and I appreciate all the different perspectives.
Butch Harlow

HarrySmith

Quote from: RotarDad on March 29, 2019, 04:29:26 PM
Harry - For obviously valuable items with multiple great pics, you are correct.  However, the issue is much bigger when a phone like Dan’s ‘48 field trial 500 is listed by a seller who isn’t careful, includes one blurry pic and lets it fly on EBay.   Outing that will likely change who ends up owning it....  That is a big deal.

Agreed. If I see something with no bids on it I do not post it, whether I want it or not. It goes on my watch list. In the case of the Swirled Kellogg it already had bids and was posted on the lists so all the deep pockets already knew about it.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Western Bell

Quote from: HarrySmith on March 29, 2019, 09:41:28 PM
Agreed. If I see something with no bids on it I do not post it, whether I want it or not. It goes on my watch list. In the case of the Swirled Kellogg it already had bids and was posted on the lists so all the deep pockets already knew about it.

As Harry said, this whole topic, with opinions all over the place, boils down to one point, do to others what you would want others to do to you - just use common sense and do no harm, think before writing and rethink what you wrote before hitting the Post button (and it helps to have read the whole topic before starting to write a reply).

Sargeguy

Its easy-if you see something that is a super deal, bid on it.  If you are not interested in it, leave it for the people who are.  Otherwise don't be surprised when the people who are watching the auction get annoyed with you.  If you are fine with annoying others, then out as many auctions as you like.  Then again,  I have bought items from auctions that people "outed" here on the forum.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Dan/Panther

Quote from: Butch Harlow on March 29, 2019, 06:15:03 PM
This is kinda a "both ways" type of discussion. In my personal case I assume that the bulk of you folks have deeper pockets than I do. That was evidenced by the swirl Kellogg. However, I do like the gambling aspect of bidding on live Ebay auctions. They can get crazy. If one goes way above what I would want to pay, so be it. That said, I search the Ebay for poorly worded, and miscategorized items all the time. If I find a gem, which is few and far between, and really want it, mum's the word until it's over. So, like I said, nobody's opinion here is wrong in any sense, and I appreciate all the different perspectives.

Butch;

How would you feel if like you said, you found that hidden treasure, and someone else found it also, didn't want it but came on CRPF and posted a link and photos, and you lost it by a dollar. Don't say you'd be OK with that, because NO ONE WOULD. Of course you'd get over it, but it will always be the one that got away.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Dan/Panther

When I won the 48-500 auction, Dennis was the only other bidder. Several others had seen it, but no one mentioned it. At one point a guy bid $1500.00. That is when I thought well there it goes. Then He WITHDREW his bid. What upset me, He had in the process revealed by maximum bid. I expected him to jump in at the last minute with a bid just a bit over my then revealed max bid. As it turns out he didn't. But in the process I had upped my max bid to $1,700.00. A price I could not afford, but had the money available if needed. A rainy day fund. Luckily Dennis bid Like $220.00 and my bid was automatic at $225.00.
Bottom line several people were watching the auction, but not a word on CRPF.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

RotarDad

Thank you for all the replies and thoughts on this.  I believe I can be so bold as to summarize generally-agreeable guidelines as follows:

1) We will carefully consider the situation before casually posting a live Ebay auction to the forum.   Items that may be valuable but only noticed by a careful observer certainly may qualify for not posting until the auction ends.  Also, potentially valuable items that have no bids, or just a few low bids, may also quality for not posting until the auction ends, or at least until there are plenty of bids/watchers.

2) We will apply the "Golden Rule" - do to others what you would want others to do to you (thank you Western Bell!).

Number 1) is certainly a judgement call, and reasonable people may sometimes reach different conclusions.  If we also follow number 2) however, we should be OK most of the time....  :)
Paul

Doug Rose

Nice thread Paul. I enjoyed reading all the diverse opinions. ...Doug
Kidphone

andre_janew

That explains why there have been no auction contests recently!

RotarDad

The auction contests were maintained by John (Teleplay) who I don't think is serving as an Administrator anymore.  Phones used in contests were usually ones that had good pics and were likely to be noticed by many Ebayers.  The auction contests may have occasionally outed a phone, but I think it was not common, and certainly not the intent.
Paul

Jim Stettler

John had a criteria for the auction contests. I am not sure of the entire criteria but, It needed to have lots of watchers, or  be on collectors weekly, or have many bidders.
John was very careful not to out the under-the-radar auctions.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

SunriseEarth

My thought is if you don't want other people to know about an active auction item, don't post about it.   As for what others do or don't do, that's beyond my control.
Tony Stokes

TCI Member; ATCA Member #4893

Dan/Panther

Auction contest is OK in my book. They are normally high end phones nothing hidden. No deal expected. No homework to do.
I mean the phone like Kenton won, was most likely missed by 90 % of the lookers, because the didn't see anything unusual. That is when I don't the anyone should post those. And besides, WHY would you post a phone that you think is valuable, just to create a higher winning bid, maybe above yours, OR if you don't want the phone, then ignore. If you don't want it, WHY ruin it for someone else ?

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson