Line cord for 500.

[Stephen Furley]

My red WE 500 is in almost perfect condition, except for one thing; it has a red plastic covered line cord which is very short, not much more than one metre.  To the end of this has been attached a modular jack which looks like it was designed to be installed inside a telephone.  The cord is very thin, maybe 2mm, and it was supplied with a modular-modular cord which is equally thin, and of clear plastic with green plugs, plugged into this.  I don't like modular plugs on old equipment, I don't want to hard wire it as I move move my 'phones around a lot; I bring a different one out to use every week or two.  I managed to obtain a couple of four prong plugs and jacks from somebody on the film-tech forums.  The newer of the two plugs looks like the correct vintage for this 'phone, the other is a much older looking Bakelite one which I will keep for use another time.

He also kindly supplied me with a PDF file of an AT&T document dated February 1967 which  describes various types of telephone plugs, and how to connect them up.  Would a copy of this document be useful to others here, and is there a way to post documents to this site?  It seems that he spent many years working for a telephone company, and so may have other interesting things that I could get copies of.  I'll have to arrange a time to call him, and talk about it.

The existing line cord is really too short, and it looks rather odd being so thin; was this the original type of cord supplied with these 'phones, or should it be thicker.  I had a look at Phoneco and Oldphoneworks a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not sure what type of cord would be correct; can anybody advise please?

One of the jacks is the usual square one, with the raised centre, but the other one is unlike anything I've seen before; it's circular, and made of thin thermoplastic.  I've taken a length of modern British line cord, which I have several drums of at work, and put a standard modern British line plug on one end of it.  At the other end I've tied a knot in it, which I've wedged into the gap between the outside and the centre of the jack.  I stripped about 1120mm of the sheath, and wound the four wires tightly around the solid centre before attaching the tip and ring wires to the terminals.  This feels quite secure.

I also need a dial card for this,  but I'm not sure which is the correct style.  Again, Oldphoneworks sell several different styles, will the WE ones, with the notch on the right side, fit this dial or are they for older types?

I've just noticed that under additional options you can attach files to posts so I've included a copy of the AT&T plugs document, in case it is of use to anybody.

Thanks for any advice.

[bingster]

Hi Stephen,

It sounds like you have standard line cord that's been shortened a bit.  The older line cords for the 500 are rather thin, and were replaced later on by a much thicker cord that, in my opinion, looks much better on this model.  But a standard cord is roughly six feet long, so yours has had a bit of a chop job.  Longer cords could be ordered specially, but I've never seen one that's shorter than six feet or so.

Regarding the dial card, yes any round western electric dial card will work in your phone's dial card holder.  The shape and size remained unchanged from the 1920s to the 1980s (and even 'til today, for the manufacturers who still make this model under license).  You may wish to print your own dial card, rather than pay to have one shipped, though.  If you'd like to give it a go, you can find a wide variety of styles here:

http://www.telephonearchive.com/numbercards/we/we_blanks_forms.html

[Stephen Furley]

Would the cord 0106, about half way down the right side of this page:

http://www.phonecoinc.com/category.asp?map=1&hhrl=home&group=misc&gorl=group&category=Jack

be suitable?  They're rather different to the cords we have here.

As for the dial cards, I want to order a few things from both Phoneco and Oldphoneworks so I'll order a pack of 10 of each shape, WE and AE, from Oldphoneworks; they're so cheap that it's not really worth printing them.

[Dan/Panther]

Scroll down the page to number 212. These word great on original line cords.
D/P

http://tinyurl.com/cg8nno

[bingster]

Would the cord 0106, about half way down the right side of this page ... be suitable?  They're rather different to the cords we have here.

That seems to be the correct cord.  It's difficult to tell with anything from phonecoinc because of the horrible pictures, but the lengths and material are correct for the 500, so I'd assume they're the right ones.  You might consider going for the 12 foot cord, rather than the 6 foot cord.  I've found the longer cords to be incredibly convenient, and one is no more correct than the other. 

[Stephen Furley]

I haven't got a new line cord yet, and last night my 500 totally died.  just to recap the situation as it is at the moment, there's a short, very thin line cord attached to the 'phone.  On the end of this is a modular jack, and plugged into this is a thin cord with a modular plug on each end.  The telephone was working when I received it, and I haven't changed any internal connections.  The fault turned out to be a bad connection in the modular jack attached to the end of the line cord, and having re-attached the red and green wires to this, the 'phone now works, but does not ring.  The Modular cord plugged into the jack attached to the line cord has just two conductors, whereas the line cord itself has three.  I've connected the red and green wires to the line, but what should I do with the yellow one?  Since there are only two conductors in the 'extension cable there would seem to be only three possible things  to do with the yellow wire:

Connect it to the red one.

Connect it to the green one.

Don't connect it to anything.

I've tried all three, and still can't get the 'phone to ring.

The connections inside the 'phone look the same as the ones in the pictures in the 'WE 500 suddenly stopped ringing/ no dial tone. How to fix?' thread, but since the 'phone was ringing, and I haven't touched anything here, I don't think the problem can be here.  The only wires I've touched are the three in the line cord, at the other end.  How should these three wires be connected to the two in the 'extension' cord?

I take it the sort of box thing inside the 'phone, with the terminals on top, contains the bell capacitor and the induction coil, since I can't see these components anywhere else.  This is all quite unlike the 'innards' of a British 'phone.  I'll have to write a piece comparing the two, but I'll wait until my AE80 arrives, so I can compare that one as well.

Am I correct in thinking that if I've got the polarity of the red and green wires wrong the 'phone would still work, including ringing?  This would be the case with most British 'phones, but it's probably unwise to make any assumptions.

[bingster]

The only wires I've touched are the three in the line cord, at the other end.  How should these three wires be connected to the two in the 'extension' cord?

Try connecting the yellow and the green together at the modular plug at the end of the cord. 

I take it the sort of box thing inside the 'phone, with the terminals on top, contains the bell capacitor and the induction coil, since I can't see these components anywhere else.  This is all quite unlike the 'innards' of a British 'phone. 

Exactly right.  Bell System phones and subsets (bell sets) previous to this had individual capacitors and induction coils.  The 500 saw them, and a couple other electronic devices, included in one unit.  The name for the new all-in-one box was "network."

Am I correct in thinking that if I've got the polarity of the red and green wires wrong the 'phone would still work, including ringing?

Right again.

[Stephen Furley]

Thanks, the wires in that cord are extremely thin and difficult to handle; maybe I just didn't get a good connection between them.  I think it's tome for bed now; I'll try again tomorrow.

I've just had a letter from Parcelforce inviting me to pay the tax due on a parcel from the US; this must be my AE80.  I will be busy at work tomorrow finishing up a few loose ends before I leave for a week.  On Wednesday I'm attending a seminar at Microsoft in Reading, about 50 km West of London, and on Thursday morning I'm on a coach up to Bradford, in Yorkshire, for the film festival.  This is at the place where they show Cinerama from time to time, including at the festival.  I'm coming home on Tuesday, and on Wednesday I'm going to telephonelines in Cheltenham, a place that seems to be rather similar to Phoneco, and also has a website that could do with a bit of work doing on it.  On Thursday next week I'll be back at work, but can probably pick up the AE80 in the evening.  This has a four prong plug already attached to it, so I should be able to just plug it in.

Didn't you have a station over there, in Philadelphia, called Reading Terminal?  I seem to remember walking past it.  The building is still there, but being used for something else now.

[bingster]

Reading Terminal info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Terminal

I just did a metric conversion, and it seems the line cord you have may be a non-standard cord.  The older, thin cord should be around 4.5MM.  At 2MM, it's no wonder your conductors are difficult to handle.  Below are a few photos of a standard thin cord.

[Stephen Furley]

Sorry, the red cord itself is more than 2mm, about 3.5 when I looked again, but certainly less than 400.  It's the extension cord plugged into it that's about 2mm.

I managed to collect the AE80 this morning before I left for Yorkshire, when I get back I'll write a detailed comparison between the AE 80 and WE 500 on the one side, and the 706 and 746 on the other.

Was the AE 80 not a very popular model?  There seem to be far less of them about than the WE 500.

[Dennis Markham]

Stephen the Automatic Electric were used by smaller Independent companies.  Western Electric phones were used by the Bell System which was much larger.  So that is my take on why you don't see as many of the A.E. phones compared to Western Electric---at least in my part of the Country (Michigan).

[Stephen Furley]

I had less than five minutes between arriving home with the AE 80 and having to leave to catch the train up to central London to get the coach for Yorkshire.  I did open it; it's a bit dirty, but otherwise looks ok.  It has a good line cord and four prong plug.  I plugged it in and got dial tone, but didn't have time to do any more.

[BDM]

Sorry, the red cord itself is more than 2mm, about 3.5 when I looked again, but certainly less than 400.  It's the extension cord plugged into it that's about 2mm.

I managed to collect the AE80 this morning before I left for Yorkshire, when I get back I'll write a detailed comparison between the AE 80 and WE 500 on the one side, and the 706 and 746 on the other.

Was the AE 80 not a very popular model?  There seem to be far less of them about than the WE 500.

I've done a comparison myself. I'd say the AE80 is every bit the 500s equal. Sound quality is exactly on par. Some say my 80 has slightly more transmitted volume when I do side by side comparisons. It's every bit as durable in the case and chassis. Easy to handle. I can't knock it.

As Dennis stated, they didn't produce the volume that W.E. churned out. Early on, AE sold most to independent Ma-Pa TelCo's, they also supplied their own systems, which became larger once GTE bought them out.

Lets also not forget, W.E. sold phones to independents. Independents weren't exclusively supplied by the smaller TelCo producers such as AE Kellogg and Stromberg-Carlson.

[Stephen Furley]

I've done a comparison myself. I'd say the AE80 is every bit the 500s equal. Sound quality is exactly on par. Some say my 80 has slightly more transmitted volume when I do side by side comparisons. It's every bit as durable in the case and chassis. Easy to handle. I can't knock it.

As Dennis stated, they didn't produce the volume that W.E. churned out. Early on, AE sold most to independent Ma-Pa TelCo's, they also supplied their own systems, which became larger once GTE bought them out.

Lets also not forget, W.E. sold phones to independents. Independents weren't exclusively supplied by the smaller TelCo producers such as AE Kellogg and Stromberg-Carlson.

I'm going to take a sidetrack from comparing the British and American 'phones for a moment, to compare the WE500 to the AE80.  I've just spent about an hour and a half taking both of them to bits and having a good look.  I had to dismantle the AE80 anyway to remove the remains of some sort of dark brown liquid which somebody seems to have spilled on it in the past; I suspect a potable liquid of some sort.

Having had the chance to have a good look at both of them, and while there's not a great deal of difference between them, I feel that where one does have an advantage over the other, in most cases the advantage goes the same way, and I have therefore selected my winner.  No doubt I will upset somebody here by my choice, but the winner is ... the AE80.

The reasons for my choice?  They're quite minor, the AE case feels slightly more robust than the WE one.  The AE is somewhat easier to work on, the wiring is easier to get at if you need to replace a cord for example.  I like the way that the the switch can be flipped down to put the 'phone 'on hook' when the cover is off.  I probably wouldn't have realised this if somebody else hadn't mentioned it.  I don't like the dial mounting on the WE; the way that you have to loosen two screws, and either turn the 'phone round or work wrong-handed, to remove the dial, and then when you re-mount it you have to reverse this procedure, and then when you put the case back on discover that you haven't got it at quite the right angle, so you have to remove the case again to adjust it.  I much prefer the mounting on the 706, there two lugs at the bottom fit into slots, and then a single screw at the top fits into a slot and is then tightened to hold it in place.  The AE dial mounting, where it just clips into place, is even easier, and feels quite positive.

All of these differences of course are from the wiewpoint of a collector, or engineer; they are of no concern to a normal user, where the differences are even more minor.  I think the WE handset cord is slightly better, and both seem to be slightly better than the British ones.  The dials feel quite different, I quite like the feel of the AE one, where the governor doesn't turn when you turn the dial forwards, or during the first few degrees of the return movement, giving a sort of 'snap' to the feel of it.  The action of the WE dial is more like that of the British one, though rather quieter, and with a smoother feel to it.  The design of the AE governor, with the angled shaft, is more like that on the British dial though.  I think both of the American dials are better than the British ones, which are often rather rattly.  I can't hear any difference between the two in terms of speech quality.  One last very minor point, I don't like the way the word 'Operator' is printed on the WE dial.  The way it runs 'uphill' makes it look like it's not sure if it's spelled forwards or backwards.  The 'O's actually seem to be zeros, compare the shape with that of the main 'O' and zero on the dial, and the spacing and alignment of the characters just look wrong.  So, not much in it, but the AE80 is the winner.

[BDM]

Interesting Stephen, and pretty much on par as to how I feel. But, the handset cords are another matter. They could have been replaced with later types, or after market types all together. One of my 80s came with a thick coil cord, as do many of my 500s. I also have cheap knock-offs that came on the 500s. So, in my opinion, handset cords can be anyones game.

Last, I believe the #5 W.E. dial was probably the best in design. #2 4 & 5 dials seem to hold up well over time. With small to no issues. While AE dials, and it's derivatives tend to get sticky, some seriously jammed if kept over time in a damp environment. But, in actual operation, I don't believe one has it over the other so to say. Except if feel and/or sound are of concern. The later W.E. #7 type dials(used in 500s) seem to have more issues than previous dials. While AE kept the same design for many years well into the 70s. It's a reliable workhorse no doubt.


On a side note, it would be interesting to compare the AE 40 against it's rival, the W.E. "H", or 302 mount. Thanks for the report back