This shop is within a mile of where I live. I do not know what these phones are, nor did I buy them, but one I am semi-tempted to.
First (not wanted by me) is a candlestick phone. It looks beautiful, and I didn't get a picture but the cord has a female modular jack spliced onto the end of it which is a good indication that it works.PXL_20221119_213943889-reduced.jpg
PXL_20221119_213949072-reduced.jpg
The second looks like some kind of novelty production phone. It is rotary but I don't know that it is necessarily a classic.
PXL_20221119_220504377-reduced.jpg
Finally, the one I was tempted to get. It's a wall phone, it looks rough like it is in need of some love, no idea if it even works but I have some doubts.
I decided to hold off until I at least know what it is, but it's a kitchen (or other) wall phone and this house doesn't have a wall phone and I would like it to. But even though I like the way I imagine this one could look, I do not know anything about it.
Any thoughts? Is the price fairish?
Thank you for any comments or identifications.
PXL_20221119_220422121-reduced.jpg PXL_20221119_220429646.jpeg pricetag.jpg
Okay the last phone looks like the wall-mount 300 type.
http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm
Usually, underneath or on the back, the model number and year of phone will be stamped. Easy enough to pop outside the store and do a quick lookup on the auction site and see what similar are selling for. One can then pop back into the store and buy or take a chance they will be there next visit.
The "French" phone looks like a "French Continental." These and similar phones were mass produced in the 1970s and 80s. Radio Shack even sold them!
https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1980_radioshack_catalog.html?fb3d-page=147
They are not my cup of tea, but if I wanted one, I would not pay $95.00 for one, especially one with such discoloration of the plastic. They can be found on eBay for less money and in better condition. Just search "French Telephone," and you will find lots of them.
The wall phone looks like a 354. I am not sure about the price. $70.00 seems a little bit high, but not outrageous. You might try offering them less, say $50.00, and see if they accept.
Quote from: 3463319 on November 19, 2022, 09:55:41 PM...https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1980_radioshack_catalog.html?fb3d-page=147
Flicking through those pages was fun. Thanks for the link.
:)
You should be able to do much better on price any of those phones.
Larry
Once cleaned, polished and adjusted the prices are reasonable.
Quote from: 3463319 on November 19, 2022, 09:55:41 PM...I am not sure about the price...
It's not that they are expensive, sometimes the work, finding rare parts or it's a rare phone and the polishing, it all makes it cost what it costs.
Red telephones, for example, are becoming rare and are in demand in some parts of the world because they are collectable. ;)
The candlestick is not old.
I bought the phone today and did get some off because it has dents in the top and bottom, you don't see them when looking at the phone head-on so I'm not that worried about it.
Everything is there, everything with a date I can see is 8-54. It looks like the dial was replaced at some point because from the inside, the dialer and screws do not look as old.
The dialer works but it is a little sticky if it hasn't been dialed. Dial 0 and let it run, and then it dials everything appropriately - so that needs to be cleaned and lubed.
The handset cord needs to be replaced. I don't know if the 101B coil gets hot but the white (slate?) handset wire is melted right where it passes the coil. Also it looks like there is supposed to be a handset cord guide right where it exits the phone to prevent it from being pinched when closing the case that is missing.
The ringer looks good but not tested, other than manually causing it to strike - it moves freely.
The handset is heavy. I like that. The cap for earpiece comes off with effort and it all looks good, I haven't yet gotten the cap for mouthpiece off and I will have to because I believe that has to come off to replace the cord.
I think it's a good phone to work on as my first project, I was looking for a black 500CD but I think this one is good, it doesn't look too complex. Hardest thing will be crawling around in the attic to drop a line where we want it... :P Yes, it will be used.
Only that wall phone is old. The other two are from the 70s or 80s.
Mike
Which one did you get? I am assuming from your description of a 101B coil it was the 354 wall phone. Good catch. I like those models. It is the wall version of the 302. The easiest way to get off stuck handset caps is a strap wrench. We need pictures! Lots of them, inside & out.
Nothing inside the phone should ever become hot. If a wire looks melted, it might just have been flattened overt time from being pressed between things.
It shouldn't be difficult to make the phone work. If the dial is sticky, spraying the moving parts with electronic contact cleaner will likely help. You may need to adjust the tension spring on the ringer to make it ring properly.
Larry
QuoteI don't know if the 101B coil gets hot but the white (slate?) handset wire is melted right where it passes the coil.
Pictures would help diagnose the issue but I doubt melted (without seeing pictures of the wire in question), more likely the rubber used to cover the stranded wire had hardened over time and is crumbling off of the stranded wire when moved.
Images are needed.
Quote from: AliceWonder on November 20, 2022, 08:58:19 PMI bought the phone today and did get some off because it has dents in the top and bottom...
As above. Photos need attaching.
The 354 wall phone?
Dents in the
Bakelite plastic?
Quote...the dialer and screws...
'Dial', not 'Dialer'.
Those phones are plastic. Only the handset and caps are bakelite.
Larry
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 21, 2022, 10:29:01 AMThose phones are plastic. Only the handset and caps are bakelite.
Thanks Larry. Edited.
:)
The 384 is disassembled (yes I took wiring notes), I managed to get the stuck cover of the mouth-piece off by using a combination of WD-40 and a strap wrench (the kind used to change oil filters in a car). I wonder if I'm the first to open it since 1954?
Everything date matches, only one component with a date (the receiver) isn't from 1954 and that's from 1951.
I'll post some pictures later as I start to work on it. I do need to replace the handset cord and I will be servicing the dial (note to self - not the dialer...) including a new overlay but I think everything else just needs cleaning.
I need to test the two capacitors in the 195A - my current multimeter doesn't do that so I'll borrow one. Part of me wonders if it might be better to just buy modern film capacitors of similar specification, 1954 was a long time ago.
But anyway it's apart, took me a few head scratches to figure out the hook switch but I did. I'll start a new thread as I do my first phone restoration but it will take time mainly because I'm not in too much of a rush.
Happy thanksgiving!
Quote from: AliceWonder on November 20, 2022, 08:58:19 PM...The dialer works but it is a little sticky if it hasn't been dialed. Dial 0 and let it run, and then it dials everything appropriately - so that needs to be cleaned and lubed.[/b]
Good evening, often, when it's been decades since these phones have not been used, the dial may be frozen a little (stuck at some point), personally, I completely disassemble the dial and I clean each part and I reassemble it and lubricate it and I adjust the 'governor'. For the '500 and 554' models, it's relatively easy to disassemble and reassemble with care. Once done, you'll be happy;)
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 21, 2022, 10:29:01 AMThose phones are plastic. Only the handset and caps are bakelite.
Larry
Absolutely ..
Quote from: AliceWonder on November 21, 2022, 07:08:47 PMI need to test the two capacitors in the 195A - my current multimeter doesn't do that so I'll borrow one. Part of me wonders if it might be better to just buy modern film capacitors of similar specification, 1954 was a long time ago.
Good evening, if you change them, finally, if,... do not put anything at the bottom of the values inscribed on the capacitors. You have two choices, but the first is always better.
1 - you install capacitors of the same value.
2 - you install capacitors slightly higher than those already there. But that is in principle on audio-video devices, on telephones, I don't really know. You have to ask experts :D
It is very unlikely that you will need to replace the capacitors. They do occasionally go bad, but not often. If they are bad, you will find out when trying to use the phone, and you can replace them at that time.
You can find a wiring diagram for the phone here: link (http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/300-series/2305-300-series-wall-telephones-354-tl).
Larry
Quote from: Contempra on November 21, 2022, 09:45:30 PM... do not put anything at the bottom of the values inscribed on the capacitors. You have two choices, but the first is always better.
1 - you install capacitors of the same value.
2 - you install capacitors slightly higher than those already there. But that is in principle on audio-video devices, on telephones, I don't really know. You have to ask experts :D
In a April 29, 1977 AT&T publication I only have one page screenshot of, it says 2.0uF is min and 2.5uF is maximum for Red/Black pair, 0.5uF is minimum and 0.63uF is max for Yellow and Slate pair, which I believe is for the ringer. 500V DC as the test voltage.
So yeah, little bit bigger than the 2uF and 0.5uF that most people cite for it.
But I looked at digikey and it looks like the chip supply issues are still having an impact, options in stock are slim and prices are high. Might be interesting to experiment in the future though with modern replacements.
-=-
For the dial I think I may chicken out and just buy a restored one, pricey but then I can slowly learn the process with mine and not have it delay the other stuff.
QuoteBut I looked at digikey and it looks like the chip supply issues are still having an impact, options in stock are slim and prices are high.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223903733817
Before you started taking the phone apart did you try calling out, did you try calling in?
What makes you think it needs new capacitors?
What makes you think you need a new dial?
'overlay'?
I recommended you attach (not insert) photos to this thread. It will help us better help you. We are running blind here.
There should be no need to replace the capacitors or dial. The capacitors in these phones are good 98+% of the time, and the dials are almost always usable unless someone has removed or damaged parts. They can be cleaned and made to work smoothly.
Larry
I would agree, I have restored quite a few phones and never had to replace a capacitor. Remember when these were made the phone company owned them and were responsible for repairs so they used good products.
Even when they don't check good on a component tester, they can still do their job in the phone. I did not have to throw away a single one so far.
I know in old radios capacitors are a frequent issue or even safety hazard but not in telephones.
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 22, 2022, 06:11:10 AMThere should be no need to replace the capacitors or dial. The capacitors in these phones are good 98+% of the time, and the dials are almost always usable unless someone has removed or damaged parts. They can be cleaned and made to work smoothly.
Larry
As far as I'm concerned, that's what I do. I try to see if it works first and if so, then I clean it completely and I oil the dial and I leave it in its own juice. Otherwise, I take it apart, clean and lubricate what needs to be cleaned and try everything again. The most complex are the touch-tone dials. It's quite an art to disassemble and reassemble everything without making a mistake :)
Quote from: HarrySmith on November 22, 2022, 07:41:25 AMI would agree, I have restored quite a few phones and never had to replace a capacitor. Remember when these were made the phone company owned them and were responsible for repairs so they used good products.
Absolutely . they installed quality parts unlike the ch*****. It was not even comparable!
Quote from: countryman on November 22, 2022, 08:09:55 AMEven when they don't check good on a component tester, they can still do their job in the phone. I did not have to throw away a single one so far.
I know in old radios capacitors are a frequent issue or even safety hazard but not in telephones.
I agree for Radio/TV , because people were running these devices from morning to night, whereas a phone rarely did. we picked up 5-10 minutes but could be closed all day long.
I had one 302 with a bad capacitor. I replaced it with one from a 302 parts phone for authenticity. But 95% of the caps in 302s have been fine.
Quote from: TelePlay on November 22, 2022, 04:46:53 AMhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/223903733817
Those are visually similar to Vishay capacitors I was looking at that are bulk purchase only and/or out stock but unless I can see the specs I wouldn't want to buy them.
But anyway no, I don't know mine is bad and it is probably good and perhaps I am biased by other old electronics where the caps went bad but old caps are a worry for me. Even if the phone still rings, if the capacitor is below design spec will it have the intended ring?
Normally caps are cheap and easy to find if you have the specs so it's not wrong IMHO to replace them just as a matter of course unless building something where the point is OEM.
The way this thread seems to be going, I have a feeling my lack of social skills and understanding of social rules and constructs is becoming an issue.
I didn't intend to express a request for advice on replacing the capacitor, I was dumping my thought process. And perhaps replacing it isn't needed most of the time but if I do decide to do so (and I haven't decided to yet) I don't see how it is wrong to replace 50+ year old capacitors just out of a matter of general practice.
Perhaps with phones by Western Electric it really isn't an issue but with many things it is. Something old can work just fine when brought back into service and two weeks later it stops working just fine all because old caps were left in place.
Perhaps it may help you better understand telephones to do a few searches using the 'search' option above. Type in any telephone related key word you have an interest in. 'Capacitors' for example offers over 17 pages of reading up, 'Dial Repair' offers over 31 pages of reading up.
Regarding photos, they help enormously. As they say; 'no photos, it didn't happen'.
I have restored a large number of radios, and there, replacing capacitors is very common because of the higher voltages involved and the nature of how radios work. This is not the case with telephones where I have only had to replace capacitors a handful of times. There are generally two capacitors in a phone, often only one in some European designs, and there are almost always good, but if they are bad, you will likely know quickly. If the capacitor in the ringer circuit is bad, your phone may not ring, or it may act as if it is always off-hook. Otherwise, it will usually be fine. If the capacitor in the voice circuit is bad, you will likely notice a problem with the sound, but that is seldom the case. The voltages in the voice circuit are quite tiny, so the capacitor is unlikely to go bad.
The most important things with these phones is to make them look nice, enjoy them, and make your friends and visitors wonder about how crazy you are for having them in your home or office.
Larry
Quote from: AliceWonder on November 20, 2022, 08:58:19 PMI bought the phone today and did get some off because it has dents in the top and bottom, you don't see them when looking at the phone head-on so I'm not that worried about it.
Everything is there, everything with a date I can see is 8-54. It looks like the dial was replaced at some point
Very nice, congratulations for buying your first phone project! Regarding the price, timing and context are everything. This phone was near your home, so no worries about shipping damage or delays, and you supported a local dealer who may now be encouraged to offer more phones in the future. :D
QuoteYes, it will be used.
Awesome! I still need to (re)install a wall phone in my kitchen, too. Probably the same black 554 phone I have had in kitchens going back to about 1980.
Regarding your phone's dial, there is a man in (I think) Arizona who does highly-recommended dial refurbishment at moderate prices, if you get concerned about doing it yourself. With all of the great documentation and discussions on this forum, along with your radio or other experience, I think you will succeed doing it yourself. That is my plan for the slow-dialing Northern Electric Princess phone I have.
Quote from: ChrisW6ATV on December 02, 2022, 03:22:44 PMRegarding your phone's dial, there is a man in (I think) Arizona who does highly-recommended dial refurbishment at moderate prices, if you get concerned about doing it yourself. With all of the great documentation and discussions on this forum, along with your radio or other experience, I think you will succeed doing it yourself. That is my plan for the slow-dialing Northern Electric Princess phone I have.
Yes, I have his webpage bookmarked and will be contacting him probably after Christmas.
Quote from: ChrisW6ATV on December 02, 2022, 03:22:44 PM...there is a man in (I think) Arizona who does highly-recommended dial refurbishment...
Steve Hilsz
http://navysalvage.com/