Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Collector's Corner => Topic started by: Dave F on October 22, 2010, 11:05:25 PM

Title: Beautiful AE34 - smashed in Shipping :(
Post by: Dave F on October 22, 2010, 11:05:25 PM
I bought a lot of six phones, and they were all piled helter-skelter into a single shipping box with virtually no packing material.  Here's the AE34.  Lovely, I'm sure you all will agree.  Now, if I can just find a suitable place of honor to display it.....
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dennis Markham on October 22, 2010, 11:14:08 PM
Unbelievable.  What a shame.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: bingster on October 22, 2010, 11:54:53 PM
That's a heartbreaking sight.  :(
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: AE_Collector on October 23, 2010, 02:40:07 AM
Even worse...the 34 was the very rare type with the handhold built into the back of the case. I have only seen one of these before. Criminal.....

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: baldopeacock on October 23, 2010, 11:02:49 AM
was this an eBay buy?   Seller's response?
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: baldopeacock on October 23, 2010, 11:02:49 AM
was this an eBay buy?   Seller's response?

It was an eBay buy but, at that time, I just wasn't in the mood to go through a big hassle with the seller.  So, I never even said anything about it.  Interestingly, my WE ivory 305 also came from this lot (the real reason for the purchase), and it somehow miraculously arrived undamaged.  Still, a nice (and apparently rare) AE34 would have been a welcome addition as well.

See the ivory 305 here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3452.msg45798#msg45798
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: JorgeAmely on October 23, 2010, 01:34:38 PM
I have never seen an AE34 with a built-in lift. This phone survived 60-70 years and a careless seller did it under. Too bad.  >:(
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 01:43:35 PM
Speaking of AE34s, I'm not very knowledgeable.  How does this handset come apart?  These caps don't seem to unscrew.  Is there some trick to it?
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Adam on October 23, 2010, 02:02:04 PM
Picture it. 6 vintage phones knocking around in a dark, scary box.  They all knew who was the best of them all, the ivory 305.  All of a sudden, a big bump!  and without thinking, the AE34 jumps in the way of the damaging object and saves the ivory 305, damaging himself in the process.

The pictures of your broken AE34 are not sad.  Your AE34 is a HERO!

;D
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: AE_Collector on October 23, 2010, 02:15:47 PM
Quote from: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 01:43:35 PM
Speaking of AE34s, I'm not very knowledgeable.  How does this handset come apart?  These caps don't seem to unscrew.  Is there some trick to it?

The receiver bakelite cap including the metal band portion unscews from the handset much like a modern receiver cap. The metal pice in the centre of the cap with the hole through it actaually is a threaded insert that screws into the matal backing clamping the bakelite cap into place. The hole in it is hex shaped to allow a hex tool (made specifically for this purpose) to be inserted to loosen and reposition the wedge shaped cap in the optimal position to fit against your ear. This would vary depending if you hold the handset to your left or right side. None of this matters when trying to remove the cap from the handset though. Remove it as one piece.

The transmitter end is just the metal ring that unscrews off of the handset. Once it is off that releases the spit cup and transmitter element.

That said, both transmitter ring and the receiver are usually a bear to remove.  The threads are very fine on these. Sometimes a strap wrench will do it, otherwise the usual hot / cold treatment. The threads run in the normal direction. (clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen)

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: masstel on October 23, 2010, 02:02:04 PM
Picture it. 6 vintage phones knocking around in a dark, scary box.  They all knew who was the best of them all, the ivory 305.  All of a sudden, a big bump!  and without thinking, the AE34 jumps in the way of the damaging object and saves the ivory 305, damaging himself in the process.

The pictures of your broken AE34 are not sad.  Your AE34 is a HERO!

;D


Well, that's certainly taking lemons and making lemonade.  In a similar vein, a few years ago, my wife got into a pretty serious car accident.  Our classic 1983 Olds Cutlass Supreme was totalled when some 17 year old bimbo driving mommy's Lexus blew through a stop sign in West L.A.  Liz spent weeks going to rehab for back and neck problems.  She was pretty p**sed-off that our car got ruined, but I told her that the car gave up its life to save hers.  I guess you could look at this AE34 event in that same way.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 02:24:55 PM
Thanks Terry.  Being mostly a WE collector, I have been lax at learning the ins and outs of the AE products.

Dave
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: AE_Collector on October 23, 2010, 02:33:16 PM
Quote from: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 02:24:55 PM
Thanks Terry.  Being mostly a WE collector, I have been lax at learning the ins and outs of the AE products.

Dave


Dave:

I continued to add to the handset disassembly instructions above after you read and replied to my original statement so check back again for more info.

I'm looking at ther pieces of the 34 wondering if they could be glued back together into a somewhat reasonable example of this fairly rare AE 34 with built in lift.

I have two AE 34's. One has a crack running down one side from front to back and the other has a couple of small holes drilled in the back of it.

If you were parting it out, people are always looking for the ringer with the (unique to the AE 34) mounting bracket. Check with "wallphone" Doug Pav....I think he was looking for one awhile back.

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 02:47:02 PM
It might be possible to put the large pieces back together, but some sort of epoxy would be needed to fill in the misc gaps and cracks.  If so, then the case could be painted, and at least there would be some sort of evidence for this rare variety.  Don't worry, I'm not going to throw it into the trash!  I didn't realize that 34s were that uncommon. If you only have two, they can't be very easy to find.  Packed away somewhere I have one more AE34.  I haven't seen it in years but, as I recall, it is a non-dial set and is in pretty good condition.  Maybe I should try to dig it out and take some pictures.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: gpo706 on October 23, 2010, 02:48:31 PM
Again, sad that it lasted all those years and smashed in a stupidly packed box.

However, is it beyond redemption, would a glue and polish job make it whole again?
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: AE_Collector on October 23, 2010, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 02:47:02 PM

It might be possible to put the large pieces back together, but some sort of epoxy would be needed to fill in the misc gaps and cracks.  If so, then the case could be painted, and at least there would be some sort of evidence for this rare variety.  Don't worry, I'm not going to throw it into the trash!  I didn't realize that 34s were that uncommon. If you only have two, they can't be very easy to find.  Packed away somewhere I have one more AE34.  I haven't seen it in years but, as I recall, it is a non-dial set and is in pretty good condition.  Maybe I should try to dig it out and take some pictures.

Dave:

AE 34's were only made for about 5 years from 1934 to 1939 or so. But there almost always seems to be one on ebaY at any given time so they are not real difficult to find. However, the built in lift is pretty rare. I have always assumed that it was an idea they were playing with right at the time that the AE 40 replaced to 34. The inital AE 40's didn't have a lift bar either.

I have done VERY little restoration work but others have done all sorts of work with epoxies to fill cracks in bakelite. It probably wouldn't be perfect but miracles are possible. The missing pieces of the side vents would likely be the biggest problem.

That is a version of the AE 34 that I would like to have in my collection. I could trade you one of my two much less damaged 34's for it as is.

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: ae_collector on October 23, 2010, 03:01:36 PM
Dave:

That is a version of the AE 34 that I would like to have in my collection. I could trade you one of my two much less damaged 34's for it as is.

Terry

Terry,

I might think about trading it sometime down the line, but it could make a good experimental restoration project for me, so for now I will hang onto it.

Dave
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Adam on October 23, 2010, 10:06:47 PM
And by the way, why does this phone have a button in the middle of the cradle?  Is that the switch hook?  If it is, why isn't the switch hook in either side of the cradle where it normally is?  There seem to be round button holes there but no buttons sticking up...
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 23, 2010, 10:14:40 PM
Dave,

If you can restore this phone, you will be able restore anything, and we will all want to know how you did it or to restore our phones.  if you want to give up on it though, I could use an AE34 ringer, and condenser as well.


Masstel,

The hook switch plunger for the AE34 is in the middle of the cradle like it is for most of the 1930s phones.  Why there are round markings between each pair of cradle ears where one might expect plungers to be, I do not know.  On my AE34, those round marks are simple impressions in solid bakelite.  There are no holes for plungers there.  It could be that the molds were made to allow holes to be added at a later date.


Larry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Adam on October 23, 2010, 10:22:44 PM
Fascinating.  (As Mr. Spock would say, were he into vintage Terran communication instruments.)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 23, 2010, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on October 23, 2010, 10:14:40 PM
Dave,

If you can restore this phone, you will be able restore anything, and we will all want to know how you did it or to restore our phones.

Larry

I think it basically comes down to a little skill and a whole lot of time and determination (epoxy, sanding, more epoxy, more sanding...etc.)  When you see some of the amazing things that the movie prop people manage to put together, it seems that almost anything is possible.  I'll add this project to my to-do list.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Phonesrfun on October 24, 2010, 01:09:51 PM
You could always spend some money and pimp it out with a Ray Kotke cover.  No harm, no foul.  A new body, and a beautiful phone.  You can always re-do the broken one at your leisure.  (I don't work for or represent Ray in any way, but I have seen and used his reproduction covers, and they are good.)
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Doug Rose on October 24, 2010, 01:15:36 PM
Dave...is is a darn shame to see a beautiful phone end up like this. I am curious, you received this, and Ivory 305 and what else? This looked like one hell of an auction. I do agree, have Ray make you a clear Cover and you will be thrilled. Just a thought....Doug
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: AE_Collector on October 24, 2010, 01:55:59 PM
I don't think that I have seen a 34 made by Ray yet. Or am I wrong?

I think it is a ton of work to make the molds so he has to plan on making quite a number of cases of a particular type to make it worth while.

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: paul-f on October 24, 2010, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: ae_collector on October 24, 2010, 01:55:59 PM
I don't think that I have seen a 34 made by Ray yet. Or am I wrong?
Terry

I can't speak for whether you've seen one.  Check out his site to see photos.
  http://www.telephonecreations.com/
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Phonesrfun on October 24, 2010, 02:54:03 PM
I thought he had done an AE 34.  I have never seen one of those, but I have a couple of subset covers made by Ray.  Oh well, if he doesn't do a 34 then I guess it's back to square one.  It seems like a 34 would be a great one for Ray to make.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 24, 2010, 02:57:17 PM
Ray has two pictures of AE34s on his webpage.

Larry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: AE_Collector on October 24, 2010, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: paul-f on October 24, 2010, 02:15:34 PM
I can't speak for whether you've seen one.  Check out his site to see photos.
  http://www.telephonecreations.com/

Yup, I stand corrected. I knew he had done AE 1A's, 40's and 50's but hadn't seen any 34's (or 35's).

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: phone-sweep on October 24, 2010, 07:09:07 PM
Hello, all - my first post here.

Very interesting phone you have here - it is tragic how some ebayers "pack".  Can't tell you how many times this has happened to me (or the other dealie where imperfections - cracks, chips, etc. - are not shown or conveniently left out of the listing pictures).

Would love to see a pic or two of the grab area in back.....

Something different about your ringer..  I believe the bells should be upside down, not "cup up".  The ringer in 34's was unusual in that it was kind of at a 45º.  Like this:

http://www.planetcasemod.com/Phones/AE34/C/insides1.jpg

Like Terry suggested, use a strap wrench on the handset caps - preferrably rubber.  "Grab" the bands.... these are the parts that unscrew.  In the past, on tough ones,  I've had to put the handle in a vise (with blocks of wood in the jaws) so I could get a good grip.  If it still didn't want to budge, I've used a bit of penetrating oil in the crack between handle and band.  Let it soak in for a bit and try again.   Unfortunately, sometimes the spitcup is "welded" to the band and you end up breaking a small centering tab on the spitcup.  Not a major deal as the tab is internal and not visible and the spitcup can always be manually centered before tightening the next time.

I have some ideas for restoring your bakelite if you're interested but I'm a bit pressed for time at the moment.  Do you have all the little vent slots bars?   
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Doug Rose on October 24, 2010, 07:46:09 PM
Barry...welcome to the Forum. I watch your auctions all the time. You do positively outstanding work. Don't be a stranger, this is really a fun place....Doug
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: JorgeAmely on October 24, 2010, 07:57:53 PM
Some instructions on how to take the handset apart in the first few pictures of this album:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Amelyenator/AutomaticElectricModelAE34A3Telephone#

Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on October 24, 2010, 10:01:14 PM
Quote from: phone-sweep on October 24, 2010, 07:09:07 PM
Hello, all - my first post here.

Very interesting phone you have here - it is tragic how some ebayers "pack".  Can't tell you how many times this has happened to me (or the other dealie where imperfections - cracks, chips, etc. - are not shown or conveniently left out of the listing pictures).

Would love to see a pic or two of the grab area in back.....

Something different about your ringer..  I believe the bells should be upside down, not "cup up".  The ringer in 34's was unusual in that it was kind of at a 45º.  Like this:

http://www.planetcasemod.com/Phones/AE34/C/insides1.jpg

Like Terry suggested, use a strap wrench on the handset caps - preferrably rubber.  "Grab" the bands.... these are the parts that unscrew.  In the past, on tough ones,  I've had to put the handle in a vise (with blocks of wood in the jaws) so I could get a good grip.  If it still didn't want to budge, I've used a bit of penetrating oil in the crack between handle and band.  Let it soak in for a bit and try again.   Unfortunately, sometimes the spitcup is "welded" to the band and you end up breaking a small centering tab on the spitcup.  Not a major deal as the tab is internal and not visible and the spitcup can always be manually centered before tightening the next time.

I have some ideas for restoring your bakelite if you're interested but I'm a bit pressed for time at the moment.  Do you have all the little vent slots bars?   
I'll have to dig it out again and take some pictures of the handle area.  Not knowing much about early AE sets, I had no idea that this variation was particularly uncommon.  It makes a restoration attempt more tempting.  I may or may not have the broken pieces of the vent slots, I just don't know.  For the moment, let's assume that those pieces are gone.  Any ideas or tips for restoring Bakelite would be welcome.  But, as I mentioned earlier, this project would have to be added to a pretty long list of other things that need to be worked on first.
Quote from: Kidphone on October 24, 2010, 01:15:36 PM
Dave...is is a darn shame to see a beautiful phone end up like this. I am curious, you received this, and Ivory 305 and what else? This looked like one hell of an auction. I do agree, have Ray make you a clear Cover and you will be thrilled. Just a thought....Doug
Doug,

The lot consisted of the ivory 305, AE34, two AE40s, SC1243, and a red 702BM Princess phone -- all in one big claustrophobic box.  I still thank my lucky stars that the 305 was unhurt.

Dave
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: GG on February 13, 2011, 03:08:12 AM


That can almost certainly be saved. 

Whenever you receive phones that have been shipped, open the package carefully on a table where you will be able to clearly see anything that falls out of the packing material.  Inspect the phone closely for chips and other damage.  IF you see chips, then look through the packing material: the chipped pieces of plastic should be in there. 

In the present example, the ribs between the louvers on the side of the case may have gotten broken off this way and ended up loose in the packing. 

I've had this happen to me a few times.  One was a GPO 232 of the type mounted to its ringer box as a combined set.  The other was an Australia PMG 2+10 intercom in gray bakelite, otherwise identical to a GPO 2+10.  In each case there was serious breakage.  However I salvaged the broken bits of bakelite from the packaging and was able to use them in restoring the phone. 

The GPO 232 came out looking almost perfect.  The PMG 2+10 repair is detectable in the right lighting but otherwise pretty difficult to discern. 

Bakelite can be repaired using cyanoacrylate glues ("Krazy Glue").   First you have to very carefully clean off any dirt on the surfaces around the area to be repaired (a soft toothbrush and water with a little dish soap does wonders).  Then you have to be able and ready to hold the repair together manually while the glue sets.  Broken bakelite is very interesting in that when reassembled properly, the pieces fit together perfectly and the break becomes almost invisible, like a hairline crack that hasn't separated.  Now after you've glued the broken parts back together, use additional Krazy Glue along the seams to fill in the surfaces of what look like hairline cracks at the repair locations.   This needs to be done in a series of applications of small amounts so it does not run across the surface.  And let it dry and harden completely between applications: basically leave it overnight between applications (even though these glues are supposed to be instant-setting: in this case they will not be). 

Having done so, sand it down to be flush with the surface of the good plastic, using only very fine sandpapers.  Then buff it with a coarse and fine buffing compound, while buffing the rest of the housing.  You'd be surprised at how the repair just disappears, especially on black phones. 

If you get a damaged phone and unpack it carefully, and the broken bits are not in the packaging, then chances are the damage occurred prior to shipping, in which case ask for a full refund if you don't feel like  trying to fabricate material to fit into places that were broken out. 
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34
Post by: Dave F on February 13, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Thanks for your message of encouragement.  I have all the major pieces saved, but not every small fragment.  (If this ever happens again, I'll take better care to recover every tiny remnant.)  Anyway, trying to put this one back together again will be an interesting project for some future time.  Apparently, this particular variation of AE34 is quite rare, so it would probably be worth a try.  

Thanks again, Dave F.
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34 - smashed in Shipping :(
Post by: AE_Collector on December 04, 2012, 12:35:10 AM
Dave:

I knew exactly which thread you were pointing at when you referenced this discussion in Doug Rose's recent AE34 thread:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8084.0

This still makes me want to cry as I would love to have a 34 with the handhold.

Terry
Title: Re: Beautiful AE34 - smashed in Shipping :(
Post by: WesternElectricBen on December 19, 2012, 12:59:02 PM
What a shame. Sellers need to learn to ship, and shippers need to be more careful.