1908 AT&T Flange Sign On Ebay

[magicbrain]

https://tinyurl.com/ya285yqd

Anyone watching this sign on ebay?

Seller claims it to be authentic, but looks a bit suspect - Lots of "defects" in the circles around the logo & also in the lettering - anyway too rich for me at current price.

[Sargeguy]

I saw that one and I have been watching it. My initial impression was that someone is now making fake 11" flange signs.  The pattern looks identical to the fake 8" signs commonly seen on eBay and elsewhere.  I can't recall seeing any 11" fake flanges though, but that doesn't mean no one has tried.  The side of the flange looks fishy as well.  It is not enameled.  11" AT&T flanges usually go for about $200-250 in nice condition. 

[Key2871]

I bought one in way better condition, at an antique shop years ago for $50. That's a faaar cry from four hundred with paint spots and seemingly artificial destresing.

Ken

[Sargeguy]

I bought one in way better condition, at an antique shop years ago for $50. That's a faaar cry from four hundred with paint spots and seemingly artificial destresing.

Ken

Do you have any pictures?

[magicbrain]

I have the 18" version without a border.

[Key2871]

 I probably do, somewhere. But I don't know where to start looking. But this was twenty years ago or about..

[robert_m]

As far as i know, that appears to be a fake, As other suggest, AT&T signs / Bell System signs the flange would be ENAMELED.  I've never seen a real one not porclined enameled from Bell/ATT.  but have seen fake both ways.

Price it hard to say some people thing their stuff is gold plated, (as do i on some items), but fair for that if REAL in my view is 125.00 (todays market) Fake ones ZERO.

[Fabius]

It is worth the starting price, if real. I have never seen this 1908 Bell sign in 11x11 size. Of course that doesn't mean they don't exist. Tough to say from the pictures if it's real but it wouldn't surprise me if he gets his asking price or more.

I don't recognize the seller's ID. In looking at his past sales he has had some nice porcelain telephone signs and a few other telephone items in the past.

[Jim Stettler]

I don't know signs. This signs seems like repro's I have seen.
Since I don't know signs and it seems repro to me. I would  be a fool to buy it.

On the other hand it could be a real and very scarce sign and at a great  price.

It may be real/ it may not.Since  I am not  knowledgeable about signs I would let it go. 
Catch my drift?
Jim

[rdelius]

I would watch out on all Ebay signs. See if  the seller is selling lots of hard to get signs and multiples of the same sign.Are the located in India or S America? .These are warning signs. Over at the Old Gas forum, there is a list of sellers on ebay who sell fakes.

[rfkimba]

Hi Friends,

I believe this sign to be real, old and authentic.

First Greg states it looks like it has an "identical" pattern to fake 8" signs on Ebay. I asked Greg to post a picture of the sign that has an identical pattern for comparison.

The thinner font on this sign does resemble that of repro's. The B in Bell does line up with "Associated"  as it should as most repos don't.

Enamel defects such as bubbles  do occur. I have older signs with these although none with multiple large white bubble defects as this does.

The blue rings have defects and don't appear totally uniform in width as if someone shifted the metal stencil during production. I would expect these to be more uniform as  I have not seen these defects before.

The sellers ebay name is dmr3 and is not on any warning list on the oldgas.com  primarily petrolinea forum or on any warning list I've seen on the porcelain sign facebook groups I belong to .

I did pose to the seller numerous questions about the  signs defects:"

1 ) Does this sign have the thick heavy porcelain ledging one would expect from signs in the 1908 to 1921 era or is the surface smooth?
2 ) Does the outside part of the flange encrusted with plaster and dirt(?) enameled in blue and white porcelain or is it unpainted?
3 ) The unusually thin font of the lettering ATT and Assoc companies and Bell system makes one a bit suspect of the sign's early originality as repros on the market often have this thin font. Thoughts?
4 ) Has there been any touch up or repair of the sign in any way. Other than the multiple white surface porcelain defects on one side are there any other defects to point out?
5 ) There is an unusual amount of irregularity in the blue circles around the ATT logo compared to similiar signs of that era. Any thoughts.

I do appreciate you clarifying these points."

His response was a bit disappointing "his is a good original sign 1905 or sold as is as photoed. Mark Redmond"

I respect Mark as I have  purchased a number of high quality properly described signs from him . He is a long time phone and porcelain sign collector with much  more experience than I .   

[kleenax]

Hi Friends,

I believe this sign to be real, old and authentic.

First Greg states it looks like it has an "identical" pattern to fake 8" signs on Ebay. I asked Greg to post a picture of the sign that has an identical pattern for comparison.

The thinner font on this sign does resemble that of repro's. The B in Bell does line up with "Associated"  as it should as most repos don't.

Enamel defects such as bubbles  do occur. I have older signs with these although none with multiple large white bubble defects as this does.

The blue rings have defects and don't appear totally uniform in width as if someone shifted the metal stencil during production. I would expect these to be more uniform as  I have not seen these defects before.

The sellers ebay name is dmr3 and is not on any warning list on the oldgas.com  primarily petrolinea forum or on any warning list I've seen on the porcelain sign facebook groups I belong to .

I did pose to the seller numerous questions about the  signs defects:"

1 ) Does this sign have the thick heavy porcelain ledging one would expect from signs in the 1908 to 1921 era or is the surface smooth?
2 ) Does the outside part of the flange encrusted with plaster and dirt(?) enameled in blue and white porcelain or is it unpainted?
3 ) The unusually thin font of the lettering ATT and Assoc companies and Bell system makes one a bit suspect of the sign's early originality as repros on the market often have this thin font. Thoughts?
4 ) Has there been any touch up or repair of the sign in any way. Other than the multiple white surface porcelain defects on one side are there any other defects to point out?
5 ) There is an unusual amount of irregularity in the blue circles around the ATT logo compared to similiar signs of that era. Any thoughts.

I do appreciate you clarifying these points."

His response was a bit disappointing "his is a good original sign 1905 or sold as is as photoed. Mark Redmond"

I respect Mark as I have  purchased a number of high quality properly described signs from him . He is a long time phone and porcelain sign collector with much  more experience than I .   

https://tinyurl.com/ya285yqd

Anyone watching this sign on ebay?

Seller claims it to be authentic, but looks a bit suspect - Lots of "defects" in the circles around the logo & also in the lettering - anyway too rich for me at current price.

I just noticed that the seller of this sign is "DMR3". DMR3 is Mark Redmond, probably the most prolific Telephone sign collector in the world!  I know him very well personally, and if HE says that this sign is authentic, it sure as hell is!  He has some of the rarest telephone signs in the world in his collection!

[Sargeguy]

If Mark is selling it as legit I would be inclined to trust his judgement.  Here is a picture of one I sold a while back for comparison. 

[Sargeguy]

Here is an eBay fake.  The similarities are fatter letters on the bell and thinner letters around the circle.  The difference is subtle but noticeable. On common fakes and on Mark's sign the letters have a crowded appearance and almost "bleed" into each other.  The absence of enameling on the flange and the sloppiness of the white border makes me suspect it might have been a production sample or prototype of some sort.  It could have been from a manufacturer that didn't get the big contract. A number of manufacturers produced early signs, some were better quality than others.
+

[Fabius]

If Mark is selling it as legit I would be inclined to trust his judgement.  Here is a picture of one I sold a while back for comparison.

Is the top one also 11x11? Notice one has the thin boarder and the other has the wider one.