Wiring Leich phone with mini network, missing its red wire

[RotoTech99]

Dear CRPF :

Hello, I'm preparing to install a mini network in my Leich 90.

It has almost all of the leads except for the RED lead...

I've found a picture of how Phoneco does it that I'll have to get some help figuring it out from them, but since my mini network does not have the RED lead, how can I work around that?

Pic. attached below of how Phoneco did it.

The only difference should be I will have to mount my mini network and warbler on the baseplate.

Can CRPF please give me some advice and help.

I'll gladly thank you all assistance.

Rototech99

[markosjal]

Is this an AE mini Network from a Styleline?

Have you seen this?

https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams-technical-library/automatic-electric-1/1919-ae-mini-networks-wdiagram-tl/file


I suspect you ask this question because you have an AE type dial (as many Leitches are)

Do you have a dial that has contacts that open when dialing or close when dialing?

Do it this way....

Wire and test according to the "No Dial" diagram (also no red wire)

Test and make sure it works without dial.

Then you then need to connect the Pulse dial contacts in series with the hookswitch contacts

Test that you can dial and you will hear LOUD POPS when dialing

The last remaining part depends on your dial and the remaining (non pulse contacts)

It is either

A) Normally open and closes when dialing 
or
B) Normally closed and opens when dialing

If A it would wire across the receiver contacts effectively shunting the receiver when dialing

If B, it would wire in series with one of the receiver contacts

See diagram attached

Then Test AGAIN and you should dial without LOUD POPS

Lastly you should also connect the second set of hookswitch contacts This would be the set that Makes Last and breaks first as seen in the diagram. This prevents a loud POP when taking it off hook, as it disconnects the receiver while the line is connecting / reconnecting

[markosjal]

Hey it must be your lucky day. I went and searched for a Spark suppression resistor/cap that I knew I had posted something about somewhere here and found this thread

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.msg204713#msg204713

You will note that on that diagram, the red and black are tied together. I suspect they are ultimately connected to the same point on the other end too.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Markosjal:

Yes, my network is from a AE Styleline.

On my AE 24A36 dial,the shunt contacts close when dialing.

You mentioned connecting the second set of hookswitch contacts... Where should I connect those, please?

Also, my hookswitch has 5 wires, what do I do there?

Also, I'm using the terminal strip that the set originally had, can I make the receiver and transmitter connections there?

Thank you for your earlier replies and Please let me know.

Rototech99

[RotoTech99]

Dear Markosjal & CRPF:

Here are the colors of my hookswitch leads on my 5 wire hookswitch, and the contacts they are with..

I'm still having difficulty grasping what you mean, so I thought adding some pics would help you understand better what I'm asking about, and let you provide a BETTER reply I can use to do what I need.

The second pic shows my dial and terminal strip that I want to make part of my connections to.

1. Bottom set of hookswitch contacts (2): GREEN, YELLOW

2. Upper set of contacts (3):
RED, WHITE, BROWN

[markosjal]

RotoTech,

Did you see my annotated attachment? I took the "no Dial" AE Mini network diagram with my notes on it. That post also says the process I would use to get it up and running. Note the testing between each step.

To see where the second set of hookswitch contacts connects look at my note and the contacts I added top/center of that diagram.

As for the Dial.....
The contacts that close when dialing (NOT PULSE) would connect Across the receiver as indicated in "A" on my hand written notes on the "No dial" diagram

As for your 5 wire hookswitch I do have one of those here I could disassemble, but you need two sets of isolated contacts. You need to watch the leafs of those contacts and see what order they open and close in . Most always there is a set that breaks first (when hung up and Makes Last(when take off hook) This set you would put in series with the receiver element. This is in order to effectively "mute" the receiver when going on or off hook to save from loud pops. Sometimes a fifth wire was used for a bell, to physically disconnect it. Looking at the diagram here https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/technical-library/leich-1/1985-common-battery-telephones-leich-90-l90-tl-wiring/file that does not appear to be the case but it looks like one contact makes or shunts when the phone is hung up. This is the one you do not need. 

Hanging up the phone causes, in the following order
1) Ear element to be disconnected
2) Line to be broken


Taking the phone off hook causes, in the following order
1) line to engage
2 Ear element to be connected

You understand above what should happen in what order? This is only to avoid loud pops. The same rule applies to dials.  With dials, some are different, like yours in this case, and shorts across the receiver (AE) instead of breaking the circuit to it (WE).
 

oh and get rid of that jumper strap on the dial it can potentially cause problems.

[RotoTech99]

Hi, Markosjal:

Attached is a picture of the different network similar to what Phoneco used in their Fatboy phones which I have managed to fit In my Leich phone.

I tried the bottom pair of hookswitch leads without much luck, so I'm about to try the 3 upper switchhook leads;since there are 3 I'm not sure which to use.which do you think I should try?

The warbler I tried is no good I think, so I'll leave it out and figure out a ringer later.

I'm thinking of retrying the first pair, but I'd like to hear your thoughts first.

Please let me know.
Rototech99

[markosjal]

I think you need to LOOK at the hookswtich contacts to determine which ones you need, as I said earlier in this thread. It is also probable that they are dirty and may not work , which is another reason you need to look at them and see what they should be doing that maybe they are not doing.

I can not help much with the other (unknown) network. I think you should stick with the known Mini network that you already have the diagram that I customized for you, that you seem unable to see.

I already gave you a pretty complete diagram and told you how and what I would do and now you want to ignore all that change out the network and get me to give you new advice? if you want my help then post here that you have wired it up as "No dial" from the "no Dial" mini network diagram and we can continue from there. Not looking to start over with a new network, especially when it seems you are unable to look at the hookswtich contacts, instead you prefer I "guess" from afar, or disassemble a similar phone that may have different wire colors anyway.

I put some time and effort into this thread already if you want to keep changing the variables and ignoring my advice. I'll just give up then.

BTW I can almost see from the pics the contacts on the hookswitch to maybe tell which wire you may not need but the contacts are covered by a wire, making it impossible. It would however not tell me which breaks first and makes last, which is what you need to look to determine

[RotoTech99]

Dear Markosjal:

I've attached a better picture of the hookswitch for you...

According to the diagram the three contacts are reading left to right WHITE, RED, & BROWN.

The other two contacts are YELLOW & GREEN.

My switchhook leads are age discolored.

I've added a second Pic to help you with my question.

BTW: The white lead was connected to the induction coil according to the diagram.

White is supposed to be the 1st wire on the three contacts.

Im still open to your idea for wiring the mini network, but can you please identify which leads are the first set, and second set by their colors, it would help immensely.

Rototech99
Thank you

[markosjal]

You need to look at that hookswitch and decide which set of contacts Makes last and breaks first and visa versa. It is impossible for me to tell from photos. It would be a "best guess" without looking at it directly

You do not NEED to know this to wire according to step 1 but you will still need to determine which wire you do not need so it is best to identify  hookswich  now.


I do not have enough info to do anything more then guess. Had you taken three minutes to look at the contacts I would not be writing this same thing again that is  to look at the contacts.

Good luck on your endeavor I wish I could help but it truly seems you do not want help, so this is my last post on this thread. I have officially now spent more time on these message than it would have taken me to restore the phone.