Decoding metal 302 housings

[unbeldi]

When you say

        Well ... the typical progression seen on 300-series housings and others is usually  month, day, year, "shift"

I assume you are talking about plastic housings only, and not metal housings, correct?

Since the last digit is either a 1, 2 or 3, I suspect they could indicate the shift during which the housing was produced.

I don't think that WE was stamping out housings around the clock, the number probably indicates the mold, or the plant, or something like that.  This is true for plastic housings as well, which also have a number 1-3.

I don't mean to argue, but the more I think about this, the more I lean toward disagreeing with you, Sargeguy. Since it's now fairly certain that the other characters indicate the month and day, it's only natural that the final character should also have something to do with time. I can't think of any unit of time besides a continuously-operating factory's daily shift schedule that would neatly divide into three parts. Also, it seems logical to have the progression be from larger to smaller units of time. Month-Day-Shift just works out very neatly.

Well ... the typical progression seen on 300-series housings and others is usually month, day, year, "shift".  The year in there certainly destroys your notion of logical sequences. There is nothing logical or even elegant about American writing of dates anyhow.

Not that I disagree with the notion of the last part being a shift, it just remains an unsolved mystery.

Yes, certainly... 300- and 500-series plastic housings. Your discovery was a nice piece of detective work to extend the dating to the metal housings.

I realize that this threat was originally about metal housings, but narrow generalizations or 'explanations' are dangerous and misleading.
The idea that the last digit is a shift identifier is very logical, but I am surprised that it hasn't been confirmed by someone who is still alive and worked in the WECo plants.

[Scotophor]

One more for this list.

Picked up a metal 302 with a 5H dial from an antique mall for $35. The handset, line cord and ringer have been replaced over time but the base, ringer and coil make it a 9/41 302. It's an H-1 mount with 3 horizontal lines in vermillion after the "H-1."

Base dated 9-41
Coil dated III-41
5H dial dated III-41

The metal shell in stamped next to the H-1 with "I 11 3," code for 9/11/41 or 9/1/41, 3rd shift, depending on the resolution of the year-no year discussion.

How sure are you that the middle two characters are "11"? As seen above, with the "A" first reported as an "L", the characters were not necessarily stamped perfectly; if a stamp/punch was not quite square to the housing, one side or another of a character could be marked very faintly, or even not at all. I suspect that your "11" may really be a "41", and that the marking would thus most likely translate as "first quarter, 1941, 3rd shift" (subject to revision, if we ever learn definitively what the final character means).

[TelePlay]

How sure are you that the middle two characters are "11"?  . . . I suspect that your "11" may really be a "41", and that the marking would thus most likely translate as "first quarter, 1941, 3rd shift."

This is what I see, both with my 35x loupe and my high mag USB digital microscope made aware to us some time ago by DavePEI and currently found in a wide variety starting at $21 or so BIN on eBay with free shipping or maybe even less if you want to bid on one in an open auction listing.

[TelePlay]

Embossing the image shows no center strike marks outside or adjacent to the markings and dead center marks on each character which would seem to indicate that these marks are 3 vertical lines and the number "3"

[BDM]

darn, USB scope I need one 

[poplar1]

A.J., if the first letter I does indicate first quarter (as it does on many items such as induction coils), then what quarter is indicated by the other letters A through L that have been observed?

If the next one- or two-digit number indicates a year, then why are all the others found between 1 and 30, which don't correlate with the years of manufacture of metal housings --1936-1946?

One more for this list.

Picked up a metal 302 with a 5H dial from an antique mall for $35. The handset, line cord and ringer have been replaced over time but the base, ringer and coil make it a 9/41 302. It's an H-1 mount with 3 horizontal lines in vermillion after the "H-1."

Base dated 9-41
Coil dated III-41
5H dial dated III-41

The metal shell in stamped next to the H-1 with "I 11 3," code for 9/11/41 or 9/1/41, 3rd shift, depending on the resolution of the year-no year discussion.

How sure are you that the middle two characters are "11"? As seen above, with the "A" first reported as an "L", the characters were not necessarily stamped perfectly; if a stamp/punch was not quite square to the housing, one side or another of a character could be marked very faintly, or even not at all. I suspect that your "11" may really be a "41", and that the marking would thus most likely translate as "first quarter, 1941, 3rd shift" (subject to revision, if we ever learn definitively what the final character means).

[TelePlay]

Just opened up a metal 302 that was buried deep in my basement for some time. The base was stamped 1/42, the coil I 42 and the ringer 1/42. Didn't take out the dial.

The metal case had an "A8 1" stamped into it. It is an H mount setup. Embossing the stamp showed no signs of anything other than this code.

[Scotophor]

A.J., if the first letter I does indicate first quarter (as it does on many items such as induction coils), then what quarter is indicated by the other letters A through L that have been observed?

If the next one- or two-digit number indicates a year, then why are all the others found between 1 and 30, which don't correlate with the years of manufacture of metal housings --1936-1946?

I forgot that "I", besides being used as Roman numeral "one" for first quarter, is also included in the range "A"-"L" which were used for the month of the year, in a later version of WE's date coding system. I believe that if a day-of-month is included, the "I" must be the month and not the quarter, so I must have been mistaken in my previous post. Sorry for the confusion. One obvious point of confusion is that neither the "I" nor the "11" characters have serifs or other characteristics to distinguish them, other than the first being significantly taller. So your marking is probably as you stated previously; month, day, shift(?) - "I"=September (11th, 3rd shift). We can only assume that the housing and base are from the same year, 1941.

[TelePlay]

So your marking is probably as you stated previously; month, day, shift(?) - "I"=September (11th, 3rd shift). We can only assume that the housing and base are from the same year, 1941.

As reported earlier, http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11389.msg128855#msg128855.

[Greg G.]

Yes, that C252 is a date, meaning March 25, in the year of manufacture which has to be inferred from other markings. We don't know what the last digit is, but it is always found to be 1, 2, or 3, just like on later housings. Some collectors believe it to be a shift, but we don't seem to have any confirmation. I believe not, because I don't think they worked in multiple shifts around the clock to make telephones. I found one reference which appeared to state that something like shifts were introduced much later for a special occasion, and I have to find that reference again.

Based on the observations of these marks, your housing was most likely made in 1938, because by late 1938, the housing type was ink-stamped inside.  See here for discussion: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11389.0

Metal housing I just bought.  No other parts to give clues.

Ok, I'm confused about the date.  If the inside stamp means 1925, that seems to be a little early for 302s, metal or otherwise?

[Southernphoneman]

This is a 302 that I just sold to someone and there are a bunch of numbers inside this plastic 302 housing, I know that the 9/41 is the date of manufacture but what about the rest of them, thank you.

[unbeldi]

Yes, that C252 is a date, meaning March 25, in the year of manufacture which has to be inferred from other markings. We don't know what the last digit is, but it is always found to be 1, 2, or 3, just like on later housings. Some collectors believe it to be a shift, but we don't seem to have any confirmation. I believe not, because I don't think they worked in multiple shifts around the clock to make telephones. I found one reference which appeared to state that something like shifts were introduced much later for a special occasion, and I have to find that reference again.

Based on the observations of these marks, your housing was most likely made in 1938, because by late 1938, the housing type was ink-stamped inside.  See here for discussion: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11389.0

Metal housing I just bought.  No other parts to give clues.

Ok, I'm confused about the date.  If the inside stamp means 1925, that seems to be a little early for 302s, metal or otherwise?

I think I just explained the date.  Not 1925, but  March (C) 25, 1938.

[unbeldi]

There are a bunch of numbers inside this plastic 302 housing, I know that the 9/41 is the date of manufacture but what about the rest of them, thank you.

1941 is year the black plastic housings were introduced, at least in quantity.  Some color plastic housings have been found dated 1940.

During the first year, until late 1941, the dates were stamped with these large vermillion-ink stamps inside the housing on that slope behind the cradle. In late 1941 a smaller stamp, but in the same format, was applied to the front edge.   We don't know what the extra numbers mean, after the year.
In 1942 manufacturing of telephones was discontinued because of the war.

[Mr. Bones]

1941 is year the black plastic housings were introduced, at least in quantity.  Some color plastic housings have been found dated 1940.

Super nice, relatively rare early tenite 302! Good job, that. I have a few '46 metals, but no '41 plastic for my WWII collection, as of yet.

In 1942 manufacturing of telephones was discontinued because of the war.

     Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but I do believe it to be more historically accurate to state that manufacturing of consumer telephones was discontinued for the duration of WWII.

     Certainly, the U.S. military,  our Allies, defense industries, etc., etc., were able to acquire any and all telephonic equipment that was deemed essential to the war effort.

Best regards!

[unbeldi]

1941 is year the black plastic housings were introduced, at least in quantity.  Some color plastic housings have been found dated 1940.

Super nice, relatively rare early tenite 302! Good job, that. I have a few '46 metals, but no '41 plastic for my WWII collection, as of yet.

In 1942 manufacturing of telephones was discontinued because of the war.

     Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but I do believe it to be more historically accurate to state that manufacturing of consumer telephones was discontinued for the duration of WWII.

     Certainly, the U.S. military,  our Allies, defense industries, etc., etc., were able to acquire any and all telephonic equipment that was deemed essential to the war effort.

Best regards!

Well, it is not so clear. It is reasonable to assume that telephones were available for military distribution, but I would think the quantity needed would be such that a single, or very few, month of regular production would satisfy the entire need for the war, when it comes to these type of sets.  The signaling corps used phones from the other manufacturers as well, and they had their own specifications, for examples they used special AE dials even on WECo sets. It does not seem efficient that multiple manufacturers were allowed to continue to make telephones. The expertise of Western Electric and Bell Labs, could be and was redirected to other strategic products.

The Bell System history book on the topic (National Service in War and Peace, 1978) is silent on the topic.

It appears to me that the 302 production facilities were dismantled at Hawthorne to make room for other war gear, because in 1944 Western Electric bought a factory in St. Paul to restart telephone manufacturing by early 1945.  It appears it took some time for Hawthorne to get online again.

The use of materials was dictated by the WPB, the War Production Board, which was established in early 1942 by the US government, and soon after WECo had to seize production. The date of that was recorded in a BSP.