Other Manufacturers besides the 800 Pound Gorilla (WECo)

[Lewes2]

OK, I am almost graduating from Newbie to   . . . ah . . . novice.  But I have another beginner's question:

Among all the old, collectible, antique phones out there, Western Electric appears to be the 800 pound gorilla.  Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

So after WE, what manufacturer produced the most phones, in the U.S.  Again, from reading this forum, I would guess it's AE (Automatic Electric?).  Maybe Stromberg Carlson?  What?  I just see more references and questions about AE than phones from other manufacturers (after WE, of course). 

So, curious to know how the group compares WE phones with AE and SC phones, say for the period 1920s through the 1950s.  (or whatever is reasonable).  Technically and aesthetically?   Some of the AEs I've seen on this site are really nice looking and different. 

With the exception of the first phone I purchased in August for my wife's birthday, an orange SC 500, all the phones I've bought since have been WEs.

Chuck

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I would have to say either Automatic Electric or Kellogg. It also depends on what timeframe you're talking about. Here's my take on it.

From the Turn of the Century until the late 1940s, I think Kellogg made the most phones (like wood wall phones, Masterphones, Redbars, etc.), but they declined right around the '50s, when the WE 500 took off in sales.

Meanwhile, Automatic Electric wasn't very successful at phone manufacturing until the mid-forties, when the 40 model seemed to take off in popularity, and that fame continued on to the 80.

AE didn't do well after The Breakup in '83, and Kellogg (at the time ITT) once again gained popularity. It continued on to be somewhat popular known as Cortelco, which still manufactures and sells the 2500 and 2554 models.

[paul-f]

Don't let all the WE talk cloud your vision.  As you have seen, there are some amazing phones among the other manufacturers -- both domestic and foreign.

While working on my first collection (one each of the major WE phone types from 20AL to 500), I learned about the wonderful variety of bakelite sets made in the 1930s and 40s.  I spent several years scouring the flea markets for SC, AE, Kellogg and Leich sets and found things to like in each line. I recall getting the most entertainment from studying the Kellogg sets in detail -- particularly the K900 and 925 types.

I was lucky enough to find a SC 1191 in excellent condition that still has a prominent place in my display.  The ringer gong on the front is an added interesting feature.

  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3931.msg51804#msg51804

[Lewes2]

What's clouding my vision are the numbers on eBay.

Doing a search on various telephones yielded the following results:

Western Electric: 4,456
Automatic Electric: 546
Stromberg Carlson: 462
Kellogg: 264

Judging from these numbers alone, one would assume that WE dominated and controlled the telephone industry be sheer numbers. 

Hence my characterization of the 800 pound gorilla.

Chuck

[wds]

I always wondered why WE phones aren't going for about $1 each because there are no shortage of those phones.  They are utilitarian and plain looking compared to some of the other manufacturers.   

[Dave F]

I always wondered why WE phones aren't going for about $1 each because there are no shortage of those phones.  They are utilitarian and plain looking compared to some of the other manufacturers.   

Actually, most WE sets on eBay do not sell at all, not even for $1.00.  It's all a matter of rarity and desirability.  Most of it is common, and even a die-hard WE collector such as myself has a difficult time finding the obscure "good stuff".  But, when we do find a rare one that resonates, the cost is pretty much destined to far exceed that $1.00 mark.  The nice thing to remember is that there are still many hidden gems out there waiting to be discovered, and the anticipation of what's around the next corner keeps the search exciting.

DF 

[Greg G.]

My collection consists of about 12 different manufacturers, but the vast majority of my collection are WE.  That was not by purpose, just the shear quantity and information available about them.  I would probably buy more of the cheap ones on ebay, but it's the shipping costs (and the risk that goes with it) that I have a hard time with. 

[Dave F]

Yes, it's hard to buy a phone for $1.00 and $15.00 shipping --  and then have it arrive damaged due to poor packing!

DF

[Dan/Panther]

My take on the issue is, the reason I feel WE took command of the phone business, was the fact that IMHO, A&E were not built hefty enough, and Kellogg Over engineered, I feel their phones were not cost effective to manufacture. They had many great Ideas, but too advanced, I think, for the telephone market. Plug in modules were a neat feature, but years ahead of their time, and I'm sure very expensive to make.
Later on Kellogg even licensed the rights to copy WE parts. Darn good copies too, I think ?

D/P

[AE_Collector]

And of course we have to remember that WE was the Bell Systems exclusive phone manufacturer and the Bell System had the vast majority of the phone lines in the USA. All other phone manufacturers had only the non Bell Telcos to sell to.

Automatic Electric began making only "Automatic" phones for their Automatic Exchanges which very few and far between in the early years of the 20th Century.

One final comment about the numbers. There are a fair number of Western Electric phones listed on eBay that aren't WE's. Sellers think that listing WE will help them sell the phone.

Terry

[Sargeguy]

The Bell System had roughly 60-90% market share when WECO produced most of the phones that appear on eBay.  But keep in mind that WECO also sold phones to independent phone companies as well as the Bell System.  Most of the other companies that focused just on producing phones eventually went under, the ones that survived specialized in switchboards, switching equipment, paystations etc.

[Dave F]

<snip>...One final comment about the numbers. There are a fair number of Western Electric phones listed on eBay that aren't WE's. Sellers think that listing WE will help them sell the phone.

Terry

It is my belief that MOST sellers who list non-WE phones as WEs simply do not know the difference.  Rather than some misplaced desire to be devious, it is most likely their ignorance and that they are too lazy to do their homework before selling.  Surely, most collectors know the difference and would not be suckered into buying a non-WE set that was listed as WE.  Occasionally, some neophyte might get hoodwinked, but the lesson learned would probably prevent any similar future mistakes.

DF

[TelePlay]

It is my belief that MOST sellers who list non-WE phones as WEs simply do not know the difference.  Rather than some misplaced desire to be devious, it is most likely their ignorance and that they are too lazy to do their homework before selling.

And along that line is this newly listed (in poor overall condition and with a cracked shell), shining example of a seller not doing their homework, but in this case, the seller does realize they didn't do it and questioned their own listing title:

    "Antique VIntage Western Electric? Office Desk Telephone Phone Movie Prop Decor"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221606814965