2 switchooks in a 202 set

[WesternElectricBen]

I bought this 202 phone (http://tinyurl.com/nax89pb) for the switchook to install in my 202 project. Although, to my surprise it has 2 switchooks installed. Could somebody tell me why they would do this? My primary research was very inconclusive.

Ben

[unbeldi]

I see that it is stamped D1, but it is actually configured as D2 or D3.  I can't see the terminal designations to find which one.

See a similar discussion here:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13693.0

[WesternElectricBen]

Thank you, Karl. So, if I am correct this would be wired for anti-sidetone? Although, I'm guessing the switch will work fine by its self.

Ben

[unbeldi]

Thank you, Karl. So, if I am correct this would be wired for anti-sidetone? Although, I'm guessing the switch will work fine by its self.

Ben

A D2 mounting is actually used to make a sidetone telephone.  It is used as the TIP station on a 2-party line with message rate service.  This is a 103 telephone.

A D3 makes either a 104, 204 or a 207 type telephone.  These all need extra hookswitch contacts.

Frankly, it would be too bad to part this out, actually.   There is a No. 23 amplifier on eBay currently that could use a D3 mount. But I think, if I were the one to put it together, I would want a mount that also says D3.   The 207 telephone is an amplifier telephone for the hearing impaired.

But, I think this was actually a D2.

[poplar1]

Ben, is the terminal with the two red wires R or RR?

[G-Man]

Interesting! These instruments were still in service when I first went to work for the telephone company and I have never come across a D-1 mounting with a second contact assembly.

Normally there is simply a terminal in that location used to tie the two red leads together. This set is wired as a 202, with the second contact assembly not being used, except as a tie-point. It also looks as if two of the unused terminal screws are backed-off, which certainly is not how they came from the factory.

The replacement vinyl coiled cord has the spade-terminal on its unused white wire clipped-off and is wound around the cord.

Here is a document from the TCI Library that describes the various handset mountings from that era and also shows their parts breakdown.-
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/12215-1935-we-catalog-no-9-extract-c-d-and-e-type-handset-mountings-description-wiring-and-parts

[G-Man]

Ben, is the terminal with the two red wires R or RR?

Popular1, my eyesight is poor but I deciphered the terminal designations as "R" - "G" "B" - "RD".

Also, a sidetone LBTCBS set used a D1 mounting, while a antisidetone LBTCBS set used a D5. However, I do not know what wiring arrangement was used in the sidetone version.

[poplar1]

[
Also, a sidetone LBTCBS set used a D1 mounting, while a antisidetone LBTCBS set used a D5. However, I do not know what wiring arrangement was used in the sidetone version.

Connections for a 102 to a 534YR 534Y subset for L.B.T., C.B.S. (local battery talking and common battery signaling) are shown in Section C63.331, Issue 4, 5-29-44 (not in TCI Library):
Green to L2GN
Yellow to Y
Red to R

It is also shown in  C44.101 i2 Nov. '31 (in TCI library): Fig. 2 (see note 1) and Fig. 8.
The manual set is wired as a 102A. The dial version--102E, 102F, 102G-- is different from the 102B/C/D: note that the W and BB contact springs are not used on the dial. Also, the red handset conductor and the red mounting cord conductor are terminated on R of the dial rather than on the separate R terminal.

At that time (Nov. 1931),  102, 103, and 104 designations referred only to the oval base hand telephone sets. There was "no assembly code" for the earlier hand tel. sets using A-type or B-type hand set mountings. These were called, for example, "B1 Type  Hand Set Mounting with E1B Type  Hand Set."

[G-Man]

Hi popular1,

I realize the significance of types "A" and "B" handset mountings, however I was pointing out that "D"-types superseded both of those in some applications as is shown in this partial BSP.
Thanks

[G-Man]

Ben, is the terminal with the two red wires R or RR?

Popular1, my eyesight is poor but I deciphered the terminal designations as “R” - “G” - “RD”.

Also, a sidetone LBTCBS set used a D1 mounting, while a antisidetone LBTCBS set used a D5. However, I do not know what wiring arrangement was used in the sidetone version.

Another examination reveals that instead of "G" the terminal may actually be designated as "B" which would make more sense. Of course we will not know until Ben is able to verify it.

[poplar1]

I was trying to answer your point about how D1 mountings were wired for L.B.T. C.B.S. for sidetone use. The diagrams apply to A-,  B-, and D-type mountings.

I may be misinterpreting the BSP, but in any case, the wiring is the  for  A1, B1 and D1, even though for some reason they don't call a B1 with E1B handset a "102."

[WesternElectricBen]

Thank you for all your replies and help, Karl, David and G-man. The resources are invaluable.

I think I will grab the hook switch contacts out of it simply because it is marked D1. Not a D3 which makes me curious why it was never stamped like that. Do you think it is possible that the contacts were added later?

I will make sure to answer the questions and post pictures of the internal layout once I receive it.

Ben

[G-Man]

I was trying to answer your point about how D1 mountings were wired for L.B.T. C.B.S. for sidetone use. The diagrams apply to A-,  B-, and D-type mountings.

I may be misinterpreting the BSP, but in any case, the wiring is the  for  A1, B1 and D1, even though for some reason they don't call a B1 with E1B handset a "102."

Gottcha!

Thanks!!

[WesternElectricBen]

Here we go, I received the phone today and took pictures so you could see the internal layout. The left switchook has already been removed.

Ben

[unbeldi]

Ok, so the terminal layout is  R, B, RR,  which is what I thought.  It is was a D2 mounting for a 103 telephone. Why the neck wasn't remarked is anyone's guess. The fewest of collectors would install an second pile to obtain the 103 circuit functionality of tip-party ID.  In fact, I only know one :-) but he would prefer a properly marked set.

On the other hand, come to think of it, it could have been installed by someone on a key system for A-lead control.