A red 500 for Christmas .....

[poplar1]

Don't the red 2500s normally have a red face plate?

The first WE 1500s (10-button dial) had Charcoal (color code --70) faceplates, regardless of phone color.
Later red (--53) 1500s, and most red (--53) 2500s, had Muted Red (--69) faceplates.
These gray faceplates, with AT&T logo, were used starting sometime after 1983.

[Pourme]

Here is yet another one with a II-1972 H4CJ handset cord. Other than the cord, the set itself is 11-55 throughout.
This cord looks pretty thick also, actually.

Is that yours?

That is a beautiful example...Nice!

[unbeldi]

Is that yours?

That is a beautiful example...Nice!

Yes, all pictured here are mine, thanks.

[Jim Stettler]

The first WE 1500s (10-button dial) had Charcoal (color code --70) faceplates, regardless of phone color.
Later red (--53) 1500s, and most red (--53) 2500s, had Muted Red (--69) faceplates.
These gray faceplates, with AT&T logo, were used starting sometime after 1983.

More faceplate tidbits:

The early faceplates were "ridged"on the back and backpainted. On the very early faceplates the phone number card was put in the back.

Later faceplates were textured on the front. texture style can vary by brand.

I have seen some of the early WE faceplates recycled into to modern faceplates by texture painting the front.

The late faceplates like the AT&T shown had a plastic "retainer tab" sticking up, earlier faceplates  were held in place with a metal retainer attached to the housing.


JMO,
Jim S.

[Dan/Panther]

These are the two "RED" WE phones I have on display. Neither are "RED" but rather a light maroon color.
Every time I have ever purchased a RED phone from an eBay auction, they were NOT RED.
After market and newer models may have been RED, but I have never seen a pre early 60's or 50's Coca Cola RED phone.

I am quite sure no matter what lighting I use neither of those phones will come close to Coca Cola Red OR Peking Red.
Could you retake that photo Umbeldi, and put something as a color comparison like a American flag to set the color correct ? Like in the third photo, the cloth in the middle IS Coca Cola RED. The phones are NOT.
Could you retake the photo with an example of RED next to the phone.

D/P

[unbeldi]

These are the two "RED" WE phones I have on display. Neither are "RED" but rather a light maroon color.
Every time I have ever purchased a RED phone from an eBay auction, they were NOT RED.
After market and newer models may have been RED, but I have never seen a pre early 60's or 50's Coca Cola RED phone.

I am quite sure no matter what lighting I use neither of those phones will come close to Coca Cola Red OR Peking Red.
Could you retake that photo Umbeldi, and put something as a color comparison like a American flag to set the color correct ? Like in the third photo, the cloth in the middle IS Coca Cola RED. The phones are NOT.
Could you retake the photo with an example of RED next to the phone.

D/P

I completely understand your point, Dan.  Believe me, when I photograph the same phones inside with mostly incandescent light they look like yours. A flash comes closer to daylight, but then it's hard to control the shadows without diffusers around the object.
I'll check what other pictures I already have, but I don't photograph without natural light usually.

I guess, that's why they also nicknamed this color as Cherry Red.

[unbeldi]

Here are a couple old shots with artificial lighting.
On the shelves are visible some red phones, the same ones as shown previously, but looking more 'maroon' than bright red.  The most noticeable difference is in the red 2500 in the single shelf cubicle at the right.  It really doesn't look 'red' red.

Second is a closeup of that same spot with a flash, looks better red already. In daylight that same phone has the same bright red color as in my other photos previously.  I think I can find a shot of that too.

By the way, this is one of the later 2500DMG of 1982 with the newer face plate mentioned by Jim earlier.

[unbeldi]

Here is a group picture of some reds, including the ones I showed earlier.
The same 2500DMG is on the right side.

This picture has a mixture of shade and sun spots, but no flash.

[Dan/Panther]

I would like to hear some other opinions on the difference between Umbeldi and my photos.  I have just never seen any WE phone made before the early sixties, that were that RED. Maybe they are enhanced, that is why I suggested a color reference beside one. I have several so called red WE phones, the ONLY one that comes close to RED, is the Peking Red. Maybe later productions were more RED, but not the early ones.

D/P

[unbeldi]

I would like to hear some other opinions on the difference between Umbeldi and my photos.  I have just never seen any WE phone made before the early sixties, that were that RED. Maybe they are enhanced, that is why I suggested a color reference beside one. I have several so called red WE phones, the ONLY one that comes close to RED, is the Peking Red. Maybe later productions were more RED, but not the early ones.

D/P

What do you mean with ''enhanced''?  Are you suggesting I changed the color of all those phones?

Here are two red color swatches.
The first is  RGB  255:0:0, the second 128:0:0.  They are the ''same'' red, the only difference is the intensity. The second one has one half the intensity of the first. This is roughly equivalent to using dimmer light of the same spectrum.

I think this looks fairly similar to lighting effect with the phones.

The red in the 500 phone in you picture has roughly a ratio of 5 to 6 of red vs. blue and green components, blue and green are roughly the same.
In one of my 500s the ratio is about 4 or 5 to 1, so it has even more non-red (blue and green) components as yours.  I think that suggests again that this is purely an effect of light intensity.

The "reference" color with your phones has a ratio of roughly RGB=240:40:60, i.e.  about 4 to 5 times red vs. blue and green.

[Dan/Panther]

The reference in the photo was taken at the same time, with the phones, no lighting trick would make them match if filmed at the same time TOGETHER With the same light hitting BOTH receivers..
In the photo below, the receiver on the left is WE500, typical of EVERY WE500 I own. On the right is a Coca Cola RED Stromberg Carlson 1976.
This is what I'm referring to. The WE 500 phones are NOT Coca Cola Red. The SC, IS COCA COLA RED. Both photographed at the same timer at the same lighting. Now, what I'm saying is if you place those same two receivers at the same time in any lighting situation, It will NOT turn the WE 500 into the same shade of Red as the SC, UNLESS the lighting also changes the Shade of the SC. The SC IS ALWAYS going to look REDDER than the WE, no matter what the lighting of the two TOGETHER is. The SC is a REDDER RED. Which NONE of MY WE sets can match, nor do I think anyone else's will. They are a very different shade of Red from each other.


D/P

[AE_Collector]

Same with AE phones Dan. The early red 80's and 90's are called "Garnet Red" which to me is a good description of the dark red color. In later years AE produced some phones in "Candy Apple Red" which is much lighter and brighter than Garnet Red.

Terry

[unbeldi]

The reference in the photo was taken at the same time, with the phones, no lighting trick would make them match if filmed at the same time TOGETHER With the same light hitting BOTH receivers..
In the photo below, the receiver on the left is WE500, typical of EVERY WE500 I own. On the right is a Coca Cola RED Stromberg Carlson 1976.
This is what I'm referring to. The WE 500 phones are NOT Coca Cola Red. The SC, IS COCA COLA RED. Both photographed at the same timer at the same lighting. Now, what I'm saying is if you place those same two receivers at the same time in any lighting situation, It will NOT turn the WE 500 into the same shade of Red as the SC, UNLESS the lighting also changes the Shade of the SC. The SC IS ALWAYS going to look REDDER than the WE, no matter what the lighting of the two TOGETHER is. The SC is a REDDER RED. Which NONE of MY WE sets can match, nor do I think anyone else's will. They are a very different shade of Red from each other.


D/P

It is just a matter of light intensities.   The WECo red reflects less light compared to the one on the right.
If you photograph the WECo handset with more light, it looks pretty much the same, this image shows what it would look like, the left handset is simply enlightened.

The WECo red is simply a darker red given the same amount of lighting.  As a consequence, when you take your phones outside and photograph them in sunlight, they will look like mine.  One aspect to observe of course is the amount polishing performed on the surface, a dull surface absorbs more light than a polished one.  My phones were polished, the least polished phone was the first 500, with the PErshing number card, and it does look just a little less bright.

[Dan/Panther]

I think you miss the point of my response. No matter what, The W.E. is never going to be as red as the SC under the same lighting. Use my photo without a split screen, or individual manipulations, and make the two match. That is IMPOSSIBLE. Apply any and all enhancements to the entire photo at the same time, and make the two receivers match.
In your example of my photo you are demonstrating what I said. UNLESS YOU INDIVIDUALLY enhance or light the two receivers DIFFERENTLY, you will not get a match in the same photo. THE W.E. is darker red phone IS NOT AS RED AS THE SC. And filmed TOGETHER UNDER THE SAME LIGHTING CONDITIONS, will not yield a match. What you propose is not how the receivers were photographed.  Of Course with enhancement I CAN make them match.

D/P

[unbeldi]

I think you miss the point of my response. No matter what, The W.E. is never going to be as red as the SC under the same lighting. Use my photo without a split screen, or individual manipulations, and make the two match. That is IMPOSSIBLE. Apply any and all enhancements to the entire photo at the same time, and make the two receivers match.
In your example of my photo you are demonstrating what I said. UNLESS YOU INDIVIDUALLY enhance or light the two receivers DIFFERENTLY, you will not get a match in the same photo. THE W.E. is darker red phone IS NOT AS RED AS THE SC. And filmed TOGETHER UNDER THE SAME LIGHTING CONDITIONS, will not yield a match. What you propose is not how the receivers were photographed.  Of Course with enhancement I CAN make them match.

D/P

Well, nobody disputed that the SC handset uses a brighter red.  My exercise was merely to demonstrate that the difference in "color" is simply a matter of light intensity.

Of course a brighter and a darker tone of red are going to look different in the same light, unless the light is so intense that the camera or the human eye experiences saturation, at which point the reproduction becomes very similar or identical.  This can also be demonstrated digitally.

The whole argument was that you thought WECo produced multiple different colors of red, which they did not.  It is a matter of illumination.  If we photograph your set and mine in the same light they will look the same, give or take the effects of polishing and possibly some yellowing.