Phones aboard the U. S. S. Arizona inside the wreck

[McHeath]

Yeah there was some disagreement about tea eh?  

The USS Arizona took a direct hit to the powder room and it blew the ship apart pretty badly.  Nearly half the dead from the whole battle of Pearl Harbor were onboard that ship.  The other sunken ships were recovered, but the Arizona was not, nor were the dead removed.  It's a pretty important site to Americans.

Here is the site and ship from the air.  You can see the oil slick as well in this picture.  The ships bunkers continue to leak small amounts of oil.

[TelePlay]

The USS Arizona took a direct hit to the powder room and it blew the ship apart pretty badly.  

And, if my memory serves me right, the direct hit was by way of a bomb dropping into one of the smoke stacks giving it a free fall to the lowest parts of the ship before exploding and setting off the well protected powder room. A golden BB, a term usually used to describe the effect of just one bullet needed to take down a flying aircraft or helicopter by hitting something crucial to flight. In this case, an unusually low probability and deadly landing of a bomb.

[George Knighton]

I suppose I should ask, given how us brits tend not to get taught about US Naval history....

There can be huge, huge differences in how history is taught on either side of the Atlantic.

In the United Kingdom, the prevalent point of view at the moment is that George III was a good guy, and that "Farmer George" was both a well beloved king and an astute constitutional authority who mirrored the ideas of Henry VIII and Elizabeth I when it came to a prince owing his duty to his people.

The government depend upon us, not we upon them.  They are dust that we have molded.  Theirs is empty breath without our voice.

There is also a huge difference of opinion up north and across the Atlantic about why the American War of Independence even happened.  People point out that the Yankees like Alexander Hamilton were privateers and smugglers whose incomes would be affected by Royal Navy patrols and better control of duties and taxes. 

And in tribute to the American Indians who helped the British defeat the French in Canada and Louisiana, George III had prohibited white settlements west of the Blue Ridge.  This thwarted the plans of the rich Southerners who openly planned huge land grabs west of the Valley.

Just the other point of view.

Don't kill me.  :-)

[Russ Kirk]

George,

I find the different points of view very interesting and many thanks for sharing.   I always thought the US and GB historical views aligned,  apparently I was wrong.   It is best to know how everyone perceives history.

[twocvbloke]

The problem with history is that those who write it tend to alter it in their favour, skewing the facts and making them appear truthful when they're about as truthful as a compulsive liar...

It's why I never bother to pay attention to history myself, there are elements of it I look into, such as the history of what I collect, but political history, nah, it's far too messed up...

[McHeath]

Saw an interesting BBC production about the American Revolution a couple of years ago, their perspective and all.  Very very interesting.  Of course us Yankees don't see eye to eye on it eh?

Speaking of Yankees, I remember when I first moved to Texas after being born and raised in California and finding monuments to Confederate soldiers in town squares.  I was a whopping 18 years old and had been taught that the Confederates were The Bad Guys, and yet here were carvings on pedestals about "Our Noble Confederate Dead".  It was my first personal experience with encountering how someone else saw the same history and interpreted it differently.   

My wife recalls a moment in school in the early 60's when a black girl in her class said the Pledge of Allegiance and changed the words of "and justice for all" to "and justice for some".  Shocked her, so much so that she still recalls it vividly today.  Really surprised her that someone right next to her in class was seeing and experiencing America so differently that she was. 

I like history, and I find it interesting looking at all the different ways to see it.  But yeah, phones are easier.

[twocvbloke]

Saw an interesting BBC production about the American Revolution a couple of years ago, their perspective and all.  Very very interesting.  Of course us Yankees don't see eye to eye on it eh?

Must have been on BBC Four, cos that's where they stick their historical shows which I don't watch, unless it's based on science & technology (like, Micromen, The Secret life of the National Grid, errrrrm, yeah, that's all!!!), everything else I just ignore... 

I think the US has a similar North/South divide like the UK, where people in each half have differing opinions on historical and current politics, and blames it on the opposing side...

[McHeath]

I saw it on PBS here, but from what you say it must have been a BBC 4 show originally.

Oh yeah, we have a North/South divide, and an East coast/West Coast divide, and a heartland/coasts divide, etc.  Here in California we have hugely divided politics and cultures.  The coast of Calif is Left Wing, the central farming valley is very Right Wing, the Sierra Nevada range is very Libertarian, and L.A. is, well L.A.   

I've lived in all the regions of Calif at some time and enjoyed them all, but they sure have different flavors. 

[twocvbloke]

Oh yeah, we have a North/South divide, and an East coast/West Coast divide, and a heartland/coasts divide, etc.  Here in California we have hugely divided politics and cultures.  The coast of Calif is Left Wing, the central farming valley is very Right Wing, the Sierra Nevada range is very Libertarian, and L.A. is, well L.A.   

Maybe the USA should be the USD, the United States of Division...

[McHeath]

That's the amusing part of it all, being divided/different is really a central part of being American and has been from the very start.  Pick however you want to be, and we will have an area of the country that you will fit nicely into.

[dpaynter1066]

How sad, that same, respect was not shown the TITANIC. Over 1500 dead there.
D/P

The reason they could loot the titanic is that it was a civillian liner when it sank and isnt coverred under the international law of the sea convention on war graves.  The titanic is salvage, and rights to the ship it's self are held by it's insurers. In the case of the Lusitania, a fellow purchased the rights and owns it privately.  But the debris field all around titanic is open ground and free game for anything picked up there.  Had they been picking up gold bars off the bottom, however, you can be pretty sure the insurers would have tried to put in a claim on them.  The Lusitania was an armed auxilliary cruiser warship subsidized by the royal navy, but to claim the fiction that it was unlawfully sunk, they couldnt claim it as a war grave as it wasnt activated at the time, but was operating as a civillian passenger liner smuggling war  munitions.  The guns were retracted and concealed into the deck so I doubt any of the passengers realized the Lucy was well armed. Wonder what sort of BPO phones are on her?

[Dan/Panther]

I'm one of the founding members of The Queen Mary Foundation, 1993. One of our original members was Ken Marshall, Maritime artist, He has the original Steam Fog horn, from the Lusitania. He was able to obtain it, according to him, Rather cheap.
The Titanic had several committed, "no salvage countries", unfortunately one of the non members, France, Got the loot. There was, and not sure if it still stands, a law in the United States, that prohibits, any of the French artifacts, from being displayed in The United States. ( This may have since been changed ) How utterly unfortunate for us, as the Titanic, was an American owned vessel, owned by J.P Morgans, International Mercantile Marine. BTW, at the time of the sinking of the Titanic, The I.M.M., was J.P. Morgans, FIRST financial failure, some speculated that The Titanic, was sabotaged.  The insurance payout, to Morgan, helped bail his butt, out of a bad situation. In addition, many of J.P. Morgans financial competitors, had booked passage on the Titanic. Ironically, so had J.P. Morgan, who cancelled his reservations, the day before the Titanic set sail. YOU DO THE MATH.  

D/P

[twocvbloke]

There's a lot of conspiracies about the Titanic, a lot of stories, and a lot of tall tales, but, all I know is, it sank after being damaged, they made a bad film about it (well, a few, including the boringly long one with wassisname dicarpio), and that I used to live just round the corner from where the bandmaster, Wallace Hartley, was born...

Hartley's house link and his statue link...

The chef's survival was a good story though, getting absolutely rip roaringly drunk so that the alcohol in his bloodstream acted like antifreeze in a car's cooling system, so he survived because the cold water slowed his metabolism, heart and brain functions down, but he didn't freeze because of the amount of alcohol he drank, and once warmed up, he was still alive... 

[davidbholcomb]

The first one certainly looks as though it could be an AE 2 and the AE 2 had only existed for maybe 13 years when the Arizona went to the bottom. A dial phone inboard hintsat a Stronger Exchange inboard as well. I wouldn't want to try to get tat working again now.

Terry

Terry...an AE2 was the first thing that came to mind for me as well. What else could it be? Talk about a fragile phone in a rough environment....Doug

Looks like Doug and Terry nailed it on the head. This newspaper clipping is from May 4, 1930 and was published in the Oregonian newspaper.

[AE_Collector]

Good research work David!

The AE 2 would have been the obvious dial set to be installed by Automatic Electric in the 1930 time frame.

I think that is the third time in my life that I have been right about something!

Terry