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197G--Another big Project!!

Started by WEBellSystemChristian, January 05, 2017, 07:05:30 PM

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WEBellSystemChristian

Since I started getting interested in payphones, I always wanted an early black 3 slot. Every one that I tried to buy in the past either sold out from under me or became a too-rich-for-my-blood ebay auction.

Well, I finally found one on ebay a few days ago for $140.02 plus shipping. It's a major project (like the other 3 pay stations I have that still aren't finished), but it should be fun.

This one is far from an original example--replaced dial, dial plate, dial surround, most innards, coin return bucket, handset, and cord. Worst of all, it was repainted Beige in the '70s! >:( I tried Acetone on one side, and it seems to remove the Beige rapidly, but not the Black underneath. I think it even took off some Black touch-up paint from later in its life as a black phone. IF the Acetone doesn't affect the original paint and it cleans up very well, I'll keep it that way. If it 'burns through' per se, I'll strip the outside down and powdercoat it.

What was different about a 197G from a 233G? From what I understand, the 197G was the updated variation of the 190 series. This one is from 1956. Would it have a G1, or was it electrically not able to accept one (like a 302 vs 500)? Also, does anyone have a spare early black pull-out coin bucket for the 190 series?

www.ebay.com/itm/272492918219
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Payphone installer

You bought a 233g at this point, there is no economic value at even trying to convert this to a 197G it would cost you to much for the parts. The 197G  was one the first 190 series with a coin return button but still had most of the features of the 190 series. For starters a two coil relay. the hopper in your phone will not even accept one. Stop buying the phones based on the price. Start buying them on there originality you can find a good deal but you must know what you are buying first. You did not get a good deal on this phone at 140.00. I watch folks buy payphones all day that are junk. Repro parts. Mismatch of parts. Things that are bright and shine and look pretty but are junk.  Just like guns, cars, sign, any other antique do your research,decide what you want and find it at the right price. I see very little of this happening now day.   

WEBellSystemChristian

Thank you for your two cents worth...

I'm really surprised at how well the original finish stood up to the constant Acetone attacks, and how well it was preserved. It's a little tacky right now, but it will harden as the Acetone evaporates. This is after about 10 minutes of work. No polishing, waxing, or touch-ups:
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford


RotarDad

#4
Christian -  Wow that ugly beige sure came off nicely - great work!  Regarding Payphone Installer's feedback, he is correct that you would spend a lot of money to buy the parts needed to return the phone to original 197G status, plus the time to track them down.  The 197 would have had a 101B coil (like a 354) mounted to a bracket at the top, instead of that terminal plate.  Behind the bracket should sit a 195C 2-wire cap on top of a cardboard spacer.  The 197 would also have had a different hopper and dual-coil relay (that's the more expensive part) that mounts in the 2 empty screw holes in front of the current hopper.  Everything should be wired with the vintage cloth-covered wires.

I believe that 197 phones were equipped with both F and G handsets based on my reading in Ron Knappen's "Payphone History".  That book shows a cutover from F to G happening in 1955.   It may depend on what the phone started out as.  For example, a 1950 191 gets refurbed to add a pull bucket and coin return button but keeps its F handset.  Another 197 may have been built later with a G.   The F sure looks nice with a straight rubber cord.

As you mention, you also need a Bakelite pull bucket, plus a vault door, a couple locks, a black dial daisy with metal wheel, and some other small parts.   One other item of note is that the backplate has been altered during refurb to incorporate the 4 "security stud" inserts.  A full restoration is possible, but a complete 197G can probably be had on Ebay for a lot less time and money than restoring this one.    If you are a purest, then studying up, and buying one complete is the best course of action.   If you enjoy the project and are content to have it look vintage 197 externally,  then you can certainly get what you want with this phone.   In my experience, payphone parts are expensive, especially the older ones which are much less common.  So many of these phones were refurbed and converted to later models (like yours) that most of the old parts are simply gone.  On yours I see a nice open center wheel there for one of your 500s - you won't need that on a vintage 197!

Last thought - You can certainly clean this one up and get it working with a surplus network, and sell it on Ebay to someone who just wants a nice looking 3-slot.  You'll get good money, then you could continue the hunt for a more complete one.   It's a hobby, it's up to you..... :)

Paul

WEBellSystemChristian

#5
Thanks guys!!

The cleanup is still going great. I had to turn in for the night before I finished cleaning the front up...It looks almost NOS, maybe with only about a year's worth of wear on the original paint.

As for internal parts; they don't really matter to me. Matching parts are a huge concern for me in the world of 500s, but not so much for paystations. I will eventually want to a full conversion back to a 197G, but I'm going to take my time, and add correct parts as I find them. At least the most challenging (or at least most anxiety provoking) part what I thought this restoration would be--complete disassembly, powdercoat, and reassembly--won't need to be done.

I definitely want to keep this one! I can't stand buying an expensive phone so I can put it on a shelf without working on it at all. I love the restoration process, it's more than half the fun for me! If that means removing paint, replacing parts, and hunting down rare parts and pieces, it sounds like my kind of job! ;)

As for the fingerwheel...FINALLY, I find a phone that has a fingerwheel I need and needs a fingerwheel I have too many of! ;D
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

WEBellSystemChristian

#6
This may be a dumb question, but...

Should a phone with a coin return badge above the coin return opening use the pull bucket? It seems like the phones that had the open space had the badge spot welded to the lower housing, but that spot is bare on phones that have the pull bucket. I've seen several 190 series paystations with and without the pull bucket. Was it an update across the entire line (and just took a little while to phase in), or was it only designed for certain applications or environments?

Mine has the badge, and if it didn't have a pull bucket from the factory, it would make sense that mine has a later one.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Pourme

In the past, when stripping aftermarket paint, the original paint is unaffected by the stripper, at least initially. The outter paint protects the original coat. Could be yours was painted early in its life, therefore preserving the original coat. Good for you!

I understand your pleasure in the process of restoration. I share that joy.

Enjoy your new project!

Benny
Benny

Panasonic 308/616 Magicjack service

WEBellSystemChristian

Well, this is disappointing...

I tried using the Acetone method on the lower housing and backboard. It looks like those parts were painted in something much weaker than the upper housing, and the Acetone melted right through to the bare metal! :'(

I'll have to sandblast and powdercoat the lower and backboard, but I want to try keeping the upper housing's finish as it sits. That means I'll have to look for a powder that has the exact finish as the upper housing.

I guess I could go the whole nine yards and sandblast/powdercoat everything. I'll have to think it over.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

RotarDad

Christian - On the coin return question, you are correct that the phones with the badge would originally not have had the pull bucket.  I don't know if WE ever built new phones with both, but I'm sure the design intent was not to have 2 "coin return" logos.  When the pull buckets were added, the badge was no longer needed.  You will see many phones with both.  Most of the time, you are seeing an older vault used to make a refurbished phone of a later model like yours.  Your phone may have started life as a 191 before becoming a 197, and then eventually the 233 config it sits in now.  It will probably be easiest to swap in a bakelite bucket to give it a late-50s look.
Paul

WEBellSystemChristian

#10
Despite saying that I would only be working on my 1234Gs for now, I decided to make some progress on the 197G upper today while I wait for the 1234Gs' matching Green powder. I got farther that I thought I would... :o

I probably spent a total of around 4 hours just removing the Beige paint on the upper and dial surround. It wasn't hard, just very tedious. I still have a few specs here and there, but it's pretty much all gone.
Other than a small hole drilled in the right side, everything is in great shape! This paint was not satin or semigloss from the factory; it become perfectly glossy almost instantly after I started polishing. I suspect the dullness it had before was just a side effect of using Acetone.

I found a nice 1953 #6 to replace the 1964 dial it had before. I also found a blank plate on my 'parts' Beige 3 slot. Finally, it's starting to look like a real phone again!

The rest of the phone still has a LONG way to go. I will be using Mirror Gloss Black powdercoat on the backboard (preserving the ink stamps and intact black paint) and lower housing.

Since the chrome parts this came with are in pretty bad shape, and they would have been black on the phone from the factory, should I sandblast and powdercoat them along with the lower and backboard? If anyone thinks they're in good shape, I wouldn't mind trading if someone has a switchhook and instruction card like these in worse shape.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

AL_as_needed

Im glad you document these projects so well, I want to get into payphones and these last few you have taken on have definitely been helpful in easing my fears of taking the plunge. Someday.... ::)
TWinbrook7

Dan/Panther

Am I the only one that used to stuff tissue into the return slot of the pay phone, then come back in a day or so and remove the tissue and get all the refund chain ?

Dennis don't tell anyone.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

.....

Quote from: Dan/Panther on January 15, 2017, 11:44:39 AM
Am I the only one that used to stuff tissue into the return slot of the pay phone, then come back in a day or so and remove the tissue and get all the refund chain ?

Dennis don't tell anyone.
D/P

I didn't do that, but there was a Telephone Booth on the way to school that I would always check. Sometimes I would find a dime and I would think I struck it rich. Candy money for after school. That was around 1965, I remember the year because my teacher Mr. Brown got a new light blue 65 Mustang. That car was jaw dropping, oh if life was that simple again. No Telephone Booths around here to check. :(