Western Electric 4F Dial

[Doug Rose]

Ever seen on of these? Looks like it might have been a test dial....Doug


http://tinyurl.com/c2nbrs9

[telcoguy]

Ever seen on of these? Looks like it might have been a test dial....Doug

http://tinyurl.com/c2nbrs9

I am not sure what I'm doing here as this is the first time that I have responded to a posting on the Rotary Forum.  The dial that Doug has posted is most likely a converted #2 dial, but I can't tell for sure because I can't see the side of the dial case below the fingerstop where one would see the presence of two small holes that were plugged with lead when converted.  The #2 dial was either a 2E, 2F or 2G, all three of which were at one time four terminal deskstand dials but had a fifth terminal added to separate the receiver and trans circuits for special applications.  I have examples of these special #2 dials, but I have never seen one converted to a #4 which required the addition of two more leaves to the pileup, from five to seven.  The added terminal at the top was left there and no doubt is the "W" terminal on this converted, 4F dial.  The dial would be "rare" in one sense in that there were probably not very many of the special converted #2 dials that were ever converted to #4 dials.  A #4F dial was very likely used in the CO as I believe it was set to 20PPS dialing rather than the standard 10.

Hope this helps.  Gary Goff, the Telcoguy.

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EDIT:  cleaned up or out nested quotes

[telcoguy]

Ever seen on of these? Looks like it might have been a test dial....Doug


http://tinyurl.com/c2nbrs9

I just looked at the dial again and realize that I can't count.  There are five leaves in the pileup and this WAS a #2 dial, converted to a #4.  The interesting fact here is that it's the first #4 dial I've seen without seven leaves in the pileup.  This WAS a #2E, F, or G dial given the fifth terminal, but it looks like it was "converted" in stampings only.  It's very interesting that someone in W.E. or the Bell System made the decision that this dial with only five leaves in the pileup would work "properly" in a handset phone, but it looks like this is exactly what happened.  There are those in our midst who flatly deny that this could have been done given the circuitry of an deskset with a handset.  There has been an on going discussion among some of us that the 2E, 2F and 2G dials may have been created to work with the very first handset phones (the A1) until the 2H dials, with seven leaves in the pileup, were manufactured.  This dial may have been used on a deskstand (candlestick) too, and that would be O.K., but I don't know why they would have bothered to restamp it 4F when it appears that nothing electrical was done to it.

Sorry for the add on here, but I simply did not look close enough the first time.

Gary Goff

[Wallphone]

Good to finally hear from you Gary. Although you have been a Forum member for awhile, Welcome Aboard. I was looking at BSP 028-300-701 Issue 9D and it looks like the #4F dial is a 20PPS dial.
Doug Pav

[GG]

Hi Gary!

Here's my guess about that dial:

Notice the wear around the finger hole for zero.  Notice the "switchboard" style fingerstop.  And the words "CAL DIAL" on the number card.

To me those items point to the dial being used as a calibration check for switches or for speed-testing other dials or impulse repeaters.  The user of this dial would always dial 0 to perform the test, using one of those "dialing pens" with the round ball at the end where an eraser would otherwise be. 

[unbeldi]

Sorry to revive such an old topic, perhaps this will clear up the puzzle and confusion for future readers.

This dial is indeed a No. 4F dial, which is a 20 pulse per second switchboard dial. It may well have been used for calibration purposes, as its number plate is blank.

All F-type dials, whether No. 2, 4, 5, or 6, have only five springs, with the off-normal contacts being a simple break-make switch, shown in the diagram.

No, this particular one was not converted from a No. 2 dial, because all No. 2 dials had a painted black chassis, not the phosphate-treated gray surface.
This type of dial would not have been used on a telephone set or desk stand.

It looks perfectly genuine as a 4F newly made in 1936.


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