A little tight on funds to buy the original ringer for my AE payphone but maybe I can install a small bell ringer from the hardware store. Some of the phone stores sell them but but than shipping and price gets up there. Here is a pic of where in the phone I think it would connect. But what screws? Some also said a capacitor might also have to hook in the circuit. Where would wires connect in phone? Thanks Ron
The ringer does need a capacitor of approximately 0.5 uF in series with the ringer. You can connect the ringer+capacitor directly to the line. It is independent of the talk circuit of the pay phone.
Green line---><-----black ringer wire------RINGER-------red ringer wire-------><-----capacitor---->Red line
The slate (gray) and slate-red wires on the ringer are not used.
Quote from: poplar1 on October 12, 2017, 06:48:21 PM
The ringer does need a capacitor of approximately 0.5 uF in series with the ringer. You can connect the ringer+capacitor directly to the line. It is independent of the talk circuit of the pay phone.
Green line---><-----black ringer wire------RINGER-------red ringer wire-------><-----capacitor---->Red line
The slate (gray) and slate-red wires on the ringer are not used.
The ringer I have only has two wires and rings with 6 to 12 volts I think. Use your wiring? Thanks Ron
Quote from: darticus on October 12, 2017, 07:38:45 PM
The ringer I have only has two wires and rings with 6 to 12 volts I think. Use your wiring? Thanks Ron
I thought you were talking about the ringer in the photo. That one operates on 90 Volts AC, 20 or 30 Hertz.
I don't think a 6 volt or 12 volt doorbell will work on a phone line.
Quote from: poplar1 on October 12, 2017, 07:59:00 PM
I thought you were talking about the ringer in the photo. That one operates on 90 Volts AC, 20 or 30 Hertz.
I don't think a 6 volt or 12 volt doorbell will work on a phone line.
I didn't know that much came through the red and green line. Thanks Ron
Quote from: darticus on October 12, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
I didn't know that much came through the red and green line. Thanks Ron
Telephone ringers are usually made for low frequency 15-30 Hz 60-90V witch vary from country to country.
North America is typical 20Hz at 90V. Most European countries use 25Hz 90V (Germany 60V)
Still telephone ringer usually accept a wide range in frequencies and voltages. All telephone ringers has a capacitor rated 200V or more in series to block for DC currents. The micro Farad values may vary a lot, but in North America close to 0,5 is the most common, and the double in many European countries. But again they usually works in all those systems.
To match newer systems many people add in resistors in series with older ringers. (I usually do not)
The ringer pictured (from oldphoneworks.com ) is the typ I have used, this is usually used together with a 1 microFarad capacitor.
dsk
Quote from: dsk on October 13, 2017, 02:42:25 AM
Telephone ringers are usually made for low frequency 15-30 Hz 60-90V witch vary from country to country.
North America is typical 20Hz at 90V. Most European countries use 25Hz 90V (Germany 60V)
Still telephone ringer usually accept a wide range in frequencies and voltages. All telephone ringers has a capacitor rated 200V or more in series to block for DC currents. The micro Farad values may vary a lot, but in North America close to 0,5 is the most common, and the double in many European countries. But again they usually works in all those systems.
To match newer systems many people add in resistors in series with older ringers. (I usually do not)
The ringer pictured (from oldphoneworks.com ) is the typ I have used, this is usually used together with a 1 microFarad capacitor.
dsk
Does this bell cost a lot? Does it come with cap and instructions? Maybe thIS will do. Thanks Ron
That bell would be to put inside a phone. You want a ringer box to mount on the plate below the phone. The AE type 33 box is pictured in your other topic on the phone but they are hard to find. I did a quick search on eBay (AKA The E-place) and was surprised that I could not find a lot. Usually there are tons on there. I think you could use a 534A or 634A Western Electric ringer box. I may be wrong on that number, if so one of the experts will corect me. Also someone here may have one available.
Quote from: darticus on October 13, 2017, 06:39:18 AM
Does this bell cost a lot? Does it come with cap and instructions? Maybe thIS will do. Thanks Ron
A 0.47 uF cap for the ringer is cheap.
If you can wait a month, you can get them for 10 cents each ( qty 10 ) from China
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-250V-0-47uF-474J-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-DT-/262454189871
or 80 cents each ( qty 5 ) from a US seller with a few days delivery.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-47uF-630v-5-Metalized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-P20-5-Pieces-47uf-/272716568688
The external ringer box as mentioned by HarrySmith should have a cap in them.
Quote from: TelePlay on October 13, 2017, 08:48:35 AM
A 0.47 uF cap for the ringer is cheap.
If you can wait a month, you can get them for 10 cents each ( qty 10 ) from China
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-250V-0-47uF-474J-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-DT-/262454189871
or 80 cents each ( qty 5 ) from a US seller with a few days delivery.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-47uF-630v-5-Metalized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-P20-5-Pieces-47uf-/272716568688
The external ringer box as mentioned by HarrySmith should have a cap in them.
Will check it out. thanks Ron
Quote from: poplar1 on October 12, 2017, 06:48:21 PM
The ringer does need a capacitor of approximately 0.5 uF in series with the ringer. You can connect the ringer+capacitor directly to the line. It is independent of the talk circuit of the pay phone.
Green line---><-----black ringer wire------RINGER-------red ringer wire-------><-----capacitor---->Red line
The slate (gray) and slate-red wires on the ringer are not used.
In this wiring configuration above, wouldn't the slate and slate-red wires be hooked together to make the circuit complete?
The capacitor is between A and K in the network so if wired as an extension ringer, the circuit would still have to be complete? Am I wrong on this?
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2767.0;attach=14360;image)
Thanks to all!
I don't no if that is still locked or its ok now. I ordered a ringer from ebay that Dave said would work and I'll wire it up after it gets here. Might be back when it get here. Don't know who locked it up. Ron
Quote from: TelePlay on October 15, 2017, 04:51:38 PM
In this wiring configuration above, wouldn't the slate and slate-red wires be hooked together to make the circuit complete?
The capacitor is between A and K in the network so if wired as an extension ringer, the circuit would still have to be complete? Am I wrong on this?
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2767.0;attach=14360;image)
The diagram is for a C4A ringer in a 500. It does not apply to the M-type ringer (Princess) or the P-type ringer (Trimline, Design Line, etc.) In the later types , the slate and slate-red wires are taps at 1000 ohms and 2600 ohms for tip party ID on 2MR lines (2-party measured rate).
Ordered a ringer and waiting for it to hook up. Thanks everyone for the help. Nice people Ron
The WESTERN ELECTRIC Model EIC External Bell Ringer from ebay came today. Any thoughts on how to hook it up. No directions. Any help would be great. see pics Thanks Ron
Seems your does not have the modular jack. In the better (more colorful image from another source) picture attached, the red and green wires from the jack would attach to the network.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/732-501-251-100-i8-jun70-e1-type-ringers
The above link is all about this extension ringer and the attached diagram is from that TCI document.
Looks like red and green from the line cord are attached to terminals 5 and 6.
Quote from: TelePlay on October 24, 2017, 05:28:49 PM
Seems your does not have the modular jack. In the better (more colorful image from another source) picture attached, the red and green wires from the jack would attach to the network.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/732-501-251-100-i8-jun70-e1-type-ringers
The above link is all about this extension ringer and the attached diagram is from that TCI document.
Looks like red and green from the line cord are attached to terminals 5 and 6.
Quote from: TelePlay on October 24, 2017, 05:28:49 PM
Seems your does not have the modular jack. In the better (more colorful image from another source) picture attached, the red and green wires from the jack would attach to the network.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/732-501-251-100-i8-jun70-e1-type-ringers
The above link is all about this extension ringer and the attached diagram is from that TCI document.
Looks like red and green from the line cord are attached to terminals 5 and 6.
Thanks but very hard for a newbie to see where the wires go. I know the red and green of the phone go somewhere and the red and green of the line go somewhere. I think thats all it is but where do they go on my pic????
You say 5 and 6 go to line red and green but where does the red and green of the phone go? Thanks Ron
Others who know better than I can correct me if I'm wrong.
The red and green of the line cord would go to L1 and L2 in the phone, whatever terminals that may be in the pay phone.
A two conductor wire, say red and black, would attach to the same terminals that the red and green line cord wires attach to (to L1 and L2) in the phone. The other end of the red and black wires would attach to Terminals 5 and 6 in the ringer.
It should be similar to the C4A ringer network (EDIT: Not so, correct diagram posted below (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19024.msg196354#msg196354))
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2767.0;attach=14360;image)
The ringing capacitor (internal between A and K on the C4A ringer diagram) is also internal in the EC1 network and connected between terminals 5 and 7. If the ringer you have is wired correctly, the ringer should ring on an incoming call.
Others who have more experience with this ringer are asked to correct any of this if I got it wrong.
It is an extension ringer and does not need the phone to ring. The phone is needed to signal the CO that the receiver was picked up and the ring voltage ended to the phone.
This little box has an inlet that says phone and a outlet saying line. That should mean both connect in this box. Thanks Ron
It's made as a pass through for a Princess phone. If you take the line into the ringer first, then you have to use the outlet to go to the phone. If you take the line first and run a wire to #5 & #6, then you do not need the outlet.
This box has more than needed to make a ringer ring for a pay phone. All that is needed is the black and red wired from the ringer being connected to line cord red and green and the slate and slate red wires of the ringer connect to each other with a capacitor. If you want to take the line cord to the ringer first, which I don't think they did with payphones since pay phones were meant to operate without a ringer, then you need to attach a modular cord to the outlet and the center two pair would be run to the phone and attached to where ever line cord red and green would have attached.
All of my extension ringers on princes and pay phones are not pass through. The phone's line is extended to the ringer so the phone will work, dial out and answer, without the ringer being present.
Another way to look at is this ringer could be connected to a wall jack in another room and the phone connected to another jack elsewhere. The ringer would ring until the phone was answered - an extension ringer. You are using an extension ringer right on the phone but it's the same thing as if in another room. Line cord to phone and the ringer input side connected to the same trerminals in the phone that have the line cord attached to them.
Now, didn't I do a good job of confusing you. I think poplar1 or others can say the same thing in 10 words or less - HELP!
I am totally confused.
I thought the phone would connect a red and green wire in this box at some numbered screws and the line would connect in this box a red and green wire to two other numbered screws. As the box says one side phone wire and one side line wire.
I don't know if your saying connect the phone to the line in the house with a plug. Than hook another wire to this box at two screws 5 and 6 and run another wire to the house phone line with a plug as before. Two separate lines?? Ron
This help?
Yes, " . . . connect the phone to the line in the house with a plug (into the wall jack and spade lugs to the terminals inside the phone). Then hook another wire (from the phone terminals where the wall cord is attached) to this box at two screws 5 and 6 . . . "
This ringer would then be at the end of the line, not in the middle.
I assume you would run a hidden wire from the phone to the ringer box coming in the back rather than using the modular jacks which would make the wire stand out.
All you need is a 2 conductor wire with spade lugs at each end to connect #5 in ringer to L1 in phone and #6 in ringer to L2 in phone.
Quote from: TelePlay on October 24, 2017, 07:02:19 PM
This help?
I think I got it.
You say to connect the red from the phone and the green from the phone to 5 and 6 of the box. Than connect red and green from the line to 5 and 6 of the box. Keeping the same color to the same screw. Is this it? Ron
Quote from: darticus on October 24, 2017, 07:24:33 PM
I think I got it.
You say to connect the red from the phone and the green from the phone to 5 and 6 of the box. Than connect red and green from the line to 5 and 6 of the box. Keeping the same color to the same screw. Is this it? Ron
You could do it that way. That would put the ringer between the wall jack and the phone so if the ringer went missing, the phone would not work. You would also have two wires going into / coming out of the ringer box.
Since payphones are attached to the phone line through the back plate from an opening in the wall, the other way is to connect the phone to the line directly through the back plate . . .
. . . and then run a pair of wires from the phone to the ringer hiding that wire as best possible (going through the mounting plate if there was an appropriate hole in the plate.
Exposed wires on payphones was not good in public situations. But, being in your home, such wire protection from vandalism is not that important.
You can wire it either way. Your way is line to ringer and then line to phone.
My way is line to phone and then line to ringer.
Colors to terminals don't mean anything, red and green are interchangeable on L1 and L2 and terminals #5 and #6. Color of wires does not matter either.
Either way will work, it's your choice. Sorry for confusing you.
Quote from: TelePlay on October 24, 2017, 07:02:19 PM
This help?
This is the correct diagram. Since the line, the ringer, and the phone are all wired in parallel, the line (from the wall jack, ATA, etc.) can be connected to 5 & 6 in the E1C first, or to L1 and L2 in the phone first.
Again, the C4A diagram does not apply. The line should not be connected directly to the black and red ringer wires in the E1C, Princess, or Trimline.
Quote from: poplar1 on October 25, 2017, 12:25:44 AM
This is the correct diagram. Since the line, the ringer, and the phone are all wired in parallel, the line (from the wall jack, ATA, etc.) can be connected to 5 & 6 in the E1C first, or to L1 and L2 in the phone first.
Again, the C4A diagram does not apply. The line should not be connected directly to the black and red ringer wires in the E1C, Princess, or Trimline.
Thanks, David. Yes, while it is similar, it is not correct and now with time, I've modified that diagram to match the EC1 wiring diagram. The similarity is that both ringers are 4 wire ringers but the connections are different, and quite simple on the EC1. Here it is:
===============
The red and green (L1 and L2) wires in parallel from the phone are attached to Terminals #5 and #6.
The slate and slat/red ringer wires are connected together on Terminal #1 of the EC1 network.
Ringer black wire is attached to Terminal #6
The ringer red wire is attached to Terminal #7
The internal capacitor is mounted between Terminals #5 and #7 completing the ring circuit.
===============
Now that I've had the time to modify the C4A ringer diagram, this should be correct and appropriate to the EC1 ringer.
Whatever whatever, It is hooked up using this diagram and working fine. I guess we can make this very confusing but actually it is very simple. Thanks all Ron
Glad to hear the ringer works. Sometimes the stuff on eBay not being tested comes in less than working state but WE stuff is rarely like that.
Post of picture of it mounted below, next to, your payphone.
Yes, I need to post technical stuff during the day and not the middle of the night, less words and more correct that way.