GPO 248 with Homemade Bellset

[andy1702]

Unfortunately spares are fairly common here in the UK, for all the wrong reasons!  The 'get rich quick merchants of e-bay dismantle perfectly good phones then sell the individual parts at an inflated price, showing absolutely no regard for the historic value or importance of the things they are scrapping. I try to make a point of never buying old parts individually because of this.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure that the parts you have there were originally together in service, even as a refurbished unit. If that's ghe case then maybe you'd be better separating them again into what they originally were?

If it was all originally together then it looks like it's the master phone from a home exchange system, which allows you to connect up to two internal extensions. However you'd need two more compatible phones and possibly a box full of relays to make it work. I've never really looked deep into it because I don't have one here.

It looks like yours was butchered by someone to make it work as an ordinary stand-alone phone. Hence the small modern bell you found.

Andy

[Jack Ryan]

Unfortunately spares are fairly common here in the UK, for all the wrong reasons!  The 'get rich quick merchants of e-bay dismantle perfectly good phones then sell the individual parts at an inflated price, showing absolutely no regard for the historic value or importance of the things they are scrapping. I try to make a point of never buying old parts individually because of this.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure that the parts you have there were originally together in service, even as a refurbished unit. If that's ghe case then maybe you'd be better separating them again into what they originally were?

If it was all originally together then it looks like it's the master phone from a home exchange system, which allows you to connect up to two internal extensions. However you'd need two more compatible phones and possibly a box full of relays to make it work. I've never really looked deep into it because I don't have one here.

It looks like yours was butchered by someone to make it work as an ordinary stand-alone phone. Hence the small modern bell you found.

Andy

Not at all. There is no additional equipment needed apart from the extension phones and a modest power supply. The diagrams I posted show that.

It is certainly true that people in the UK strip phones and try to make a killing on the parts. I would look for mostly complete but broken versions of what you want to get parts. You will need to balance the high cost of individual parts with the cost of postage of wrecked telephones.

Regards
Jack

[Slal]

Yes, chop jobs might be all too common.  Most said "Modern Transmitter/Receiver Fitted!" as if that's something I want. 

One phone I looked at advertised a double gong ringer made to fit inside the 44 bellset by removing some of its internals.  So basically, that's like a 26 with trick looking buttons & a lever.  Passed on that one.

As for my poor "Bitsa Chop" (I like that word so that's what I've started calling the phone now.  My 'bista-chop' project!) 

Some work to try to get all those connections back, but I think it's doable.  Will just be awkward since about 15cm of work space once they're hooked together.  And I'm paranoid about breaking the Bakelite prongs. 

Parts might be the killer though.  Majority of sellers don't ship to USA for some reason.  Probably delays in getting past understaffed US Customs Dept or something.  Very nice looking bellset 44 with wiring harness & buzzer still in it, but UK only.  Made me realize how spoiled I am. 

As for intercom, thought I'd try it but it's a puzzle.  Someone capped off the orange wire, and arranged them as shown in attachments.  You need orange for buzzer & hookswitch right?

Might be something very simple.  I'm hoping I just got the battery connections wrong. 

The seller removed all the wires out of the steel battery eliminator box, so I'm just going by conventions.  "Red/ring/return (-)/rightside - Green for greenbacks a (+) and leftside."

So battery hooked up as: L1 tip (+)  and L2 ring (-)

While a bit of a digression, maybe someone can spot what I'm missing. 

Thanks for replies & help. 

--Bruce

[Slal]

Update if anyone is interested.  Still don't know why orange was capped off unless someone didn't want the ringers. 
Then it occurred to me-- you can't page yourself!

Hooked up a spare AE ringer from another intercom phone, and works perfectly.

Still puzzling about that diagram though.  White & black hook switch wires are missing.  Don't suppose I'll ever solve that one, but at least I know the intercom phone should work as intended.

[andy1702]

I probably can't be much forther help with this one I'm afraid as it's not a type I'm very familiar with. Best of luck though. Would be good if you could restore it.

[Slal]

I probably can't be much forther help with this one I'm afraid as it's not a type I'm very familiar with. Best of luck though. Would be good if you could restore it.

Thanks.  Full restore (with buzzer) looking less & less likely as most eBay sellers who do ship international specifically omit USA for some reason.  Odd, unless it's our US Customs Dept., long delays, and eBay shipping deadlines.

Be lucky to get a GPO 64 type ringer for it.  They look cool, but ones at the on-line shops... Probably highway robbery!

Once bitten twice shy.   

Still a nice addition though & wiring it gives me something to do until the weather is nicer outside.   Then it's time to work in the garden.   

--Bruce

Edit: 

While looking at 64 type ringers, was intrigued by the ring pattern. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKhDXGPiZw

If I have BT to rj11 adapter, would it have same pattern?  Or, on POTS line in US, it would simply ring like any other?

Finally, for a bit of fun, I thought "Ma Bell" (in the 70's) was source of complaints, but a spoof about GPO seems they had problems too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZlaxLO1Vaw 

Crossed lines?  Oooops!   

[twocvbloke]

While looking at 64 type ringers, was intrigued by the ring pattern. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKhDXGPiZw

If I have BT to rj11 adapter, would it have same pattern?  Or, on POTS line in US, it would simply ring like any other?

That's the UK Ringing cadence (0.4 On, 0.2 Off, 0.4 On, 2 Off, all measured in seconds), and no, the ringing cadence would be whatever the line it's connected to is, so if it's on a line with the US 2-4 cadence, it'll ring with the 2s On, 4s off...

[Slal]

Yes, specific to country is what I thought, but would've been cool to have it ring with its own special cadence or pattern. 

Going OT a bit, how does that work?  Watched a movie about Cuban Missile Crisis and star of the film had two wall phones in dining room.  One was black & rang normally.  The other was a manual and bright red.  They'd be sitting at dinner and if the dreaded red telephone rang (with its special pattern) his wife & kids knew that Dad was probably off to the White House.

Is phone with its own distinctive ring even possible, or just Hollywood?

Meanwhile a quick update to my little "bitsa-chopped" phone project if anyone interested.  Got a mail from a member here who suggested (after looking at ringers on eBay-UK) that I call a seller in Essex.

Very nice gentleman, who has some NOS 64D ringers from the 70's I think.  (Didn't know they were still making them by then.)

Anyway, hopefully it will be here by the time I get phone to bellset hooked back up.

Now the question or confusion becomes companion phone.  One diagram had 306; Jack ruled that one out and suggested a 328 with middle button to call 'Main.'

Guy in Essex disagreed and said I'd need a 314... 

Assuming an auction site was featuring a working set, what phone might be on the right in the attachment, or can anyone tell without opening it up?

They might both work?  As you can tell, I'm new to this sort of thing.  : )

Scroll down to 'details' at:

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t332.htm

This is lots of fun, and hopefully might help others if decide to navigate the vagaries of GPO phones or try to do a plan set. 

--Bruce

[Jim Stettler]

I used to have distintive ringing as a service from the phone company. I had it set to ring distintive for my Mother-in-law and on incoming long distance.
Jim S.

[Jack Ryan]

Now the question or confusion becomes companion phone.  One diagram had 306; Jack ruled that one out and suggested a 328 with middle button to call 'Main.'

Guy in Essex disagreed and said I'd need a 314... 

He is not right, a Tele 314 is a variation of a 312 which is for shared sercive (party line).

See the 314 info:
http://www.britishtelephones.com/t314.htm
http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N414.pdf


This is what I said earlier:
Definitely not a 312. I posted a link previously for the configuration N diagram that shows the extension phones (N4308 page 3). The extensions are normal CB auto telephones but with a call button to signal the main station. One is:

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N428.pdf (a Tele 328)

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t328.htm

The 328 can be configured with up to three buttons for various purposes. In this case, you need a single call button.

There is an alternative listed that is the same but with a different bell


The alternative I mentioned was shown in N4308

Regards
Jack

[andy1702]

I'm not sure which phone you need, but I'd tend to side with what the guy in Essex said and say a 314 would probably be ok. As far as I'm aware, all you need is one button (which I believe a 314 has) to energize the buzzer in your master phone to alert the person there to  give you the outside line. At least that's my undrestanding from what I've read.

Regarding the ring cadence, it is definitely possible to change it the phone in question is hooked up to an ATA. The Grandstream 502 has settings which you change to make attached phones ring however you want them to.

Andy.

[Jack Ryan]

I'm not sure which phone you need, but I'd tend to side with what the guy in Essex said and say a 314 would probably be ok. As far as I'm aware, all you need is one button (which I believe a 314 has) to energize the buzzer in your master phone to alert the person there to  give you the outside line. At least that's my undrestanding from what I've read.

Andy.

I would have thought that the circuits to which I posted links would have made the situation clear. Yes, a 314 has one button but so does a 310 and a 312. You could use any of those but you would need to rewire them first and change the button label. A properly configured 328 (the button is labelled "Call") is already wired and labelled correctly.

The teles 310, 312 and 314 are all party line telephones with a "Call Exchange" button.

There are, of course, many paths to the same destination.

Regards
Jack

[Slal]

@Jim

I remember those as a kid.  My Dad was in the Air Force and must've had the same service on a special phone used aboard ships, or maybe inside missile silos.  Distinctive ring, and the handset instantly locked in place until phone stopped ringing.    

@Andy

That's interesting about the buttons.  I suppose if someone knows what I would like, they could probably get it to work.  Right now I'm sort of stumped on the phone working as its own device, or pressing the button to "disable" telco line, and just talk to 428.

I figure if I can sort of puzzle this one out, might be ready to consider a small PBX.  Right now, that sort of stuff is *way* beyond me, but I haven't studied it either.

@Jack

Am looking at N-4308

Bell 64D & battery (3V?) looks fairly straight forward.

Might need a connector block, or make one.

If reading N-4308 and N-428 correctly, it's the hook switch & button that are important unless want a real can of worms.

Guessing there weren't that many 328's made in this config., or if there were-- they probably got refurbished as 312s & returned to circulation?

Might have to be patient, and wait to find one that was wired for planset to start with.

--Bruce

PS:
Interesting how sellers seem very interested in selling me a phone, then-- when I tell them what I want to do...

Well I haven't heard back from them.  : 0 !  Either they're looking for one (I hope) or they can't make a quick sale & have blown it off.  : )

The vagaries of international commerce.   

[Jack Ryan]

@Jack

Am looking at N-4308

Bell 64D & battery (3V?) looks fairly straight forward.

Might need a connector block, or make one.

Yes, that bit is straight forward.

If reading N-4308 and N-428 correctly, it's the hook switch & button that are important unless want a real can of worms.

Yes, and the label.

Guessing there weren't that many 328's made in this config., or if there were-- they probably got refurbished as 312s & returned to circulation?
Might have to be patient, and wait to find one that was wired for planset to start with.

There were quite a few at the time but many have suffered refurbishment by GPO workshops becoming something like the 312

If you can find one, or one of the alternatives listed, life will be much easier.

Regards
Jack

[Slal]

Guess that about wraps it up then.

Good things happen for people who wait, or however the old saying goes.

Will update if ever get companion phone.  Or a buzzer for that matter... 

Thanks everyone, for replies

--Bruce