Line Cord / 505A Plug Questions for 702B Princess Phone

[Doug Rose]

How do you remove the restraint and have it come off so perfectly. I have ruined move cords this way. What is you secret???.....Doug

[bingster]

I use a very small screwdriver with it's tip sharpened like a chisel.  That can be driven into the joint and twisted to open the restraint slightly.  From there a pair of small screwdrivers inserted in each end of the gap and twisted in opposite directions will usually open it enough to slip the cord through.  This is a very fiddly process, though, and most of the time I just cut the restraint off.

[Doug Rose]

thanks Darrin....I will give it a shot....Doug

[GLadstone]

Hi Russkirk,

I just saw something interesting.  The little spade logo on the first photo.  Could the explanation be that simple?  Because of the spade tips???

If you are referring to the results of my continuity tests, then yes-- see paul-f's response here.

If you are wondering why it took me so long to figure out why the plug end of my line cord should have spade tip terminals at the end, here are some more of my initial thoughts on that (in case it helps you educate other newbies in the future):

I noticed the four spade logo initially as well, but wondered why there was a number four in front of in when there were five wires / conductors in the line cord...

I had noticed in the modified cord (linked to in my first post: modified opened 505A plug) that one of the wires was attached to the screw in the center of the plug, but wondered if this was standard or if the fifth wire was supposed to be "doubled" up" in the cord tip guide with one of the other wires / conductors.

But now that I know what I know, it all seems that much simpler! 
With jsowers assistance, I now know that I need to add spade tip terminals to the red, green, black, and white (because my white is attached to the Lamp Terminal Network and not to G on the 4010 B Net) wires / conductors and insert them into the cord tip guide while adding a small loop restraint to the yellow wire and attach it to the screw.

12-22-2016 Edit:
Small loop restraint: Same part number, new link:
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/restraint-loop-small-each.html
End edit.

The WE symbols and lingo only seems cryptic until you learn to decipher it! 

===

Hi paul-f,

The construction of the line cord conductors is quite interesting.

...

There's some creative engineering there.

Indeed!

Thank you for sharing that! 

Take care,
GLadstone

[bingster]

With jsowers assistance, I now know that I need to add spade tip terminals to the red, green, black, and white (because my white is attached to the Lamp Terminal Network and not to G on the 4010 B Net) wires / conductors and insert them into the cord tip guide while adding a small loop restraint to the yellow wire and attach it to the screw.

There must be something lost in the translation, as nothing should be attached to the center screw.  That screw attaches the cover to the base of the plug, and serves no electrical or other purpose.  The plug is designed for a four-conductor cord, rather than a five-conductor cord, so the fifth conductor will serve no purpose in your final setup.  You'll only need the four conductors: two for the telephone service, two to power the lamp.

[GLadstone]

Hi bingster,

There must be something lost in the translation, as nothing should be attached to the center screw.  That screw attaches the cover to the base of the plug, and serves no electrical or other purpose.  The plug is designed for a four-conductor cord, rather than a five-conductor cord, so the fifth conductor will serve no purpose in your final setup.  You'll only need the four conductors: two for the telephone service, two to power the lamp.

Hmm...
Still a bit confused over here... 

First, let me state that I realize that the center screw will not sent any power / current / electricity to anything that may be attached to it.

Second, just for clarification, I got the idea for the small loop from the picture of the modified plug-- not from jsowers.
I thought it might serve as a way to keep the extra wire / conductor in place so it does not interfere with the other wires and/or cause them to become loose.


So, what does the loop do in the modified plug (that appears to attach to the center screw)?:
I can't tell what it is really attached to (a wire / conductor or the insulation), so is that just a different form of restraint for the insulation (loop versus wing tip)?

If the small loop in the modified plug picture is a restraint for the insulation (and not for wire / conductors), how should I finish the yellow wire in my line cord (the one that will not be connected to one of the four "powered prongs" in the cord tip guide)?
-Should I put a spade tip terminal on that too and then wrap it with electrical tape so it doesn't make contact with anything?
-Should I make a clean cut, then wrap it with electrical tape?
-Other?


I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again for your assistance,
GLadstone

[bingster]

I just realized what loop you're talking about, sorry about that.  I thought you were referring to a closed-loop lug instead of a spade lug for the ends of the conductors.  That restraint does, indeed, go on that screw to keep the cord from pulling out of the plug.  You don't need to worry about it, though, because you've got your wingband restraint, which will fit in the collar of the plug and do the same job.

How to deal with an unwanted conductor is a matter of preference, really.  Some will snip the conductor where it comes out of the cord, others prefer to leave them intact and tape them off.  Personally, I cut them.  If you look at Jonathan's photo, you'll see the two extra conductors in his six-conductor cord cut clean, leaving only four.  If you do this, there's no need to tape them, or worry about them further.  However, I'd swap the white conductor for the yellow one inside the phone, and snip the white at each end.  The reason is that the colors come in definite pairs, red goes with green, yellow with black, white with blue.  It makes no electrical difference to the phone of course, but phone people love tradition, and the traditional four colors you should see in the plug are red, green, yellow, and black.

Here's Jonathan's photo showing the cut conductors, and the four standard colors left intact:

[GLadstone]

Hi bingster,

I just realized what loop you're talking about, sorry about that.  I thought you were referring to a closed-loop lug instead of a spade lug for the ends of the conductors.

If a "closed loop lug" attaches to a wire / conductor, then, in a way, I was!    Just goes to show how confusing things can be when you don't have an actual phone / part to look at to compare to your own! I couldn't really tell what was going on in the photo of the modified plug.

Thanks for taking the time to explain it!

How to deal with an unwanted conductor is a matter of preference, really.

Ahh! Thanks for sharing that!

However, I'd swap the white conductor for the yellow one inside the phone, and snip the white at each end.  The reason is that the colors come in definite pairs, red goes with green, yellow with black, white with blue.  It makes no electrical difference to the phone of course, but phone people love tradition, and the traditional four colors you should see in the plug are red, green, yellow, and black.

I'll have to look into that. Currently, the yellow wire / conductor is shorter than the white wire / conductor inside the base of the phone (it is probably half-the-length to one-third-the-length shorter than the white), but I'm also going to have to cut a few inches of the insulation off the plug end if I use the white wire / conductor (I'd like to try to save as much insulation as I can)...

Do the wires / conductors slide through the insulation (i.e., would I be able to "lengthen" the yellow wire on the base side of the phone by sliding it through the insulation?)?

I don't have the phone open right now, but, I'm thinking that I may be able to "save" the most line cord by using the white wire / conductor instead of yellow.
I'll be sure to keep you updated when more parts come in and I take the phone apart again...

Thanks again for your time and assistance!

Take care,
GLadstone

[bingster]

If your conductors are different lengths inside the phone, then it's probably best to stick with the white one, rather than go to the trouble of extra stripping to use the yellow.  Your poor cord has really been through the mill!

[GLadstone]

Hi bingster,

If your conductors are different lengths inside the phone, then it's probably best to stick with the white one, rather than go to the trouble of extra stripping to use the yellow.

That is kinda what I was thinking as well, but I'll still take a close look at the yellow wire / conductor the next time I open the phone...

Your poor cord has really been through the mill!

I'm surprised it still has a plug and that someone took the time to attach the wires into the cord tip guides!
I've been wondering who it was:
-The customer who leased and then bought the phone (it still has a dial card and a sticker showing the date of purchase)?
-A service person from the phone company?
-Other?

One mystery that will probably not be solved...

In any case, I am enjoying the discussions here, learning a lot, and looking forward to fixing the line cord!
I hope you guys aren't sick of my questions yet! 

Take care,
GLadstone

[paul-f]

When restoring phones, my preference is to avoid any action that's not reversible, whenever possible.  I also try to avoid removing any of the original material -- or remove as little as possible.

In this case, I would not cut unused conductors, but would find a way to store them.  Since the spade tip is missing, a clean cut as close to the end as possible makes sense.

You never know whether a future need will arise where that conductor would be useful.  (One of the other conductors may go bad, so a spare could be used.  You might transplant the cord to another phone, etc.)

Once it's cut, it's cut.

[jsowers]

I agree with Paul about not trimming off the wire, and for the record, the cut conductors in my picture were done by the installer. I also agree that GLadstone should use the white wire if she can, since it's the correct length inside the phone. Considering some of the tinsel has intermittent or no connection on the end of the mounting cord, she will need to strip back the insulation anyway on some of the conductors to get a connection.

[GLadstone]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to thank everyone again for all your help in setting me on the right path to properly fixing my phone cord/plug!

I took a lot of pictures as I was going through the repair process as I figured it may help others along the way.

1) Parts I needed to purchase:
-Spade Tip Terminals (from DMAN602 on Ebay)


2) Uncrimped diameter is about 3/32"


3) -Wingband Restraint (from Phone Co, Inc.: http://phonecoinc.com/topic.asp?map=1&horh=home&gorl=list&group=misc&category=Cords&topic=01007)


4) Uncrimped diameter is about 5/16"


5) -Four-Prong Jack Adapter (from Phone Co, Inc.: http://phonecoinc.com/topic.asp?map=1&hhrl=home&gorl=group&group=misc&category=Acc&topic=01017)


6) Tools I needed to purchase:
-Crimping Tool (from OldPhoneWorks.com: http://www.oldphoneworks.com/crimping-tool.html)


7) Diameter about 1/16" for 22-26 hole for spade lug crimping.


8 )


9) -Wire Stripper Tool (Vise Grips 2078309 from local hardware store)


10) -Antique tool I used for tightening Wingband Restraint (from local flea market, more photos can be seen below)


Other Tools Needed for Repair:
-Screwdriver
-Scissors
-Box Cutter
-Blue Tape / Marker
-Electrical Tape
-Ruler/Tape Measure
-Actron CP7677 (Used for testing continuity)

---

Here is a quick overview of how the 702B Princess Phone line cord is wired from the phone to the 505A four pronged plug:
Lamp Terminal          -->line cord-->          505A plug
3=white                     -->line cord-->          Y
4=black                    -->line cord-->           B

4010 B Network:       -->line cord-->           505A plug
G=Yellow                  -->line cord-->           electrical tape
L2=Red                   -->line cord-->            R
L1=Green                -->line cord-->           G

---

11) A word of caution for all the other newbies attempting a repair like this:
Be really slow and methodical when cutting through the main/outer insulation as it does not take much to nick the insulation on the inner wires/conductors.


On the bright side, this early mistake allowed me more leeway in experimenting with spade tip terminal application and technique...

---

12) First, a closer look at the way the things were connected before any work was done:
Overview of 505A prong when first opened:


13) Each conductor/wire is crimped inside one end of the "socket-type terminal assembly" (the copper "H-looking part"):


14) Another view of each conductor/wire is crimped inside one end of the "socket-type terminal assembly" (the copper "H-looking part"):


---

Start of repair/experimentation on "nicked conductors" (see above):
-Cut off each conductor/wire from each "socket-type terminal assembly" (the copper "H-looking part").

15) -Loosen/Re-Open copper loops on terminal assemblies to be able to fit spade tip terminals.


16) -Fit "socket-type terminal assembly" back  into block to check fit.


17) -Make sacrificial conductors / spade tips to test for electrical continuity and practice spade tip crimping technique. Yellow conductor does not have copper tinsel bent back; green conductor does-- both passed conductivity test (More pictures about the technique I used to follow). 


18) Stopping point for "experimental" repair as the outer insulation needed to be further cut back...


To be continued...

Thank you again for all your help and support!

Take care,
GLadstone

12-22-2016 Edit:
Removed Picasa Web Album Text Links

12-27-2016 Edit:
Insert image links updated from Picasa Web Albums to GLadstone's CRPF member photo collection.

[GLadstone]

Hi Everyone,

Continued from Part 1 above.
Repairing 702B Princess Phone cord and 505A Plug.

For ease of reference, once again, here is a quick overview of how the 702B Princess Phone line cord is wired from the phone to the 505A four pronged plug:
Lamp Terminal          -->line cord-->          505A plug
3=white                     -->line cord-->          Y
4=black                    -->line cord-->           B

4010 B Network:       -->line cord-->           505A plug
G=Yellow                  -->line cord-->           electrical tape
L2=Red                   -->line cord-->            R
L1=Green                -->line cord-->           G

1) This repair is the "final" repair after "nicking" the conducting wires when cutting the insulation on the first attempt.


2) This is the starting place for the final repair (i.e., the stopping point for the experimental repair as described in part 1 above)


This part covers the following sections:
-Stripping Outer Insulation
-Spade Tip Terminal Installation Utilizing the Bent Back Copper Technique (as recommended by paul-f and jsowers)
-Attaching Wingband Restraint
-Testing Continuity

3) Stripping Outer Insulation:
Cut off nicked conductors/wires for fresh start.


4) Measuring length of new conductors (i.e. how much insulation to strip). Placed blue painter's tape to mark cut area/guide cut.


5) Getting ready to make the new cut. Blue painter's tape to mark cut area/guide cut.


6) Cut successful-- no nicks.


7) Insulation removed.


8 ) String between conductors/wires removed.


Spade Tip Terminal Installation Utilizing the Bent Back Copper Technique (as recommended by

paul-f and

jsowers earlier in this post):

9) Stripping insulation off white conductor/wire with Vise Grips tool.


10) Separating the copper wire from the string insulation.


11) Cut string insulation off.


12) Bend copper wire back.


13) Apply spade tip over bent back copper wire for increased conductivity.


14) Close-up view of placement of spade tip in crimping tool.
Hold conductor/wire in spade tip terminal while placing closed ("U" shaped bottom) of spade tip toward 22-26 marking.


15) Make sure the tool closes tightly to ensure good crimp.


16) Spade tip terminal crimped on white conductor/wire.


17) Testing continuity. Lamp Terminal 3 = White --> line cord --> white spade tip terminal.


--Repeat procedure for all other conductor/wires.--

18) Spade tip terminal crimped on all conductors/wires. Electrical tape placed on "extra" yellow conductor/wire.


19) Attaching Wingband Restraint:
Tightening wingband restraint with tool found at flea market (not specifically designed for phone repair).
Tool Patent information: http://www.google.com/patents/US1724697 ; http://www.google.com/patents/US2072359


20) Another view: Tightening wingband restraint with tool found at flea market (not specifically designed for phone repair).
Tool Patent information: http://www.google.com/patents/US1724697 ; http://www.google.com/patents/US2072359


21) Tool opened after tightening.
Tool Patent information: http://www.google.com/patents/US1724697 ; http://www.google.com/patents/US2072359


22) Close-up view of wingband restraint fit in 505A plug.


23) Different angle: Close-up view of wingband restraint fit in 505A plug.


24) Finished repair near tape measure.


25) Finished repair: "open."
Spade tip terminals plugged-in to block/cord tip guide.


26) Testing Continuity:
Finished repair: "closed."
Clockwise from top left: R, GN, BK, Y.
Testing continuity of Y. Lamp Terminal 3 = White --> line cord --> white spade tip terminal inserted in Y slot in 505A plug.


27) Finished repair: "closed."
Clockwise from top left: R, GN, BK, Y.
Testing continuity of BK. Lamp Terminal 4 = Black --> line cord --> black spade tip terminal inserted in BK slot in 505A plug.


28) Finished repair: "closed."
Clockwise from top left: R, GN, BK, Y.
Testing continuity of R.  4010 B Network L2 = Red --> line cord -- > red spade tip terminal inserted in R slot in 505A plug.


29) Finished repair: "closed."
Clockwise from top left: R, GN, BK, Y.
Testing continuity of GN. 4010 B Network L1 = Green --> line cord -- > green spade tip terminal inserted in GN slot in 505A plug.


Well, I hope that was clear and helpful!

Thanks again for all the help and support in guiding me through this process!

I am still researching/learning about the 2012C transformer, so I have yet to plug the phone in the wall to see how it works and/or if there are any other issues that need to be addressed-- one step at a time, right? 

Take care,
GLadstone

12-22-2016 Edit:
Removed Picasa Web Album Text Links

12-27-2016 Edit:
Insert image links updated from Picasa Web Albums to GLadstone's CRPF member photo collection.

[jsowers]

Gee, GLadstone, I had forgotten all about this project from four years ago. I'm glad you're finally completing it and taking all those pictures and making comments along the way. You are quite thorough! I hope there are two parts-a top and a bottom half-to your restraint that holds the wingband. I only saw one half. I didn't look at the first page, so it could be there somewhere.

Thank you for making the pictures fairly small and easy to load. I can't wait for part two!