I picked this phone up assuming it was Nile Green. when I received the phone, I opened it up to see a nice light blue color. I have a couple questions I hope someone can help me with. Is this phone actually blue faded to green, or is the green faded to blue on the inside. The phone has almost no shrinkage, but the base shows some corrosion. Hope to start cleaning the phone up tomorrow, but would like to know which color is correct.
Nice find Dave! My guess is it is originally blue as the inside of the handset and base, fading to the greenish color. Very nice my friend....Doug
Did *any* company make a light blue telephone before 1957?
Doesn't AE orchid fade to light blue?
Quote from: wds on August 05, 2021, 06:23:10 PM
......would like to know which color is correct.
The inner areas of your AE40 which have received little to no exposure to UV show the correct colour.
This thread by Teleplay explains the process really well, very good images too:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=23386
Below:
Image one, two, interior and exterior - Orchid AE40.
Image three below - Royal Blue AE40.
Image four below - Jade Green AE40.
Image five and six, exterior and interior - Nile Green.
Close up of interiors, adjacent for comparison, yours to top. Nile Green underneath.
From the examples available on the AE colour chart, your phone is likely (or was intended to be) Nile Green.
If the exterior cleans up (chemically sanded) to be more of a light blue, and not the Nile Green colour, it may have been a special order/one off/short run. That possibility would need to be researched further. Did AE ever produce a light blue shade AE40?
Let us know if you manage to source a photo of a near match blue AE40.
ETA: Any member here got a Nile Green AE40, who could add a photo or two onto this thread - of inside and/or the handset with endcaps removed?
:)
My guess would be Orchid. From the examples we have seen in the past they fade to an even blue color. Great find. Can't wait to see it cleaned up.
The orchid ones are blue on the outside and orchid inside.
Here's the phone cleaned up. As I don't see a light blue on the AE color chart, so my best guess is that it's a Nile Green faded in reverse. Instead of the outside fading, the inside faded and turned blue.
Quote from: wds on August 06, 2021, 05:29:47 PM
As I don't see a light blue on the AE color chart, so my best guess is that it's a Nile Green faded in reverse. Instead of the outside fading, the inside faded and turned blue.
I doubt that's the case but it certainly is an unsolved mystery.
You can test your theory by sanding off a very small area area to see if the blue turns green. Use 320 or 400 grit to remove a thin layer.
The exterior is so uniform in color (as in under the handset where it sits on the cradle, it doesn't appear to have the color change characteristics seen on every phone to date. I would not touch that green exterior because it is so uniform, and unique.
Or, you have a custom made light blue phone that turned the expected and knowing that AE didn't put the R&D money into producing color plastics, their colors change faster than WE plastics and it almost seems some AE colors significantly change by looking at them cross eyed in the dark. The Orchid to light blue is a good example of formulating unstable (short lived) chromophores to get that color.
This Nile Green AE40 is on the auction site. The inner shade of blue does not appear to be unusual.
Quote from: wds on August 06, 2021, 05:29:47 PM
Here's the phone cleaned up. As I don't see a light blue on the AE color chart, so my best guess is that it's a Nile Green faded in reverse. Instead of the outside fading, the inside faded and turned blue.
It came out great Dave, you did a great job. Sure looks like Nile Green to me...at least on the outside....it is find of the month...Doug
Bumping this thread in view of another AE40 which sold via the auction site, and which is showing the same inner blue colouration
(thread here http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=26914).
After reading up and performing comparisons of those AE40 exampled, these are my conclusions.
Quote from: wds on August 05, 2021, 06:23:10 PM...Is this phone actually blue faded to green, or is the green faded to blue on the inside...
When made, I believe the AE Nile Green shade was actually more of a blue than a green. Maybe the clue is in the name - Nile (water; blue).
Quote...The inner areas of your AE40 which have received little to no exposure to UV show the correct colour.
Having Chemically Sanded many phones, I still believe this to be true.
Quote from: wds on August 06, 2021, 05:29:47 PM...my best guess is that it's a Nile Green faded in reverse. Instead of the outside fading, the inside faded and turned blue.
In all examples of Blue, in other and this material, evidence shows that over time Blues turn green, not the reverse.
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But the most convincing evidence as to the true colour of Nile Green comes from AE themselves, as exampled in the image below; The untouched and unexposed interior of a Nile Green AE40.
Quote from: FABphones on December 02, 2022, 03:55:05 AMMaybe the clue is in the name - Nile (water; blue).
Not necessarily. In french, this colour has a generic name: vert d'eau (water blue). It might be a commercial variation by AE, from sea green to nile green, to sound more exclusive.
I wouldn't rely too much on an old colour chart: paper's ageing/ fading and printing techniques, particularly of that era, can alter colours badly.
...
It always seems miraculous to me to see phones of that vintage in colour. In France, colour phones almost did not exist until 1963...
Quote from: FABphones on December 02, 2022, 03:55:05 AMHaving Chemically Sanded many phones, I still believe this to be true.
In all examples of Blue, in other and this material, evidence shows that over time Blues turn green, not the reverse.
The inside of the handset, the inside of the housing and areas under metal bands are protected from that which damages surface chromophores which changes surface color. Those areas are always the true color of the original phone as molded.
Color is created by the selective reflection of light. When all natural light is reflected, the color seen is white. When no light is reflected, the color we see is black.
When the blue chromophores on the surface of a plastic housing are damaged, they absorb or reflect different wavelengths and the plastic surface changes color. It is impossible for chromophores to be damaged in such a way that they become better reflectors of light, make the surface seem brighter or lighter, for example, to change from green to blue.
Blue phones turn green. Green phones just get darker. Pink phones turn to a salmon color. Light yellow phones turn to a beige color. Beige phones get darker. Red phones get darker. White phones turn to a creamy ivory. In all these cases, the color change is never the opposite.
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23386.0;attach=215476;image)
Once chromophores are damaged, they lose their intended ability to reflect and/or absorb specific wavelengths that make a plastic surface show a light blue, pink, light yellow or white wanted by the manufacturer when the phone was made. The chemistry of color changes in these new plastics was really an unknown since exposure to change agents over time was the only factor of color change.
I've never seen a green phone turn blue, for example the phone is blue and the area under the handset caps on a Princess shows green. This image is typical of the only color change I've seen a light blue phone go through over time.
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=219575;image)
The only way to get a phone back to its original color is to remove the discolored plastic layer, a very thin surface layer, to expose the original plastic, undamaged chromophores.
It is chemically impossible to "undamage" surface chromophores for colored phones using an oxidation process. In fact, except for original white plastics, oxidation methods on color phones may cause more discoloration, damage, which in the end requires surface removal.
Quote from: Etienne on December 02, 2022, 06:42:07 PM...printing techniques, particularly of that era, can alter colours badly.
I would agree.
Printing techniques have come on a long way, particularly since the introduction of Pantone (1962/63).
Pantone history:
https://www.nationalcoloursupplies.com/index.php?route=blog/blog/view&blog_id=10
https://www.pantone.com/