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RIngling Dial Card

Started by Doug Rose, January 11, 2016, 02:43:31 PM

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Doug Rose

Very cool dial card. Do you think it is real. Any Brothers  8) Its the Elephant in the room...... ::)....Doug


http://tinyurl.com/jd54ghr
Kidphone

Ktownphoneco

Yes, it was an actual telephone exchange name in Sarasota, FL.      Ringling Bros., moved it's headquarters to Sarasota in 1927, and and in recognition of the fact, the local telephone company created a telephone exchange with the name RIngling.     

Jeff Lamb

Fabius

Quote from: Doug Rose on January 11, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Very cool dial card. Do you think it is real. Any Brothers  8) Its the Elephant in the room...... ::)....Doug

Great number card but does that make it a $95 (current bid) phone?
Tom Vaughn
La Porte, Indiana
ATCA Past President
ATCA #765
C*NET 1+ 821-9905

andre_janew

It would depend on how much you like the circus!

Ktownphoneco

Probably not.       The seller seems to be trying to blend Northern and Western together as if they were a single entity, and while they had a very close working relationship, with Western owning shares in Northern, they were in fact, separate companies.       The seller makes reference to the set having a Northern F-1 handset, but avoids specifically stating that the rest of the set was made by Western.     If the induction coil and ringer were visible, it would help solve that issue, but they aren't.      With a lack of evidence to the contrary, I would have to assume that the entire set is a Northern.       Any company installing a 302 in the U.S.A. or Canada, would have to have been a Bell System company, and if the telco in Sarasota, FL., was part of the Bell System at that time (1953), they would have installed a Western 302, not a Northern.    I would have to assume, based on that theory, that the seller acquired a dial number card from the Sarasota, Fl., area, and placed it on the dial of a Northern set he restored for eBay.    The ironic part of the listing is the dial number card.     You spotted the significance of the exchange name "RIngling" Doug, but the seller never mentioned it.     Odd.

Jeff

Mr. Bones

The stamped patent dates in the base, shown in pic 9, certainly appear to be NE.

Cool phone, just not $95 cool, to me!

I'd give $25 for the dial card, though...

Best regards!
Sláinte!
   Mr. Bones
      Rubricollis Ferus

poplar1

The slot for the induction coil, visible without opening the set, was used only by NE. Sarasota is currently served by Verizon Florida, but before the GTE/Verizon merger, it was GTE....however NPA 941/ NXX 747 is currently Bradenton, FL.

Independent operating companies in the US bought phones from various manufacturers, including NE and WE. The WE sets were sold "without Bell markings." While NE sold 302s to Bell Canada and Uniphones to Canadian non-Bell companies, in the US they sold 302s to the  independents. (Did they even market Uniphones here?)

There is also no "operator" on the number plate.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Ktownphoneco

That's interesting.     I'm surprised Northern would be able to sell a 302 to independents in the U.S.A.      I was under the impression Western's policy during that time period, was "NOT" to sell Bell System sets like the 302 telephone set to independents, and as such, I would have expected that Western would have prohibited Northern from doing so as well.     I'll make note of that fact for future reference.

Yes, Northern probably sold more Uniphones to independents in the U.S.A., than it did in Canada, based solely on numbers.      Over the years, I've searched mostly "Northern Electric" on the eBay auction sight, and I've pulled up far more American listings for Uniphones than Canadian.     

Jeff
       

G-Man

#8
Quote from: Ktownphoneco on January 12, 2016, 12:25:31 PM
That's interesting.     I'm surprised Northern would be able to sell a 302 to independents in the U.S.A.      I was under the impression Western's policy during that time period, was "NOT" to sell Bell System sets like the 302 telephone set to independents, and as such, I would have expected that Western would have prohibited Northern from doing so as well.     I'll make note of that fact for future reference.

Yes, Northern probably sold more Uniphones to independents in the U.S.A., than it did in Canada, based solely on numbers.      Over the years, I've searched mostly "Northern Electric" on the eBay auction sight, and I've pulled up far more American listings for Uniphones than Canadian.     

Jeff
       

A very common misconception is that WECo did not sell outside of the Bell System. Evidence that Western was indeed selling to independents and others are the large numbers of telephone equipment with a "W"-suffix that frequently come up on eBay.
Here are some examples of WECo models that are listed in a circa 1950 catalogue:

       
  • 320EW-3
  • 320FW-3
  • 325JW
  • 325LW-3 
  • F1CW-3
  • 500MRW-3
  • 500PRW-3
  • 500 DRW-3
  • 500CRW-3
  • 500URW-3
  • 500ERW-3
  • 500FRW-3
  • 501CRW-3
  • 501DRW-3
  • 532BRW-3
  • 533BRW-3
  • 554BRW-3
  • 544BBRW-3
  • 545BBRW-3
  • 564HBRW-3
  • 565HBRW-3
  • 565GBRW-3
  • 565LBRW-3
  • 566MBRW-3
  • 558BRW-3
  • 556BRW-3
  • 566MBRW-3
  • 685AW-3
  • 687AW-3
  • 687BW-3
  • 687CW-3
  • 592AW
  • 592BW
  • 592CW

poplar1

Yes, the Graybar catalogs were provided to non-Bell customers. Perhaps after the 1956 decree, WE stopped selling phones to the independents. ITT and Stromberg-Carlson were also licensed to manufacture WE-like products; I don't recall what year that started.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Ktownphoneco

That's very interesting to say the least.      I'm aware of the Graybar catalog which clearly shows Western sets, but is there some documentation from Western stipulating that the use of the suffix letter "W" indicates equipment ear marked for independents ?     I've long suspected Northern's "T" series catalogs were printed for, and provided to, independent telco's.         The Uniphone for example, was made for independents, and the sets first appeared in their "T-6" catalogs in 1937.     Bell Canada chose not to use the Uniphone, and awaited the release of the model 302 sets by Western, for use and implementation in their territory, and like Bell System companies in the U.S.A., the 302 became the proverbial work horse of the Bell System in Canada.        The 302 didn't show up in Northern "T" series catalogs until 1954, which was pretty much the final version of the set prior to the release of the 500 series sets.     Since my theory has been that the "T" series catalogs were meant for independents, I would assume, that by 1954, it was the end of the party for the 302 in a manner of speaking.

G-Man :    I'm not doubting anything here, but is there any documentation that supports the theory that a W.E. set with the letter "W" in the suffix, was destined for an independent telephone company ?     Northern also used the letter "W" in the suffix of a few of their sets in 1954 as well, but I've never seen any sort of document or written statement specifying sets with the letter "W" incorporated into the suffix, were sets sold to independent telephone companies.

By the way, the pressed slot in the base of a Northern 302 to hold one end of the induction coil was a "late bloomer", which was employed by Northern in the last generation of 302 telephone sets.     The sets produced through most of the 1940's, used the same riveted internally mounted base bracket as Western sets.      I suspect Northern decided to copy it's own production techniques used to manufacture the last generation aluminum Uniphone bases.

Jeff Lamb

Babybearjs

Cool history lesson..... the phone company names a CO after a business....(or at least the founders)  and I though they just used places... anyway, the phone is worth the price... dial card or not. a 302 in working order, well taken car of is worth $200.... I hope it sells!
John

andre_janew