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Molasses rust removal solution pH notes

Started by TelePlay, March 16, 2020, 08:08:27 PM

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TelePlay

Quote from: FABphones on June 02, 2020, 02:15:24 PM
Thinking this through further for this application, the tank would need to be sizable so as not to cause issues with the heating elements.

Yes, that is true. I use a 5 gallon pail and one jar of molasses. A larger tub would require a second jar of molasses. I 5 gallon pail works well for most lanterns and it just fits into the wash machine laundry tub I use to hold the pail allowing any spills to go right down the drain.

And, as you can see, the pail is filled to the very top with water/molasses and each time the lantern is removed, some of the solution spills over the edge so any heating device that is not waterproof would not work well. Tipping the lantern to spill the solution out of the fuel tank also leads to some of the solution running down the sides of the pail.

I have been thinking of finding flat rubber sheeting, such as neoprene or similar flexible foam sheet product, to put on the outside of the plastic pail to better retain heat. It would have to be made to slip on and then removed after finishing a lantern to wash off the spilled sugar solution from both sides of the material.

The stuff is not cheap and not sure it is worth the cost since I really don't plan on doing another lantern other than maybe redoing the last 3 lanterns I restored in cold water that didn't turn out as well as I had seen with past lanterns.

Heat does make a difference in getting the chelating reaction started and to continue to extract the metal ions from the surface crud leaving only a muddy substance easily removed with a Brillo pad. If the sugars don't/can't work as they should, the surface curd is not converted to easily removable mud, and it really is mud in that the stuff removed with a Brillo pad is nothing more than dark brown dirt. As it comes off with wash water, it looks just the same as one would see when washing dirt off of a just used shovel to dig a hole before drying and oiling it for storage.

Cold water, water below 74┬░F just does not do that well.

Jim Stettler

Quote from: TelePlay on June 03, 2020, 03:08:15 PM


I have been thinking of finding flat rubber sheeting, such as neoprene or similar flexible foam sheet product, to put on the outside of the plastic pail to better retain heat.


You might try a disposable "space blanket. You can get them for $1-$5.
I have used a space blanket w/ backing for insulation between a cement floor and some carpet in my phone room at my last home.
It made a very noticeable difference in the room temp.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

TelePlay

Quote from: Jim Stettler on June 03, 2020, 05:30:25 PM
I have used a space blanket w/ backing for insulation between a cement floor and some carpet in my phone room at my last home. It made a very noticeable difference in the room temp.

Thanks for the tip. An option I didn't consider.

I looked into the mylar space blankets and the mylar blanket alone, which is very cheap, would not work for my application. While mylar is very good at retaining or reflecting radiated heat (sun light or body heat), it does nothing to stop conductive heat. Mylar placed on the outside of the plastic pail would not stop heat from leaving the plastic. Mylar does retain or reflect 90% of radiated heat but transmits close to 100% of conductive heat.

You said your space blanket had a backing and that backing is what is probably responsible for the insulating affects. Did you add your own the insulation, an additional product, with the space blanket or did you find a blanket that had the insulation sandwiched between the mylar layers?

Putting a non-waterproof blanket type material with encapsulated air pockets to stop conductive heat transfer gets me back to the original problem of the blanket getting soaked by sugar solution overflowing the pail and growing things over time, or rotting away, or both. That's why I was thinking of a 1/4" of neoprene glued to the outside of the pail to retain heat in the molasses solution.

As an FYI, I did find a really good insulating product call aerogel. The product info says "flexible aerogel composite blanket designed for insulating buildings and apparel. With a thermal conductivity of 14 mW m-1 K-1, Spaceloft is approximately two and half times better insulating than Styrofoam®." But, it's not cheap and the waterproof version is even less cheap. It would take three 12" by 12" sheets plus 2" to go around a 5 gallon pail (diameter about 12"). If anyone is interested in its different types and uses (NASA used it on the Mar's rovers), just google Aerogel.

I'm thinking my best quick and cheap and temporary option is simply two layers of small bubble wrap wrapped around the pail, about 7 feet long and a foot or so high. The air bubble have reasonably good insulating properties and the wrap can be removed and rinsed off for re-use. Plenty of bubble wrap in my basement. Might try that if I decide to redo my last few lanterns.

Jim Stettler

Quote from: TelePlay on June 04, 2020, 08:34:59 AM


You said your space blanket had a backing and that backing is what is probably responsible for the insulating affects. Did you add your own the insulation, an additional product, with the space blanket or did you find a blanket that had the insulation sandwiched between the mylar layers?


I'm thinking my best quick and cheap and temporary option is simply two layers of small bubble wrap wrapped around the pail, about 7 feet long and a foot or so high. The air bubble have reasonably good insulating properties and the wrap can be removed and rinsed off for re-use. Plenty of bubble wrap in my basement. Might try that if I decide to redo my last few lanterns.

The material had a thread matrix backing. the backing had no insulating value.
It was originally intended for high-end car covers, but the guy made cheap seams which scratched the high end cars. He went bankrupt from lawsuits.
Laying it on the cement and walking barefoot across the cement and space blanket you could tell a big difference.
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Regarding bubble wrap, I bought some heavy-duty, reflective bubble wrap made from Mylar at a garage sale years ago. It was 2' tall.
It was a couple of bucks and seemed worth the money. It is probably buried in my garage.

Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.