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AE40 Won't Dial Out

Started by gands-antiques, September 18, 2013, 06:08:55 PM

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gands-antiques

I bought this AE40 a few months ago and it worked perfectly.  Yesterday I picked it up from my work bench and now it won't dial out. It will receive calls and ring with incoming calls but it won't dial out. I swapped the line cord wires but it didn't help. During the line cord swapping one of the wires from the coil came lose from either the L1 or L2 terminal but I'm not sure which and the color of the wires is practically impossible to determine.

Any help with trouble shooting the AE40 will be appreciated.
=======================

* I have a 302 with the same scenario (won't dial out) today but it worked perfectly before. I can probably get it fixed but this is my first AE40 and I'm not familiar with the wiring on them. .

Thanks,
Gary

Phonesrfun

To me, it is highly suspect that two phones developed the same issue on the same day.  Who provides your dial tone?  A legacy telco, or a VoIP system?
-Bill G

G-Man

I'm not certain whether you meant that a wire broke-off of a terminal or was accidently removed while you were changing the line-cord wires.

Consulting the schematic wiring diagram shows that the induction coil wires do not directly terminate on L-1 or L-2. However, in the photo it does appear that a black wire from an unknown location is not terminated.

Additionally, the windings on the induction coil appear to have been disturbed and perhaps even damaged.

Also, Bill does have a point, have you checked your service with another known working rotary dial telephone?


G-Man

While it is difficult to diagnose the problems from the photos, I suspect that the un-terminated wire with the spade-lug should be connected to either screw terminal T or in the event that the wires on the condenser were reversed, to screw terminal 3.

If you find those terminals are already correctly connected, check the wires from the ringing condenser. I have used the color blue differentiate them from the rest. However, since you said it is ringing ok, they should not be at fault.

However this is only a guess since it is difficult to tell exactly how to the terminals are populated in the photo.

As far as dialing out, once you have verified that your telephone service hasn't changed and still supports rotary dialing, observe the pulsing contacts on the dial to make sure that they are properly opening and closing.

If the correct wires are properly connected to the dial terminals there should not be much room for error since the circuit is interrupted by the pulsing contacts.

gands-antiques

Thanks for the responses.  I tried (4) 302s and the AE40 and only one 302 will dial out so I don't think it is my Cox Internet/Phone supplier. I also tried another phone jack and cleaned the contacts with contact cleaner but they still won't dial out.

I thought the wire that isn't connected came lose when I was swapped the line cord wires.

I am going to be on another project for awhile but as soon as possible I will check the wiring with the color coded schematic that was provided (very helpful).

Thanks again for all of the responses.

Gary

poplar1

In the diagram, the brown wire from the hookswitch and orange wire from C are permanently connected to L1 and L2 respectively, so it's doubtful that these were disturbed when you replaced the line cord. The internal wires with spade tips are the brown wire from the smaller condenser on L1, and the green-white ringer wire on L2.

Also, there are no wires connected to 4 or 5 in the photo. Not sure if this means that you have a different version than the one shown in the diagram.

Does the dial tone go away if you temporarily disconnect the black dial lead?

On an AE 40, WE 302, SC 1243 or Kellogg 1000, if you unscrew the transmitter cap and remove the transmitter, there should be no dial tone (except if another phone on the same line goes off hook---monitor circuit).

Are you saying that 4 phones out of 5 won't dial out? ("I tried (4) 302s and the AE40 and only one 302 will dial out.")

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Phonesrfun

#6
Quote from: gands-antiques on September 19, 2013, 07:43:28 AM
Thanks for the responses.  I tried (4) 302s and the AE40 and only one 302 will dial out so I don't think it is my Cox Internet/Phone supplier.
Thanks again for all of the responses.

Gary

Sorry to keep bringing up the service provider aspect of the issue, but I feel it needs to be explored.  Traditional telcos have always been so rock solid in the last half century, that when there is trouble with a phone, we automatically assume that it is the phone itself.  After all, when you lift the receiver, you hear a dial tone loud and clear and no static, so if the phone doesn't dial out, it must be the phone.

I don't think that is a safe assumption these days where many, if not most of us have telco providers that come to us digitally, rather than over a pair of copper wires from a legacy phone company.

4 out of 5 phones, in this cas seem to not work.  At least one, maybe two have always been connected and apparently quit the same day, or at least it was noticed that they quit within a day of each other.  The other phones may have always been connected, or they were brought down off the shelf to test and only one of those works.

If any of them work, then it would seem tht Cox's ATA does support rotary dialing.

But, something did change, even if 4 phones didn't just lose their ability to dial out over night.

My experience which I admit is limited, is that the digital ATA's (I like to call them a miniature central office in a box) are controlled by program code that I swear some intern wrote.  They are often intolerant of slow dials or dial timing that is off as to make/break ratio.  They are also less tolerant of more ringers on the line at once than we are used to from the phone company.  The phone company is supposed to allow up to 5 standard 500 phones, (each with a REN equal to about 1 for a total REN of 5) on the line at any one time.  Internet telephone providers are not under that requirement.  For instance, the Magic Jack that first came out would not even ring one phone that has a "standard" mechanical ringer.

So, possible causes other than the phone itself:

Maybe Cox replaced your ATA with a new, less tolerant ATA
Maybe you connected one too many phones for the ATA to handle, or a single phone with a very high REN
Possible house wiring issue, but probably not

You can certainly work on any one phone, and perhaps adjusting the dial to exact standards will help, but it just seems so interesting that the issue is with so many phones all at once.

By the way, when I say "ATA", that stands for Analog Terminal  Adapter" and is often called a special purpose router.  In any case it is the box where an internet signal goes in and one or two jacks for telephone service come out the back.

-Bill G

G-Man

Four out of five instruments do not work!

I think Bill probably has it nailed with his excellent synopsis regarding ATA's.

When you say that they will not dial out, after you lift the handset to obtain dial-tone, what do you hear in the receiver after the dial returns? Do you continue to hear dial-tone or talk battery?

What has recently changed with your telephone service? Did the cable company changed-out your ATA?
Just for grins, what is the name of the manufacturer and the model number of your ATA. It would be interesting to contact the manufacturer or the cable company's customer support to see if the dialing parameters are programmable.

You may have to end up sending your dials to Steve Hilsz for cleaning and calibration.

It also may be advisable to obtain a Panasonic KX-TA624 or 824 key system to test your dial instruments with.

Or if you can find a 616 for a song then it will also serve your purposes, but since they are at the end of their service life you should not pay too much over $25.00 for one.

Phonesrfun

-Bill G

gands-antiques

I  just returned from a 5 day trip to Richardson TX (from Oklahoma) to attend an antique show where my wife set up a booth to sell her antiques.

I will try all of the phones again tonight and if they still don't work I will call Cox to see if they made any changes.  I agree 3 out of 4 phones is sure suspect.

With our Cox system I have successfully operated (one at a time) many 500s, 302s and 202s with subsets.

I currently have a working 102 with subset connected all of the time to a double modular socket with our cordless house phone base.   

I'll let you all know how it goes tonight.

Thanks to all for the great help & information!!

Gary

gands-antiques

I just tested the 4 phones (AE40 and three 302s) and none of them will dial out.  I called COX my phone service provider and they said they upgraded their system and rotary phones won't work on it any more.

I tried my 102 and a 500 and they both work. I decided to work on the phones that won't dial out and see if I can get then working. They all work on my tester and I don't understand why some phones will work on the COX system and some won't.

Thanks,
Gary   

G-Man

QuoteI think Bill probably has it nailed with his excellent synopsis regarding ATA's.


Quote from: gands-antiques on September 24, 2013, 09:31:03 PM
I just tested the 4 phones (AE40 and three 302s) and none of them will dial out.  I called COX my phone service provider and they said they upgraded their system and rotary phones won't work on it any more.

I tried my 102 and a 500 and they both work. I decided to work on the phones that won't dial out and see if I can get then working. They all work on my tester and I don't understand why some phones will work on the COX system and some won't.

Thanks,
Gary   

AE_Collector

Probably dial speed issues?

Yes that does sound like an "Upgrade"....phones are no longer able to dial calls. What "Value Add" will they think of next !

Terry

poplar1

Phil--we need you to connect your c.o. dial speed test equipment and give us the DID number to reach it!
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

stub

grands-antiques,
                  You could always built one of these keypads from Stans article  http://tinyurl.com/ygr4jz3 Stop at fig. 9
    And when finished go here to hook it up reply #'s  65 , 67, 68  http://tinyurl.com/bjmoa6n       I use it on all my phones , non-dial and dial , and it works great.  stub
Kenneth Stubblefield