Question about Bell System marking

[MagicMo]

This phone is dated from 1961 inside. What is curious to me is that the base is not marked Bell System/Western electric like all my other phones. It is just marked Western Electric, any particular reason why? Just curious.
Thanks
Mo

[WesternElectricBen]

When was it refurbished? I think on phones in the late 70's or 80's they use that marking. Or it was made after the bell system broke up, but didn't they use ATT markings after that?

I'd like to know too. I'm not entirely sure either..

Ben

[MagicMo]

Hey Ben,
It looks like it was refurbished in 82. I didn't know they used that marking then. I guess that makes sense.
Thanks!
Mo

[paul-f]

To date the logo, what date is pressed into the plastic inside the housing?

Does the handset handle have the same marking?  What date is pressed into the plastic inside the receiver cavity?

[poplar1]

I think the small label says 82 IL-10 B, which would mean that it was refurbished in the Illinois WE shop in Oct., 1982.

IIRC, late 82 and 1983 are the only years that used this American Bell logo--the Bell logo + the name "Western Electric." Post divestiture (1/1/84), American Bell became ATTIS (AT&T Information Systems), and AT&T Technologies (WE) started using housings and handsets labeled "AT&T." At some point, the new "AT&T" housings, new replacement Touch-Tone dials for reissued 2500s, and parts for Signature Princess sets assembled at the Atlanta shop were all imported from China.  

AT&T lost the right to use the word "Bell" or the Bell logo after 1/1/84. Two exceptions that I recall: (1) "Bell Labs" and (2) They were not required to remove "Bell System" from already existing sets. The spun-off Bell companies were not allowed to manufacture. That didn't stop the Baby Bells from putting "BellSouth Products," "SWB Freedom Phone,"  "PacTel," or "Genuine Bell" labels on cheap imported phones and selling them to the unsuspecting public.

[MagicMo]

Paul,
It looks like it is marked 82 inside the shell. 81 inside the receiver.  I took a pic of the handset.
Thanks
Mo

Poplar1,
I didn't know that, thanks for the info.
Thanks
Mo

[poplar1]

So they used a painted "Bell System Property not for sale" handset and a new housing.

[MagicMo]

So they used a painted "Bell System Property not for sale" handset and a new housing.

It also has a 1954 ringer. Wouldn't they update that too?
MO

[WesternElectricBen]

So they used a painted "Bell System Property not for sale" handset and a new housing.

It also has a 1954 ringer. Wouldn't they update that too?
MO

if it works dont fix it..?

[poplar1]

So they used a painted "Bell System Property not for sale" handset and a new housing.

It also has a 1954 ringer. Wouldn't they update that too?
MO

At some point they did update the ringer---only they installed one that was even older than the phone!

I'm guessing by the large neoprene feet that the phone was originally made between 1958 and 1963. (The original network is probably still in the phone to help date it.) [EDIT: You said it was 1961.]

There's no telling how many times this 500 was installed, disconnected, sent back to WE from the phone co., then rebuilt and sent back to Illinois Bell to be reinstalled and rented. Somewhere along the way, the 1958-1963 ringer may have failed when tested so they installed a "known good" one instead.

You'll find very old receiver units in some of these phones as well, but they will have been converted from U-1 to U-3 by installing a new green varistor between the terminals on the back of the receiver. Still, the old date remains.

Some 500s were also converted to 2500s in the WE shops. Spacers--one white and one purple--were added so that the Touch-Tone dial would fit, and a terminal strip was added below the dial since the extra S and T terminals needed for a 2500 were not present on a 500's network. Bill told me that only about 25% of the 500s with potted networks (425 type) would pass the test in order to proceed with the conversion. The other 75% were OK for 500s but not for 2500s.

[zaphod01]

I've found ringers as old as 1951 in later phones. In fact, I still have it. I think it came out of a '55.

Anyone needs a C2A ringer dated 10-51?

[ESalter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was they changed from the "Bell System Property - Not For Sale - Western Electric" markings to "Western Electric" when they started manufacturing the Consumer Sales models.  Darn near every shell or housing I've come across that is just marked Western Electric is on a phone with a CS model number. 

One challenge to that is gray payphone handsets.  Older ones were marked "BS - NFS - WE", where the newer ones were just marked WE.

---Eric

[poplar1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was they changed from the "Bell System Property - Not For Sale - Western Electric" markings to "Western Electric" when they started manufacturing the Consumer Sales models.  Darn near every shell or housing I've come across that is just marked Western Electric is on a phone with a CS model number. 

One challenge to that is gray payphone handsets.  Older ones were marked "BS - NFS - WE", where the newer ones were just marked WE.

---Eric

I think that's correct about the timing for the housings and G15A handsets with WE + the Bell logo (mostly 1983). But they were also used in the shop on C-stock phones like the one Mo has. From 1984-1995, in the shop they often put old transmitters and receivers in new AT&T handles.

However, there are also G15AW handsets sold outside the Bell System that have only "Western Electric" in block letters, and no Bell markings. These were around even during "BS-NFS-WE" period.
Vern was selling NOS green handsets a while back: about half were G15A (Bell System Property NFS WE) and half were G15AW (WE only).

[poplar1]

Regarding the markings like the housing on Mo's 2500: This is a bell in a circle followed by "Western Electric." Of about 200 modular handsets I went through in Sonny's warehouse, I found 17 with this marking. Of those, 14 were dated 1983 and 3 were dated late 1982.