Members still need to crop and/or process images before attaching them

[TelePlay]

About once a month, I find a post with attached images where the image thumbnails don't fully load.



Anyone else see this?

I see these on all of my devices including my iPhone and the crashed image never changes. Refresh screen does not reload the full thumbnail.

It seems full sized images (3024x4032 pixel images with considerable color depth - images taken with 12 MP cameras and phones) attached to a post can cause the forum software thumbnail generator to crash. Clicking on the partial thumbnail reveals the full image but that should not be necesssary, the thumbnail should fully load.

And not every full sized image crashes the thumbnail generator but I don't know why only a few do and the rest don't. As I said, it might have something to do with the color depth of the image (an 12 MP image is 3,024 pixels by 4,032 pixels x 8-16 bits of color depth is a large file that apparently can not be handled by the thumbnail generator).

What I do know is that cropping an image before uploading it, and if it can't be cropped then resized so the largest side of the image does not exceed 3,000 pixels, allows the image thumbnail to fully load.

In the past, full sized images crashed the topic, gave a white screen. That no longer happens but there is a link between posting large, full sized (3024x4032) images without first cropping and/or resizing them and thumbnails crashing.

Yes, it takes time to do that but it takes a lot more time for a moderator to open up the image, copy it to a photo editing program, crop and/or resize it, save it with a revised file name, attaching it to the post/reply and delete the original overly large image that crashed the generator.

The choices are to 1) let the crashed thumbnails stand as is (which looks like the image in this post), 2) have someone reprocess the image as stated above to make it display properly in the post/reply, or 3) simply delete the topic.

It would be really nice if members would simply do what we have said for more than a half dozen years now, crop and/or resize those 3024x4032 images down to a file size that is less than 2 MBytes.

[TelePlay]

Taking this analysis one step further, this is actually an older post (from July) that I have been watching to see if the crashed thumbnails "fixed" themselves. They did not. These image are from today.

Every one of these images were over 2 MB in size. The thumbnail of one image (in the large red box) that was about 3.6 MB in size loaded fully. Note that it was the only image that was not viewed. All of the other image thumbnails partially loaded and as such, each image had to be viewed to see the full image.

Also, another image that was 2.9 MB in size did not load fully.

If you look closely at the thumbnail crashes, you can see where the rastering of the thumbnail stopped, the load crashed (red circles).



 

Again, if one cares enough to post an image, I think it would be best for the person uploading the image to crop and/or resize the image so that the largest side is 3,000 or less pixels and the total file size is under 3 MBytes, and under 2 MB is preferable.


 
 

[HarrySmith]

I have noticed that a few times. I was curious why they did not load completely. Now I know!

Yes, I agree. If you are going to post pictures take the 2 extra seconds to do it properly!!

[TelePlay]

Another thumbnail crash discovered today. Of the 3 images attached to the post, 2 were full sized 12 MP images (3024 by 4032 pixel) and the 3rd was cropped down to 2620 by 2777.

The 2 full sized image thumbnails crashed, the smaller cropped image did not.

This supports what the forum has known for about 6 years that images with one side greater than 3,000 pixels may and can crash the display of the image.

Again, do not post full sized 12 MP (3024 by 4032) images. Crop and/or resize them before attaching them to a topic.

[TelePlay]

. . . do not post full sized 12 MP (3024 by 4032) images. Crop and/or resize them before attaching them to a topic.

I took the time to open up both of the above images, downloaded them to my PC, resized each for the largest side was 3,000 pixels, saved the image with a new file name (added r3000 to the end of the file name) and attached them to the original post. Both images at 3,000 pixels loaded a full thumbnail and the thumbnail was correctly orientated. The original full sized images were not deleted, left for reference.

[TelePlay]

Two more instances of crashed thumbnails.

After cropping out the background of each imaged, their largest side was less than 3,000 pixels and each cropped image loaded without crashing.

What's interesting is that one of the image, in the 3 image attachment, was the same size as the other (1960 x 4032) and its thumbnail did not crash.

Of the two examples attached, the thumbnails that crashed both had the largest side being 4,032 pixels. And, both cropped images had thumbnails that loaded fully and loaded with the correct rotation.

Again, it is important to attach images that have been cropped and/or resized so that the largest side of each image is BELOW 3,000 pixels.

[LarryInMichigan]

Any time that I want to post an image to this forum or anywhere else, I first crop out the uninteresting background and then resize what is left so that the largest dimension is no larger than 2048 pixels.  This has always well for me.

I am a member of at least one forum which automatically resizes images which are uploaded.

Larry

[TelePlay]

I am a member of at least one forum which automatically resizes images which are uploaded.

Thanks Larry.

We are looking into options in the software that deal with images. I don't know if automatic resizing is part of the code.

And you are right, the uninteresting "stuff" in the background around the desired image is not needed. is not informational and only takes up space on the server. And if the image to be posted can't be cropped (a well taken photo), then resizing the image to the largest side being less than 3,001 pixels is necessary.

[TelePlay]

The forum software had been changed so that each attachment file size must be 3 Mbytes or less.

Trying to load an image greater than 3 Mbytes will result in this error message being displayed and allowing the attached image to be cancelled out and its cropped or downsized used.



Existing images, already posted images, that are larger than 3 Mbytes will not be affected.


There is plenty of image handling "how to" information in this board

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=84.0


including this topic which is overly detailed but covers almost everything about cropping and/or resizing

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17614.0

This was done to prevent thumbnail crashing and reduce required space on the server.

[FABphones]

I am still finding quite a few crashed thumbnail images attached to posts.

After selecting 'post', could everyone please quickly review your post to check any images you have attached are showing correctly. Any that crash will show grey to the bottom of the image (see above examples).

Please remove your crashed thumbnails (delete image), edit image to reduce size (eg; by cropping out unnecessary background etc) and reattach, review...

Thanks.

[TelePlay]

I give up.

Can't win. Couldn't get members to stop attaching full sized 12 MP (3,024 x 4,032) images that crashed thumbnails and used 3 to 4 MBytes of server space, each, so a 3 MBytes file size limit was put into place.

The result?

No more full sized images but also, images are now being attached that are so small that image detail can not be seen, the images is virtually useless for helping and/or learning purposes.

When large images are resized so that the largest side is exactly 3,000 pixels, the file size will be under 3 MBytes, won't crash the software and the image will still have its fine detail to learn from or help with.

Lousy detail photos are worthless as is the time I've spent over the years trying to get members to post good detail images that don't use humongous server space and/or crash the software. Some members do it right, others either don't care or don't care to take the time.

I give up. If members don't care about the images they attach, I no longer do either.

[TelePlay]

I gave up trying to encourage members to post images that the SMF software can display well for viewing.

We are still trying to figure out why thumbnails crash.

Seems all images that have had their thumbnail's crash have two specific attributes: 1) the largest side of the image is 4,032 pixels; and 2) the image was taken holding the camera in such a way that rotational data other than 0 degrees is included in the image's EXIF data (rotate 90 degrees left or right when displaying the image).

When the SMF software creates the smaller png thumbnail and both of the above attributes exist, the thumbnail will likely crash.

Solution is to not post images that their largest side is greater than 3,000 pixels.

Getting members to do that is beyond moderator's control.

The SMF manual shows ways to limit image horizontal and vertical sizes but that option does not appear in the actual code so Admin was left with the only option of limiting the image file size to 3 MBytes. That does not prevent members from attaching 4,032 by 1,000 pixel images that have a file size under 3 MBytes. The 4,032 image size along with EXIF rotational data seems to find a bug in the SMF software that causes images to crash.

That's what we know. What members do to their images to help thumbnail images from crashing is beyond moderator control.

I know, boring stuff unless you read this complete reply and are actually reading this last line.

[HarrySmith]

Not boring, informative. I just cannot figure why people can't do a simple thing like crop a photo before posting. I think moderators should just delete any pictures that cause a crash.

[RDPipes]

Not boring, informative. I just cannot figure why people can't do a simple thing like crop a photo before posting. I think moderators should just delete any pictures that cause a crash.

I'll 2nd that Harry!

[TelePlay]

And not every full sized image crashes the thumbnail generator but I don't know why only a few do and the rest don't. As I said, it might have something to do with the color depth of the image (an 12 MP image is 3,024 pixels by 4,032 pixels x 8-16 bits of color depth is a large file that apparently can not be handled by the thumbnail generator).

Well, we have determined that those attached images which result in a partially loaded thumbnail image are images with the largest side being 4,032 and the image has rotation instructions within its EXIF data (rotate 90 or 180 degrees) for it to display correctly.

A 4,032 image side with an internal rotational command  will cause the thumbnail to hang up, partially load (many examples above).

The fix is simple, resize or crop images so the largest side is less than 4,032 pixels - or take photos with your camera held so that it does not include/require software EXIF rotation for correct viewing.