W.E. 20B / Kellogg Candlesticks

[FABphones]

Have just received this package this morning. I think we can all agree it needs a bit of TLC so I have popped this into Restorations.

I spotted this at the back of a dark group photo of phones for sale. The other phones were of no interest to me so I asked if it might be for sale on its own. The seller said yes.

When the seller went to package the phone they said it had been damaged, do I want it for the price of shipping. I had no idea what condition it was in, or what it was, so I took a chance.

Here is what has arrived:

[Doug Rose]

CJ....Looks like a Western Electric 20 B with a Hershey Kiss perch. The Kellogg transmitter is from a different stick. For shipping, you got a wonderful stick, just need a WE transmitter and a receiver....Doug

[FABphones]

I would quite like a Kellogg stick, so I will have to keep a lookout for parts for both , it may take a while, but am pleased to have found this.

In the original photo it was in one piece, not quite sure why the seller decided to take the transmitter off.

The name was hidden under a bit of grime. The only part clearly visible was 'cagous'

[FABphones]

I have two candlestick phone parts here, so I hope to remake them into two Candlestick phones. I have a few questions please folks, so that I can try and get them as original as possible.

(Remember please I am in Europe and I have never seen one of these. My terminology may also be a tad inaccurate, I have three languages to cross over and sometimes use the wrong one).

All help is appreciated.
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W.E. 20B:

This afternoon found a few moments to take a closer look and do a bit of reading up on a WE 20B.

This thread is informative:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?&topic=21556

Photos attached, my queries are:

I read that the later 20B had three screws to base, this also has three but the centre screw is missing, what does it look like, in particular I need the length.

I cannot find any photos looking up into a 20B from inside the base. What is missing from this one (I can't see anything a centre screw would attach to)?

The bolt is shiny black, am guessing this is incorrect and should be the same as the one shown on the last photo below?

This one looks a bit brassy, so am thinking this should be Nickel - which has worn away showing the underlayer of brass (all the photos I have seen of these have shown them in Nickel, and super shiny)?

I need a complete transmitter head - which one?

The baseplate was covered. To recover, I have a black or a brown suede - which would be more correct?

The original cord colour?

[FABphones]

Moving on to the second candlestick...

Kellogg Candlestick

I don't have much to go on here. I need everything apart from the transmitter head. So, just two questions to point me in the right direction please:

Which model does this belong to?

Could someone please add a photo of what I am aiming to rebuild?


Photos of what I have below:

[rdelius]

that cup is WE but modified into  a lamp. that kellogg tx is an older LB transmitter Most likely off a wooden wall telephone.

[Doug Rose]

The WE 20 B would have a 229 transmitter.

The screw is the same that does  multiple things on a 302, holds the condenser, hold the lift plate under the grip and screw into the shell that connects to the base

Green would be the proper base cover, but brown would work....Doug

[FABphones]

that cup is WE but modified into  a lamp. that kellogg tx is an older LB transmitter Most likely off a wooden wall telephone.

Thank you for the info. That solves nicely the mystery of why there is a hole/nut/thread.
So, just one Candlestick to build.

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I need close up photos of a W.E. 20B perch please folks. Found on this excellent thread by Sargeguy:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6956

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Thanks for the 229 transmitter info. Helped me understand more info on the first link above (see photos below) and helped me find this info:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5281

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If I can't find a 229 (they sound desirable), was there another # used, poss after W.E. refurb (I have to ask). See above link.

[Doug Rose]

CJ ...your beautiful 20 B already has a desirable Hershey Kiss perch. You just need a transmitter with the back cup attached. That what the screw/ bolt would slide through. If you remove the big screw from the Kellogg transmitter, the bolt will slide through the opening in the back.

A 329 or a 337 transmitter would also work....Doug

[Jack Ryan]

CJ ...your beautiful 20 B already has a desirable Hershey Kiss perch.

Just for information, it is a solid perch but not was is sometimes called a "Hershey Kiss" perch.

Here is a "Hershey Kiss" perch.

Jack

[FABphones]

Thanks to all for the info. I had already done a number of searches but a few keywords taken from the above made all the difference to my next batch of searches - the info I needed was here on crpf, I just needed a bit of help to find it.

So, today I took this apart to take a closer look. I have opened a few PTT24s and this wasn't so different. A few gentle taps with a small rubber (upholsterers) hammer wrapped in a double layer of fabric to help prevent any marking, to loosen and slide the perch off the stem (the bottom of the stem unscrews from the base).

Inside, the dry cracked electrical wiring had been run alongside the contact springs. Note the unwinding fabric tape where wires had been joined, this had just enough bare wire tight against the metal - in a nicely conducting metal stem - to give a lethal zap.

Appears all original, with an insulating bumper between the hook and contact springs. No extra length/single hole so nowhere for a centre screw from baseplate to go (I need to find more info on this).

I hope to bring this back to as near original as possible, but to widen my options I have a first and second choice of transmitter and receiver to search for (factory, refurb). Funds, luck and time will reveal what can be found.

Meanwhile, I couldn't resist taking some polish to the metal to see how well it would come up. Brass, the initial buff shows promise. The perch shows signs of having had a knurled nut, and the wording on the base is clear:

Pat in USA
Aug 16 04  Sept 13 04  Jan 26 15
Western Electric Company

[FABphones]

Photos of inside the transmitter (does anyone know what the codes mean), and a closeup of the nut/bolt.

This, for the moment, is all destined for the spares box.

[rdelius]

That nut and bolt were added to the cup to use it as a lamp.That cup is WE .Do not know the code on the Kellogg transmitter but it was made for LB service and not part of your WE stick.I would find another cup and transmitter.That Kellogg transmittter might be worth more in trade.

[Jack Ryan]

It looks like the phone is made from parts.

Later 20Bs did gave three base screws with the centre screw holding the rack/frame. Your base has three holes but it and the base cover are from a much later phone. The 1915 patent date is for the drawn perch so your base, assuming it is brass, is from a late model 20AL or similar telephone.

Earlier 20Bs had two base screws and the rack was held in place by a screw entering the side of the shaft on the opposite side from the switch hook. Your rack should be fastened that way. From the pictures, I can't tell if there is a hole or screw on the shaft to hold it.

I have included some pictures of an early 20B and one picture of a later 20B. The later 20B uses three base screws, the centre screw screws into an extension of the rack to hold it in place.

Also note the covering material - the early cords were also green but these details are probably covered better elsewhere on this site (sorry, I don't have a link).

Regards
Jack

[FABphones]

Thanks for the info and photos. I had also matched the base to a drawn perch (link to Sargeguy's thread, above), I came to the conclusion it likely was refurbed, as so many were.
One can never know for sure where or when these changes took place, but I'm trying hard to do my best by it now.

...I would find another cup and transmitter.That Kellogg transmittter might be worth more in trade.

It is in the spares box. I am happy to move the transmitter on to another home if anyone can make use of it.