Candlestick 152AB with 685A subset wiring?

[jeff1876]

I recently purchased a brass candlestick marked 152AB at an estate sale.  I also purchased a 685A subset dated 3-78 containing a 4228S network.  I believe the two belong to each other but I am not sure.  The candlestick has a 6 conductor cord with Red, Green, Black, Yellow, White, and Blue wires.  I have searched the forum and the web but have not been able to find how to wire the two together.  Can anyone point me to wiring diagram?

Thanks,

Jeff

[poplar1]

Your 152AB may have been modified by the Phone Company at the Western Electric service center, in order to update it to the then current standards. I say that because originally it would have used a 4-conductor cord going to an older subset such as a 684BA or 634BA.

It would help if you could provide photos showing where the wires are connected inside the phone.

There are several possible ways to make it work. The diagrams already posted on the forum are most likely for the original factory wiring of the phone, even if used with a newer subset. But it may be easier to keep the wiring you presently have and not have to return the phone to its original wiring.

[unbeldi]

A six-conductor cord is indeed needed to make available all features of the 425-type network with an antique telephone.  The 4228 is a successor of the 425.

Here is a diagram that explains the connections, but it was drawn with a 202 or 211 type instrument in mind. But a 152AB shouldn't be that different. As Poplar1 said, pictures would be helpful, and we would need to see the switch pile-up on the hookswitch too.

In this diagram, the mounting cord is designated in colors with dashed ovals. Counting the lines in all the ovals, the total is six.
HS means hookswitch, DP means dial pulse switch, and DS means off-normal dial switch.  The colors don't exactly match your report, as is not surprising, but red, green, and black are probably the same.

[unbeldi]

Here is also a wiring diagram drawn in the style of the 1960/70s BSPs, but again for a 202 type desk set.
It just needs to be adapted for the specific configuration in your 152AB.

[poplar1]

Here are two other methods of wiring a 202 or 211 to a 685A subset, using only 5 conductors:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2773-502-320-400-i2-service-211-hand-telephone-sets-tl

http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2780-502-320-414-i1-service-202b-c-d-hand-telephone-sets-tl

(TCI Library)

[unbeldi]

Here are two other methods of wiring a 202 or 211 to a 685A subset, using only 5 conductors:

IIRC, the method leaves part of the circuit permanently connected to the line though.  The sixth wire eliminates that.  Inspection of the actual set might provide some insight of whether the wiring was actual performed officially.

[poplar1]

IIRC, the method leaves part of the circuit permanently connected to the line though.  The sixth wire eliminates that.  Inspection of the actual set might provide some insight of whether the wiring was actual performed officially.

502-320-400-i2 includes the dial filter (F-RR). The second BSP does not.
None of the 4 methods switches both sides of the line, but this is not necessary.

[unbeldi]

502-320-400-i2 includes the dial filter (F-RR). The second BSP does not.
None of the 4 methods switches both sides of the line, but this is not necessary.

Right, but that method switches NONE.  It places the single line switch inside the dial pulse circuit, which save one conductor, but it leaves the varistor/capacitor network always connected across the line.
It is curious why they would have tried to conserve one conductor, as the 211 was wired not with a mounting cord, but with inside wiring, where an extra conductor is not much of an issue. Didn't IW always come in pairs for more than 3 wires ?
In fact, I remember one of the BSP specifies six-conductor IW, but uses only five.

[jeff1876]

Please see the attached pictures.  Note: I do not see the blue wire inside the base and assume it was cut off short.
Sorry it took so long to reply but I had troubles getting the photos to post.

[unbeldi]

Thanks.
So it is really not a (1)52-type anymore, it has also been retrofitted with a regular switchhook for a handheld receiver.  Originally, a 152AB used a headset and specially adapted hookswitch that was basically just a hanger for the headset.

Since the desk stand is all brassed out, I suspect this was a construction of a collector or other type of after-market enthusiast.

The dial looks like it is one of the decorator style dials (6U, golden finger wheel) from the 1970s.

[unbeldi]

Here is a picture from the forum of an authentic looking 152AB:



Starting in the 1930s these were usually upgraded with a capsule-type transmitter and the "bulldog" transmitter assembly as you have on your instrument.
Does your receiver have a capsule (HA1) in it that comes out when you unscrew the cap (widest part of assembly) ?

PS: here is one that has the 635A type transmitter already:

[jeff1876]

I am not sure what type of receiver this is but I don't think it is an HA1 (see picture).  There is some corrosion on the screws so it must have been someplace damp.

[poplar1]

The dial looks like it is one of the decorator style dials (6U, golden finger wheel) from the 1970s.

It looks like a 6A to me:
(1) It has 5 screw terminals, not 6.
(2) BB and W have only one wire each, suggesting that these are normally closed contacts (6A), not normally open (6T  6U).

The 2 wires wrapped around the original dial cord have crimped spade tips while the 3 original wires have soldered spade tips.  The 2 added wires are connected to B on the terminal block and Y on the dial.

The closest match of the 4 above wiring methods is 502-320-114. If we substitute white for the YY lead, then the 152AB would connect to the subset as follows:

Green to GN on the 4228 network

Red to R on the 4228 network

Black to B on the 4228 network

White to 2 on the terminal strip

Yellow to L2 on the terminal strip

Connect the line to L1 (green)  and L2 (red) on the terminal strip (not on the network).

Leave the jumper wires connected:
Blue from L1 on terminal strip to RR on the network
Brown from 2 on the terminal strip to C on the network

[poplar1]

I am not sure what type of receiver this is but I don't think it is an HA1 (see picture).  There is some corrosion on the screws so it must have been someplace damp.

The receiver unit  is probably an LB1 receiver, the type used in Trimlines and some Design Line phones. The receiver shell is proably a repro.

[andre_janew]

I  had no idea that Western Electric was making subsets in 1978!  I'm surprised someone found one that new!