Who owns Western Electric patents and rights (and injection moulds)?

[Rokumoncat]

Hi All,

I have a strange question. Who now owns the patent rights for the Western Electric telephone equipment? I am thinking of the 500 specifically. Would it be possible (as a thought experiment) to start a company to manufacture new 500 sets to the WECo (not Cortelco) specs? I suspect that there are more than a few people who after decades of "cheap phones" that last about a year and cost over a hundred bucks would be willing to purchase a real phone that was designed when quality actually meant something.

Just a thought...

Best,

Joe

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I know that Cortelco (was ITT and, before that, Kellogg) shared 500 patents with WE, so it's possible that they still have the patent rights for the 500 and 554.

[Fabius]

Didn't ITT make the 500s under license from Western Electric rather then "shared patents"?

[unbeldi]

Hi All,

I have a strange question. Who now owns the patent rights for the Western Electric telephone equipment? I am thinking of the 500 specifically. Would it be possible (as a thought experiment) to start a company to manufacture new 500 sets to the WECo (not Cortelco) specs? I suspect that there are more than a few people who after decades of "cheap phones" that last about a year and cost over a hundred bucks would be willing to purchase a real phone that was designed when quality actually meant something.

Just a thought...

Best,

Joe

There are no patent right to this technology anymore; any patents expired decades ago. Western Electric was dissolved essentially after the break-up of the Bell System, but continued under other names within AT&T until the 1990s. Even any patents of that era are now expired.

[Rokumoncat]

Hi Again,

So does that mean that there might be some injection moulds for the 500 and handset still floating around somewhere? And if someone were to obtain a set, that they could legally make new shells (as long as the Western Electric logo was not used) without fearing the lawyers wrath?

Next, this little question...

Does anybody know where to find a set of these moulds? Very looooooong shot I know...

Best,

Joe

[paul-f]

Didn't ITT make the 500s under license from Western Electric rather then "shared patents"?

As a result of antitrust legislation, Western Electric was pressured to grant licenses to other manufacturers.

In 1951, AT&T and ITT entered into a patent cross-licensing agreement.

[G-Man]

AT&T sold the remains of Western Electric/Bell Labs to Lucent Technologies and Avaya. Lucent was then taken over by French company, Alcatel. Within the last couple of weeks it was announced that Finnish company Nokia is now taking them over pending approval from the French government. Avaya is independent and had previously purchased the remains of Nortel's PBX and key equipment segment.
As Umbeldi has already stated, the patents had expired long ago and ITT/CORTELCO, Stromberg Carlson, and others who manufactured the 500/2500 sets, did so under license and never owned the patents or any related intellectual properties.Because they have expired, others have been manufacturing shells and handsets for years. In fact, Old Phone Works bought FiveStarPhones who still sells newly manufactured replacement shells, handsets, etc. At one time, FiveStar had the molds but they may have been shipped overseas by now.As far as selling 500 and 2500 sets again, do you really think there is much of a market for landline telephones and that market share there is going to grow? I suspect there  is a valid reason that Verizon and AT&T are doing their best to dump their wireline companies. Even so, if someone wants a 500/2500 set, they can buy one for about $ 5.00 at most garage sales or at Goodwill.

[Rokumoncat]

I understand that there would not be a viable mass market for brand new 500 phones. This is a thought exercise... ;-) However, I do feel that there might be a surge of interest in landline phones. I say this for several reasons. First, if there is the mother of all solar flares that manages a bullseye on old Terra, then digital consumer everything will be useless for anything except museum displays and paper weights. I suspect that a lot of landline telephone COs would survive as they are built in hardened buildings meant to withstand a nuclear attack. Second, wireless phones are unreliable and sound terrible. I can tell you that where I live, when Airforce One is anywhere near, wireless service is spotty at best. Third, when there is a large group of people around, like at a ball game or parade, cell towers get swamped and there is no getting out. If you are unfortunate enough to live close to a stadium or regular parade route, then you have to put up with outages.

I am no luddite. I have an ATT wireless phone as does my wife. We also have a landline. (Which I have connected to a really cool 1A2 system.) I think that there would be a niche market for very solid, dependable and basic telephones, especially with just a little bit of marketing. Many people my age have a hard time simply dialing wireless phones due to the tiny buttons or touch screens.

I do happen to have access to an injection molding facility that is owned by close family friends. Now, just what would I do with a set of moulds for a 500.... hmmm, violet maybe; orange and white; oh, and then, maybe an industrial machinist and draftsman could get together and measure, draw, design punch dies, etc for mushroom lights...

Time to wake up...

Best,

J

[G-Man]

As I have already stated, new housings, handsets and other parts are being produced as we speak; some in a wide range of colors such as translucent blue, lime, chrome, etc. Also, reproduction caps for mushroom lamps are already available.

As far as the availability of the dies, etc., you may want to check on the TCI Listserve. Several years ago one of their members was trying to broker a company that had the dies to produce plastics for these sets.

Here is a current ad for chrome sets...FiveStar's Chrome Touch Tone Phone Section. Here we offer Chrome Phones that are Ideal for Various Applications Such as Hotel/Casinos, Restaurants/Clubs, Point-of-Sale/Kiosk, and Special Applications.Chrome Phones matches other finishes/decor such as Platinum, White Gold, Silver, Polished Aluminum, Stainless, Zinc, and Steel.