News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

QSD3A Restoration.... What have I gotten myself into?

Started by mentalstampede, March 02, 2014, 11:41:31 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

mentalstampede

My QSD3A from ebay arrived yesterday.  Overall, I'm satisfied that it has potential, but this is certainly going to be the most in depth restoration I've done thusfar.  You can't tell it from the picture, but the lower section of the phone is quite rusty; it took me over an hour just to get the coin return out of it.  Unfortunately, I had to destroy the pin that the coin return pivots on in order to get it out.  Hopefully I can find one somewhere, but if not I guess I could probably fabricate one on the lathe at work.

The phone did not come with keys, so keys are on my shopping list as well.  I've got a couple of leads in that direction thanks to DavePEI's wonderful website.

Moving onward, the phone has had a hack-job conversion for residential use at some point.  The coin mech is present, and appears to be in okay shape, but the post-pay relay is missing. The terminal strip at the top of the backboard is also missing. A 101B coil is loosely screwed to the front of the coin chute, with a capacitor laying loose next to it.  The wiring in general is a mess.

The dial spins freely and returns nicely, and the number-daisy is in great shape.

The handset, is obviously not original, as it is an Automatic Electric with GTE marked internals.  I'll probably use it anyway as long as it checkes out okay, but I am going to replace the cord with a armored one, which would seem to me be more appropriate for the late-sixities vintage of this phone.

Considering the missing internals, I'm thinking I'll probably hide a small network, like one out of a 500 set inside the upper housing. I'm thinking I might be able to fit a ringer out of a 500 series into the left side of the vault as well without it blocking the area where the coins fall.  If not, a 300 series or one of the silly single-bell mini ringers should fit.

I'll be posting more pictures as the project progresses.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

Mr. Bones

Nice payphone, Kenn, and I wish you much luck with its restoration!

From looking at the dial card, thought you might find this of interest:

http://hamcall.net/call/WB1EJZ
http://hamcall.net/call/N1BJY

Best regards!
Sláinte!
   Mr. Bones
      Rubricollis Ferus

DavePEI

#2
This may be of help to you. I scanned this back when I was working on my QSD3A many years ago.

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

mentalstampede

Quote from: DavePEI on March 02, 2014, 12:30:16 PM
This may be of help to you. I scanned this back when I was working on my QSD3A many years ago.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I seem to recall you refinished yours.  Did you drill out the rivets holding the coin slots on the upper housing or did you just mask the assembly off when you painted it?  It looks like it'll be a real pain to drive rivet back into it in such confined space.

As you can see from this picture of the vault, I will certainly be refinishing mine.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

DavePEI

Quote from: mentalstampede on March 02, 2014, 12:53:03 PM
Quote from: DavePEI on March 02, 2014, 12:30:16 PM
This may be of help to you. I scanned this back when I was working on my QSD3A many years ago.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I seem to recall you refinished yours.  Did you drill out the rivets holding the coin slots on the upper housing or did you just mask the assembly off when you painted it?  It looks like it'll be a real pain to drive rivet back into it in such confined space.

As you can see from this picture of the vault, I will certainly be refinishing mine.

No, as you suspected the coun slots were about the only thing I didn't remove before painting. Just very careful masking on it. Everything alse came off...

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

WesternElectricBen

Looks like a nice phone, good luck...

Unless you are going to use that as a residential area, (Enterprise) I would keep the curly cord on. I'd love one with a curly cord, rather than the bothersome armored one.

Ben

mentalstampede

I've got another quick question for those of you who have QSD3As in an as removed condition:  The electromagnet in the coin mech has to do with holding a single nickel in the mechanism until a second one is deposited for a 10 cent rate local call, correct?  What condition causes the electromagnet to release the held coin?

Also, I am missing the contact on the back plate that the BKX terminal touches when the upper housing is closed. Since I ama ssembling the phone without a post-pay relay and coin switch, is this a piece I can do without?
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

poplar1

Quote from: mentalstampede on March 05, 2014, 12:32:44 PM
I've got another quick question for those of you who have QSD3As in an as removed condition:  The electromagnet in the coin mech has to do with holding a single nickel in the mechanism until a second one is deposited for a 10 cent rate local call, correct?  What condition causes the electromagnet to release the held coin?

Also, I am missing the contact on the back plate that the BKX terminal touches when the upper housing is closed. Since I ama ssembling the phone without a post-pay relay and coin switch, is this a piece I can do without?

On a Coin First line, there was no dial tone until the dime or two nickels fell into the hopper. The electromagnet was also not yet energized before coins were deposited.

The first nickel is held mechanically and the second nickel releases both coins mechanically. I'm sure someone else can explain this better than I can.

Once you have dial tone, the electromagnet is energized. This allows a single nickel to pass freely. This was necessary for example if the operator told you to deposit 30 cents for a toll call, and you wanted to deposit a quarter (25 c) and one nickel (5 c). It was also needed  where you had to deposit an additional 5 cents for overtime.

When dialing, whether on a Coin First line (after depositing 10c) or on your present-day residential line (without coins), the electromagnet and coin signal transmitters will be connected (if you choose to connect them) for the duration of the call. The electromagnet will disengage during each spin of the dial because of the short through the R contact on the dial. If you don't have the BBX terminal, you can still connect the electromagnet and coin signal transmitters, but the electromagnet won't lose power while dialing.

There was no electromagnet needed when local calls were only 5 cents. And Automatic Electric used a different method to enforce the 10 cent deposit.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

mentalstampede

I was expecting it was something to that effect.  Since this is a post-pay phone which would always have dial tone, I think it would work in this manner: phone goes off hook and electromagnet energizes.  Caller dials number. On answer, reverse battery supervision mutes handset and de-energizes electromagnet. Caller deposits 10 cents, and coin switch activates relay, which unmutes handset and re-energizes electromagnet.  Do I have that somewhat correct?
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

poplar1

I forgot that you have a post-pay set. I don't know about the electromagnet operation in that scenario. Where's Dave?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

mentalstampede

On another note, I've managed to come up with a way to shoehorn the network and ringer out of a 500 set into the vault area without making any major modifications to the original pieces that I have. It's a tight fit, and everything is going to have to be assembled in a very specific order, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna work.  I will post pictures when I finish fabricating my mounts.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

mentalstampede

If anyone is curious, here are pictures of my 500 series guts installed in the vault of my QSD3A.  Normally, I would be opposed to making non-reversible mods to a phone, but since this one came to me partially gutted with a hack-job conversion, I don't feel bad about setting this up for use without a subset.

I wouldn't recommend anyone try this, because it was a serious pain in the neck to do and it takes some creativity to assemble, but it can be done.  The fit is very tight; the distance between the ringer gongs and the network housing is less than 1/16". A B1A would probably be a lot easier to fit in the space available.

That said, the only non-reversible modifications made are four small holes drilled in the plate that the coinbox would hang from.  The mods are invisible as long as the vault door is closed.  Obviously, I will be fixing the vane in the coin chute to shunt all coins into the coin return bucket.

The first picture is looking through the vault door.  The second one shows the inside of the vault with the back removed.

The next two pictures are the brackets I fabricated from sheet aluminum.  The network is riveted to a plate which mounts through the hole that was already present on the bottom of the phone.  I believe this hole is supposed to secure a spring or something, but that was already removed when I got this phone.

The final photo shows what it looks like from the top.  Disregard the routing of the line cord; it's only routed this way for test purposes. I'm very pleased that there are no modifications visible from this view.

Now I need to finish the stripping and painting of rusty pieces, and locating a proper handset and I should be ready to assemble this beast!  :D
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

HarrySmith

Very nice! I enjoy coming up with "creative" fixes also, this is right up my alley! Great job ;D
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

mentalstampede

Paging DavePEI:  I have a couple of quick questions.

Do you have a scan of an appropriate instruction card for a QSD3A?

Also, on the circuit diagram you posted, it shows a capacitor between the A and X terminals in the upper housing.  I appear to be missing this component; at least I sure don't see one.  Do you have any idea what the value of this capacitor might be, or can I do without it?

I am aware the the brown wires have been cut; I'm going to resolder them and route them appropriately; one to the A terminal, and the other to the BK terminal.

My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

xhausted110

Quote from: mentalstampede on March 13, 2014, 08:03:27 PM
Paging DavePEI:  I have a couple of quick questions.

Do you have a scan of an appropriate instruction card for a QSD3A?

Also, on the circuit diagram you posted, it shows a capacitor between the A and X terminals in the upper housing.  I appear to be missing this component; at least I sure don't see one.  Do you have any idea what the value of this capacitor might be, or can I do without it?

I am aware the the brown wires have been cut; I'm going to resolder them and route them appropriately; one to the A terminal, and the other to the BK terminal.



Is that a UNICOMP model M in the background? they are great keyboards.
- Evan