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I work in facility maintenance  in Colorado Springs school district 11, I inspect, test and maintain 65+fire alarm systems.
We have around 26,000 students and 6,000 staff in over 4 million  square feet of facilities.
We are in El Paso county, CO. There are around 110,000 students in El Paso county schools.

In my community we  shut down all the  schools in El Paso county for at least 2 weeks.
This has added 1 early week to Spring Break to most districts. They intent is to "flatten the curve" and keep the local health care system from being overwhelmed.

In my district we are cleaning and sealing the sites. I am still getting paid and I am on call during normal work hours to respond to fire alarm issues during the shut down.

If I get a call out, I will be met, logged and screened before entry, I shall spend as little time as possible, and they will clean the area I was in after I leave.

This applies to all the facilities maintenance staff.

The local situation is being monitored and the closure may get extended if needed.
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School district 11 is  providing 1 bag lunch per child 0-18 each school day. This is done at certain sites and will be done outside, like our Summer Lunch program.
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Currently, I am working on small home projects, I also plan on  cleaning up the garage and phone room.
If I get bored, It is a good time to search the forum and add cross-links and or photos to some topics.

Wash your hands, keep your distance keep  safe and stay socially responsible.
Jim

I should mention that they have postponed the Saint Patrick's day parade until September (1/2 way till next St. Pat's.
Most of the local churches are closed or are doing on-line services.
The grocery stores have reduced their hours for cleaning and stocking.

My wife went to Hobby Lobby yesterday to get craft stuff.
She said the scrap book aisle was full of women , and the model aisle was full of guys.
If you need to stay home, it is a good time to do the things you have been putting off.

Schools are closed until end of April. Boston Universities are sending students home and not to return from spring break. On Line classes.

St Patrick's Parade Day was cancelled and the Boston Marathon postponed to the Fall.

I am WFH, started Friday for at least six weeks.

Stressing hygiene as Jim said, wash your hands all the time. I have my grandsons doing Happy Birthday...twice. They cough and sneeze into their sleeve where their arm bends. Actually using a tissue!

Be kind. Don't hoard. Stay healthy....Doug

Yea schools are closed after a staff person had found out the member of the family had it. I haven't been out in public for about four days, not really needing to go out.
But I keep distance from others who act like they have a cough, was my hands after being out etc.
Even take a shower and change clothes after being out.
I have respiratory issues so when I get a cold I get it good.
Vitamins are good to keep up on anyways especially during the cold and flu season anyway. My wife was a nurses aid and she's taking precautions as well.
But I'm looking forward to getting out in the sun and fresh air.

There are shortages of toilet paper and cleaning supplies.  In the apartment building where I live, we had the last pot luck supper we are going to have for a while just yesterday.  We normally have one every month, but the ones from April on are canceled until further notice.  Other than that, nothing has changed thus so far.

Quote from: andre_janew on March 15, 2020, 04:02:08 PM
.... In the apartment building where I live, we had the last pot luck supper we are going to have for a while just yesterday.  We normally have one every month....

What is a pot luck supper?

Quote from: FABphones on March 15, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
What is a pot luck supper?

The potluck supper is where everybody brings one dish to share, and you end up with a feast.

No arrangements, even the churches are closed.

dsk

Quote from: Duffy on March 15, 2020, 04:20:51 PM
The potluck supper is where everybody brings one dish to share, and you end up with a feast.

Yum. I like that idea.  :D

In France, gatherings are cancelled, none essential stores are to remain closed. Restaurants, Bars, closed. Large public events cancelled.

From what I have seen so far, the supermarkets are stocked well; the 'cheaper' brand store ran out of yoghurt, cream, pizza last week. This week very little pasta, rice and tomato juice. Another large supermarket just 1/2 km further down the same road had everything in stock both weeks. The pasta shelves were full to overflowing.

The only item not available anywhere I have looked is anti-bacterial hand gel.

Now our public library is closed!

New rules every day. Due to capacity problems in the health care you are not allowed to travel to your summer house or cabin, but stay in your home area. Everything collecting people are closed as bars restaurants etc. No massage, no physiotherapy, no haircut allowed. No visitors into institutions, strict control to enter hospitals, even emergency receptions. Only the patient no relatives.... Schools and universities are closed, internet education, work from home if you can.  The TV/Radio reporters do the interviews from a sudden distance, and with plastic on the microphone.  Many people in quarantine some in full isolation...  No foreign citizens may enter the border, except driver on trucks loaded with goods we need (as old telephones ??  ;D )

I believe its wise  to be careful, take care!
Greetings from Norway
dsk

I heard today that SF bay area is closing down.... right... the heart of the silicon valley! are you crazy! oh well.... there goes your I-Phone prices!

Well this virus is spreading like wild fire. People are not accustomed to staying home, so if they don't have it, don't take precautions etc. Then they too could become the next victim of this thing. Where I am in New Hampshire it's spreading to my area simply because people aren't doing what's asked of them.. Stay home, monitor your self etc.
School is closed in the entire state until at least mid April.
But from how things are looking it may be longer than that.so wash your hands using antibacterial soaps for at least 20 seconds. Limit your exposure. Restaurants are closed, bars are closed. Not that it matters to me because I tend to stay home anyway. But wow. Stay well everyone.

In Canada they are looking at temporarily recalling Parliament to bring in emergency economic measures and the Canadian government is also examining the Emergencies Act.

Province of Ontario has already declared state of emergency amid COVID-19 outbreak.

School is out, No inside dining at any restaurant (take away only), grocery stores are out of the staples and paper tissues, towels and roll paper.  The drug stores are out of over the counter cold preparations and are having great difficulty filling new cold or viral related prescriptions.  BUT GAS IS CHEAP!!!  $1.67 /gal today so now we can drive to the nowhere that any has anything to eat see take or buy.   ;D

Not really much going on where I live specifically (but then I don't get out much as it is, I'm well-suited to this self-isolation thing!!), but supermarkets are being stripped bare due to idiots hoarding things, they've even taken to buying up bottled water, as though they think the virus will sneakily turn off mains water supplies or something, it's definitely gone a bit loopy people-wise...  ::)

Just a case of hunker down, stay safe, don't do anything unnecessary, don't travel unless needed, etc., of course those of us who need to do shopping are a bit up a certain creek without a paddle when we don't have the money to get things this week, come next week, who knows how far things'll be shut down...  ???

It amazes me after communities have worked for years and years to bring us safe water to drink, people can't trust tap water unless it comes to them in small bottles.  The county I live in spent millions to put in a ultraviolet water purification plant that has won purity awards from across the country, yet the people here act like they will die of thirst if the bottled stuff runs out.

Round here the water's pretty nice, no nasty taste, not hard, no funny colour, but the idiots still are panic-buying bottled stuff, I keep saying that they must be prepping for nuclear war or something, what with the toilet roll, dry goods, bottled water, cleaning supplies, etc., they seem to be suffering from the epidemic of "stupidity", which is a far more dangerous disease...  :o

Stopped in Sam's Club this morning after I finished with an appointment. Got there at 9 am and there was a line from the front door half way down the side of the building. I did something else and went back 15 minutes later - no line. There was a cop car parked at the front door. I picked up the 2 things I needed and as I walked toward the self check I noticed the police officer standing to the side taking a picture of the people with carts full of toilet paper and paper towels checking out. Talked to him saying I didn't understand and he didn't either. He said they had 5 pallets of toilet paper available when the store opened at 9 am and it was all gone in just under 7 minutes. That's why he was there. The store asked for protection in case something broke out in the mad grab for paper.

I told him I'd buy a case of TP if I could get my hands on that apparently sold out cook book, "101 Ways to Prepare A Savory Toilet Paper Dinner." He laughed.

Other than that type of stupidity on display in most grocery stores (some stuff sold out, others not) these days, anything having to do with a gathering of 10 or more people has been canceled. On top of that, banks have closed their lobbies leaving only their drive through available (and it's hard to get to a safe deposit box by way of the drive through). Churches, theaters, gyms, plays, concerts, all sporting events, restaurants, bars, schools, parks (indoor and outdoor), museums and zoos all closed for at least 45 days (probably missed a few). The bright side is gas here is about $1.75 a gallon.

I still don't understand the panic buying. If everyone just bought as if everything was normal, buy only what is needed, the supply lines would keep the store shelves full. Once this is over, the shelves will once again be filled but all those with a basement full of hoarded booty will not be buying for a long time. Will take a long time to get the supply lines back into the normal demand, stable consumption business cycle.

And as said above, panic buying bottled water? Duh . . . .

Yea, I don't get it either. I went to pick up a few things this afternoon, no paper products period. None.
Shelves were bare as far as I could see.
It's like this is a death sentence and they will just stay home until everything returns to normal.
But it's just putting a strain on a lot of areas, not just paper products. If everyone is that terified Wear a dust mask, wash your hands when you get to your car. Etc.
As long as your not hanging at the corner bar with people coughing all over you, you should be fine.
The important thing, don't panic. Because that's when it started g
Getting bad.

I haven't gone out but it sounds like a lot of people are not going to work or school because government shut down. but are gathering other Places.

Went to Costco and CVS pharmacy today.  They didn't look too bad.  Just got $1.65/gal gas there.  Didn't have time to go inside.  Our county government has set up locations where parents can pick up bagged school breakfasts and lunches as the kids are out of school and the grocery stores are out of food.  Now is the time when my liking sugar free foods comes to an advantage.  The locusts avoid them like they were radioactive.   ;D

Schools closing from Friday. No council offices, community centres, libraries, gyms, etc - all closed. Universities are on 'distance teaching' but mostly still open.

Haven't seen powdered milk for two weeks. Toilet rolls available at £4/pack from convenience shops. Asda said their last pallet off the lorry sold out in 10 minutes. Most supermarkets are now rationing almost everything to about 4 per customer - if they have it.

The charity shops will be the next to close I think - they rely on elderly volunteers, and that will have a knock-on effect on charities' income.

It's been a long time since so many countries shared common daily events to such a degree.  Wish it could have been a nicer equalizer.

Restaurants are now doing take out and deliveries only.  The apartment building where I live is now locked all the time.  Tenants, like me, can get in by using a key fob. Anyone else who wants in must call security to get in.  Only security is allowed to let others in.  We now have our first case of  Corona virus in Lawrence, Kansas.  It was a student at  K U returning from spring break.

Tesco (UK supermarket chain) has implemented some new rules, 3 items max on everything, scrapping of multi-buy deals (so more money for them!) and no deli counter, fresh fish, meat & veg, so, basically, no reason to be going to tesco then if they haven't got what you need and are over-charging in an already difficult time...  ::)

Most supermarkets also closing earlier, Asda (owned by WalMart) is scrapping 24hr times to allow for easier restocking, as is Tesco, haven't looked at other places (Sainsburys, Morrisons, Aldi, Lidl, etc.) but presumably also doing the same...

Convenience store / gas stations are no longer allowing refills. They are also using one employee to fill coffee cups (no more help yourself style for drinks and pastries and hot convenience foods). So, whatever one wants, an employee will make it or bag it but with so few people out and in these stores, never a line to get anything.

Grocery stores have banned the cloth reusable grocery bags since they are a carrier of all kinds of bugs which are deposited on whatever surface the bag touches as well as the food stuffs put into the bag - one time use plastic and paper bags is all that can be used to bag food products. Seems the reusable cloth bag was a bad idea from the moment it was forced upon the public and now we are told why. And, if washed after each use, the water and soaps used to wash it and the power needed to dry it have a bigger impact on the environment than a single use paper or plastic bag.

All dentist offices have closed for 3 weeks. One dentist office is left open to serve a 100 mile radius for anyone needing emergency dental work - all other dental work canceled for the 3 weeks.

My favorite antique mall has closed until further notice. I guess the picking up and putting down of items by whomever is thought to be a way to transmit bugs since the store can't sanitize every item after it has been touched.

Community health centers are screening anyone wanting to enter at the door for fever and if hot, segregated from the few people in the center for evaluation. If one is not hot and enters such a health center, a person with mask, spray bottle and wipe (wearing gloves) cleans off any and all surfaces the person being followed touches immediately after the touch. That's scary having some right behind you wiping down everything you touch.

Parking lots, streets and roads are ghost town level empty. But, easy to find a parking spot anywhere for the places still open. That makes my work a lot easier not having to deal with traffic and parking while making my daily 200 miles pickup/delivery stops.

Also, no crowds anywhere so easy to stay at least 6 feet away from everyone else.

Gas is still under $1.75 a gallon and no one is hoarding candy. But, I'm still looking for that low calorie cookbook, "101 Ways to Prepare a Savory Toilet Paper Dinner."

a quayside bar in Hamburg is bound to close but can't. They were open 24/7 for 70 years and have no key for the door.

Many of the charity shops have closed or are closing tomorrow. Clothing shops are closing as they're "non-essential" and people can buy online (and people don't buy new clothes to wear at home self-isolating).

Co-op had sold out of milk by 10 am. Tesco had sold out of everything (if they had a delivery) by 4pm despite rationing.

The school exams at age 16 and 18 are cancelled. Jury trials are not taking place in courts. By next week trains are going to be cut back to an hourly service on most routes and buses will be cut too.

People on TripAdvisor are still asking "should I cancel my holiday?" -- yes, that's what no non-essential travel means!

I went in the Costco business center here today.  as far as refrigerated/frozen foods go, you'd never imagine anything was wrong.  Packaged foods snacks candy nuts and cigareets in abundance.  It was like walking back a week. Tissues, paper towels and TP still absent as all the personal sanitization products. I set up my youngest niece with an associate membership as she has had trouble getting groceries at the regular stores.  She cares for my older sister and that should come in handy for them.Restaurants here have set up for take away only.  I got an Email from Harbor Freight that "the government" has given them a dispensation to remain open during this calamity.  There are rumblings that there are 2 people in the public transit authority I work for has gotten the virus.  Oh boy.   

Looks like Go North East (Bus operator that serves where I live) is changing all services to Sunday timetables (with special timetables for routes where there's no service on a sunday) from Monday 23rd, so limiting the amount of buses available, meaning more people on fewer buses, not the most ideal situation really, but non-essential travel should be restricted anyway, meaning no popping to the shops for a bit of a wander, only going somewhere needed for essentials...

Quote from: twocvbloke on March 20, 2020, 03:12:35 PM
so limiting the amount of buses available, meaning more people on fewer buses, not the most ideal situation really,

but limiting the number of drivers required, which is the main factor. And fuel cost, of course.

I have to 'pop to the shops' because I can't rely that when I go for a weekly shop they will have anything to buy. So I am now going to the shops several times a week in the hope of finding things.

I've also been going shopping for bits & pieces here and there, but gave it a miss today (mostly cos I couldn't stay awake, one of the issues I have to live with!!), but come monday when I have enough money to do proper shopping, I think I'll walk to Asda rather than get the bus, just to be on the safe side, plus it's healthier to walk anyway...  :)

My wife went to the supermarket early this morning and was able to score a 4 roll pack of toilet paper!! 
The shelves have been bare all month.
I told her to be sure to flip it over and use both sides!

Don't forget the Arnold J. Rimmer method of conservative toilet roll use; Three pieces, One up, One down and One to polish...  ;D

(A line from Red Dwarf, S07E05, "Blue")

With a lot of unknown, true and false accusations, fear and panic, things are posted which sometimes are not correct. One of those, which I've now seen posted 3 times at unrelated platforms proposes a simple test to determine if one has the virus. The third was this morning on the TCI ListServ.

https://groups.io/g/singingwires/message/150332

This was debunked by Snopes on March 11th

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/

along with an explanation of why this was not correct. As I see it, and I'm not a doctor, fibrosis of the lungs is something that occurs AFTER pneumonia is cured, is a result of the damage done to tissue by pneumonia (any type of pneumonia) or the creation of scar tissue resulting from damage done to lung tissue by the pneumonia. Or as stated in the Snopes analysis: "Fibrosis occurs when excess connective tissue is deposited in the lungs in response to scarring or other factors." So, seems fibrosis is part of the late stage healing process, not the early infection stage.

So, fibrosis is the last thing to happen, not the first. Still seems the best indicator, outside of an actual test, are symptoms (which can be easily googled) which seem to be a low grade fever, body aches, tiredness and dry cough (it's an upper respiratory infection, not a GI tract (need toilet paper) illness.

=====

Heard yesterday a major, large and popular restaurant in a small city about 30 miles from me announced they would be giving away all of their food stocks, before they spoiled, to residents in that city. They put limits on what any one person could take and seems they helped out a lot of people in their city. That restaurant for years has served hundreds of tables and probably more than a 1,000 customers during just one 4 hour period every Friday for their weekly Friday fish fry (which did not happen this past Friday).

Take that a step back and those food suppliers who sold goods to that and all restaurants have seen sales and deliveries dry up. This morning I heard that these companies that supply foodstuffs to restaurants have very large inventories that will begin to go bad. Would be nice if all that food could some how make it to homeless shelters, hospitals, grocery stores or other places where it could help undo the senseless hoarding spurred by the sensationalized media reporting.

The downside is that when restaurants begin to open, there will be a shortage in their food supply chain which will take months, if not years, to level out and get back into a normal daily supply pipeline. Menus at restaurants will be limited when they reopen.

For a septuagenarian, I've seen a lot of firsts in the world but this is a "new" first for me. And working in a vital industry, I get to go to work this coming week and drive several hundred miles so I will be seeing the affects first hand. One gets a good, strong hand perspective on what this virus is doing to our economy seeing major city ghost towns. Empty streets, sidewalks and parking lots. Skeleton staffs in buildings that are still open being vital concerns. So many dark store fronts of any business that catered to the general public and all with a 8 1/2 by 11 inch sheet of paper taped to their front doors saying closed until further notice.

Interesting times we are living in these days. The first I've seen which has put a very strong emphasis on self awareness and personal responsibility.

It looks like our high temps this week are supposed to range from 76F to 82F.  As much as I dread another horribly hot summer, there maybe some benefit.

Quote from: TelePlay on March 22, 2020, 09:23:22 AM
With a lot of unknown, true and false accusations, fear and panic, things are posted which sometimes are not correct. One of those, which I've now seen posted 3 times at unrelated platforms proposes a simple test to determine if one has the virus. The third was this morning on the TCI ListServ.

https://groups.io/g/singingwires/message/150332

This was debunked by Snopes on March 11th

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/

along with an explanation of why this was not correct. As I see it, and I'm not a doctor, fibrosis of the lungs is something that occurs AFTER pneumonia is cured, is a result of the damage done to tissue by pneumonia (any type of pneumonia) or the creation of scar tissue resulting from damage done to lung tissue by the pneumonia. Or as stated in the Snopes analysis: "Fibrosis occurs when excess connective tissue is deposited in the lungs in response to scarring or other factors." So, seems fibrosis is part of the late stage healing process, not the early infection stage.

So, fibrosis is the last thing to happen, not the first. Still seems the best indicator, outside of an actual test, are symptoms (which can be easily googled) which seem to be a low grade fever, body aches, tiredness and dry cough (it's an upper respiratory infection, not a GI tract (need toilet paper) illness.

I agree with this 100%.

Consult an official medical website for detailed and accurate information, the message shown on TCI is written by the poster as if it is information received from a close associate when it is in fact just a circulating message of misinformation. It should be removed, I hope the powers that be there will take heed.

Thank you Teleplay for alerting us and for adding the Snopes link.

It looks like it is lots of wrong information out there, so be careful.  How to protect yourselves from virus, or others from virus in case you have got it without knowing is the main issue.  Some are told to drink hot tea or coffee, and yes it is good-- tasting, but not killing the virus.  The sad (or??) thing is that isolation and distance together with traditional good hygienic behavior is the main thing.   
Here we are running out of protective clothing for the hospitals etc.  We have not been prepared at all, unless you are a prepper.

Lots of people are out of their jobs, In Oslo the restaurant has strict limitations, and do mainly serve with walkaway. Alcohol are banned at restaurants you should not be more than 5 people  together, not even at home (how to find out?) We have got temporary laws etc. etc. 

Lucky me, I can do my work from home, difficult, and lots to learn as a teacher on a high-school.  Now I am learning to use the next generation of telephony they say, Microsoft Teams.  It is actually much more job to make all this from home, than at school.

Take care, using the telephones are a safe way of keeping in touch  ;)

dsk

Many stores and restaurants are closed, factories are closing putting keep out of work while this is on going. Hospitals are pleading for help with masks, protective wear etc as has been said nobody was expecting this at all.

I stop the store for a few things a couple times a week. To keep up on things we go through quickly. I've been able to get some basics. But shelves are getting bare. I don't see delivery trucks in the parking lots like I used to.
We keep forging forward, and are staying healthy in the mean time.

In the apartment building where I live, newspaper delivery has been suspended.  Tenants are in no hurry to recycle their old newspapers because they may need them as a substitute for toilet paper!

Quote from: andre_janew on March 22, 2020, 05:11:15 PM
In the apartment building where I live, newspaper delivery has been suspended.  Tenants are in no hurry to recycle their old newspapers because they may need them as a substitute for toilet paper!

For any considering this, newspaper should not be flushed down toilets, this has already caused sewer blockages which have been reported on news channels.

As someone pointed out when they heard about these blockages '...each person in the household could have their own sponge and use soap and water'.

I actually just read about the blockages reported by Northumbrian Water (who supply the water & drainage where I live), absolutely daft what people do, causing more problems than there needs to be, but it all goes back to the idiots who hoarded the toilet roll, they should foot the bill for all the work needed to be done to unblock sewers and clean up property flooded with sewage...  ::)

As for "alternatives", I've been professing my backup solution in a few places; A couple cheap facecloths, soap, warm water & cheap bleach in a washing up bowl of hot water to sterilise them after use, far better option than using things like kitchen roll or pages from the ScrewFix catalogue!!!  :o

Wouldn't recommend sponges myself as they could retain unwanted nasties (won't go into details!), cloths are far easier to clean... :)

Boise is holding its own.... being retired, I'm already homebound... I actually was able to get a carton of eggs the other day! I hope the hoarding has stopped... if not, then rationing should be imposed (WWII).

Quote from: twocvbloke on March 23, 2020, 07:26:59 AM
...As for "alternatives", I've been professing my backup solution in a few places; A couple cheap facecloths...

That would be a better option I think.

—-

This morning I went to the store to get a few provisions. Pleased to say everyone I saw was calmly and sensibly shopping. No panic buying, no shortages. Here is a photo of the 'paper goods' isle:

Quote from: FABphones on March 23, 2020, 09:25:20 AM
That would be a better option I think.—-

This morning I went to the store to get a few provisions. Pleased to say everyone I saw was calmly and sensibly shopping. No panic buying, no shortages. Here is a photo of the 'paper goods' isle:

That's the way it should be, really no need for all the panic buying and hoarding.

On another note, when I was out this morning to fill up my truck with gas. The price for gas was down to  72.9 cents per litre CDN for regular and 99.9 cents per litre CDN for premium. No line ups for gas.

People still going about their business, but a lot less of them out there.

The drive thru at the Tim Horton's coffee shop had a long line up of vehicles. Grocery store lots are about half full.

Paid $1.49 for a gallon today. Demand for gasoline is low, inventories are backing up, and no one is traveling so the price keeps coming down.

Got my FEMA letter today saying I am working in a vital industry. Need the letter to prove to whatever cops stops me after today asking why I'm out driving around. My stare is putting a lock down into effect about noon on Tuesday. Will be in place for at least 2 weeks if not longer.

Grocery store shelves are iffy. Discount stores have empty isles but the quality product stores, being more expensive for everything, are doing fine. Will be interesting to see what happens once the general population here becomes aware of the lock down. Might be another round of panic buying tonight.

It's just weird. Seems anything can be purchased if one keeps going back to a store a couple of times a day. I think a lot of people, if they are still alive in a couple of months, are going to be staring a stuffed cabinets, freezers and basements for many months to come, wondering why and hopefully feeling a bit foolish as they do.

Food production was not harmed by the virus but it seems many minds were. Well, it shows what mob mentality and a media that over exaggerates everything can do to a well ordered society.

I was reading that though the production hasn't been particularly affected, the distribution networks are being affected by the manpower deficits they are experiencing currently.

Well, the UK is now on lockdown, no leaving home except for essential food & meds shopping, one form of exercise a day, for medical and/or care needs, and to look after others in need of support and/or care...

Sit back & relax folks, we're in it for the long run!!!

Went to town this morning to get a few things again.
People are now wearing rubber gloves who handle money, still not much in paper products, no TP, or paper towel. But staples are in stock still. Milk eggs etc.
But I keep a distance from others as recommended, others don't. They croud me in the check out line and I just make sure to clean my hands often avoid touching my face etc.

I went to tesco this morning for supplies now I have money and it had a lot of bare shelves, whether through people buying "just the essentials" or just lack of stock I don't know, but they did have toilet roll, I didn't need any so didn't pick any up as I'm not a hoarder like that, aswell as some cleaning supplies in the household aisle, but I did notice people maintaining distance, which I appreciated, both from shoppers and staff... :)

Speaking of which I may just nip over there now to get a few more essentials I couldn't carry this morning...

I have been out of my maintenance meds for a week now and the nurse practicioner said I would have to come to be seen before they would refill my prescriptions.  Good set me up an appointment.  It should have been last Saturday afternoon.  Saturday morning I get a call that they are cancelling all appointments by anyone over 60.  I told them I needed to have my prescriptions renewed.  the nurse said I would have to come in and be seen to have them renewed.  I informed her she had just cancelled my appointment for that purpose.  She said she'd ask the physicians assistant to renew some of my medications.  We went around and around like this for another half hour.  You'd think I was asking for random narcotics instead of routine meds for unimportant things like blood pressure.  I guess my biggest problem during this goat rodeo has been to influence the brain dead to do things for me.

Yea I had to go pick up my monthly script for pain meds at the Drs office that is in the hospital. I was stopped shortly after going into the entrance and had to answer questions like have I been out of the country, have I been around anyone known to have the virus, etc .
After answering no to each question they let me pass..
But that was unusual, but expected due to the circumstances. But when I got into the building, the seats were all empty. No one was sitting around waiting for their turn. That was odd, but again expected. Drove my youngest (9) to the park the other day, the play grounds were off limits and no one was around in town, going for walks reminded me of after summer everyone went back to their home state to get ready for school.
So popped into the store for a quick stop and went home. This time of year I'm useually in the house a lot anyway, but to see people avoiding stores and restaurants only doing take out its just so strange.
It will be nice when this is over, and hopfuly China will have learned a very expensive but valuable lesson on what not to do with a marketplace in public.

One thing I like about my doc is they will accept telephone prescription renewal requests during this pandemic, and for the older folk (like the uncle & mother) the local chemist delivers to the door anyway, so they don't even need to leave the house, one of the blessings of having the NHS, which EVERY country should have!!!

Well here in the US, they can call scripts in but not for heavy pain meds, that I need for severe arthritis pain.
I need to go pick it up, after I sign for it.
On another note, my wife got back from taking out older son to a appointment, she stopped in Wal-Mart for a few things, wile she was in line a woman came and asked her if the two bottles were detergent, because she had two and the limit was one. Because so many people were cleaning off the shelves they have had to resort to rationing things, like soaps hand cleaners paper stuffs like toilet paper.
No she didn't have too many she was fair so others could have something to get too.
Luckily she had bought two large packs just two weeks before this all started, as we have two bathrooms and four people in the house.

Michigan has a Stay at home order
Schools and all non essential businesses are shut down

I for one have been staying home since we got our first case in Michigan a week ago.   We were already set for food since we had butchered a pig.    Been spending time social distancing at home working on my phone collection. 

The transit authority I work for I guess must be an essential business.  The parking lot for the commuters at our station looks like Sunday morning these weekdays.  I get to drive 20 miles there and back each day.  The 1986 gas prices is making at least that easy.  There are supposed to be 24 cases in my county of residence.  All the businesses open here have put orange cloth tape on the floors to mark the interval for socially distanced queuing . 

For me, it is business as usual, just without customers. I work at a Toyota dealer in the service dept. I am told that doctors, nurses, first responders etc all need to depend on their cars so we have to be available to service them. The amount of people coming in is about half of what we usually see so making any money is pretty tough since I am on commission pay. In Broward County Florida it is nearly impossible to find toilet paper which I cannot understand. I get hand sanitizer, disinfectant stuff & all that but why toilet paper? Also hard to find bottled water which does not bother me as we do not use it. Just paying attention, not touching anything the public touches which means wearing gloves a lot, keeping distance, washing hands & clothes, all the common sense stuff which is recommended.

I saw a voicemail from the authority I work for and it was from the general manager.  In addition to thanking us for our work, they are going to give us a $50 bonus to cover our sanitization products that we have had to provide ourselves because the authority has none.  There were 8 cars in a 300 car parking lot for commuters here at this location.

Well that's one good thing, you get covered for sanitizing expense. I've been looking at some videos on you tube, yes some are not reliable. But some are very compelling talking about how China down played this, and is again. Patting them selves on the back for doing a great job with containment.
Really, I think a LOT of other countrys would have something contrary to that statement.

Quote from: HarrySmith on March 25, 2020, 11:17:54 AMbut why toilet paper?

An act of herd stupidity...

The reason there has been mass panic buying of the stuff is due to Australia being dependent on China producing theirs, as for some reason Oz doesn't make its own (I have a feeling some enterprising soul will be setting up papermills there now!!!), and China closed its' borders to in and outgoing travel, so people of course bought as much as they could in a mass act of greed, this ends up on the news & in online media and people with zero common sense think the same'll happen in their country too so they go out and buy it all up, even though their country does make their own loo roll (E.G. the UK has more than enough stocks and manufacturing capacity to keep us wiping for months if we're sensible, but, common senseless idiots didn't know that!), thus causing mass panic, greed and stupidity to cause such unnecessary shortages...

It's one of them sad acts of humanity which just makes the human race look like a giant flock of sheep running over a cliff...

Well China has been making everything for many country's for years. Now things are changing real fast, and yea people are panicking still can't get toilet paper around here now either if it goes on the shelf someone is there to take it away. Some stores are limiting how much one person can buy. But big stores can't keep that person from coming back in several times to get these items.
Some one said it eirly on don't panic.
Seems that statement just created more panic.
But by nature people are selfish and want what they want, and don't care who they hurt by taking too much.
I'm concerned, I'm taking precautions and so far I'm fine. But I'm not clearing shelves to buy everything I can for me or my family.
I wonder do these people know that a shower works better than toilet paper. Takes just a couple minutes more and doesn't use toilet paper.
A wash cloth, and a washer your golden.
But I'm glad that some of these who tried to make a killing selling hand cleaner sanatizers etc got shamed or just shut down by Amazon, and other places to end that frenzy.

Thanks for that.

The Urban Dictionary added a new word today: Covidiot.  That covers a lot of people including the media.

That word was created after it became known that within the past day, 2 covidiots perpetrated acts of which one has been charged as bio-terrorism. It's not a joke. What happened to this country's educational system? Our humanity in the 21st century? This is a deadly serious event this year. Hopefully a vaccine will be available before next flu season when it has a good chance of reoccurring.

1) 

WARRENTON, Mo (https://www.fox61.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/whos-scared-of-the-coronavirus-man-arrested-after-licking-walmart-products-in-missouri/520-e79bfa50-9e53-4b5c-a4be-c491286dc8d4). — A man in Missouri was arrested after licking a row of products on a Walmart shelf and filming it, then posting it to social media.

Before licking the items he said, "Who's scared of the coronavirus?" The video also has text on it that reads, "I'm a nasty moths ******!!!"

The Warrenton Police Department on Monday released a statement on Facebook saying the video gained international attention. Local authorities said they received reports about the video from people as far away as the Netherlands, Ireland, and the United Kingdom.

2)

NEPTUNE, N.J. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/25/new-jersey-man-coughs-wegmans-employee-said-he-had-coronavirus/5076707002/) – A man is facing charges after coughing on a Wegmans employee in New Jersey and claiming he had the coronavirus, authorities said.

George Falcone, 50, of Freehold Township, was charged with making terroristic threats, harassment and obstruction after officials said he refused to identify himself or provide identification to township police for more than 40 minutes, according to a news release from the state Attorney General's Office.

Gov. Phil Murphy, who mentioned the incident at a news conference Tuesday, said police responded to a call after a man was in a confrontation with a female employee of the supermarket chain and then "coughed on the woman and told her after doing so that he had the coronavirus."

Here's the selfie . . .

Like the two teenagers who were video taping them selves coughing on produce in a market in VA.
Why do these people have to prove them selves as idiots! That's nothing short of blatant stupidity.
Here in New Hampshire, a guy who knew he was infected chose to go to a social function anyway.
Another rode three buses in the city. What is this world coming to? People who only give a hoot about them selves and don't at the same time.
The later are those who lick things in public how gross.
Amazing how totally idiotic these people are.
What if they found out later by doing such an idiotic thing actually got the virus? What would he do then?
People are dying because of this, yet others who know they are infected ride buses, or attempt social events.
God help us all from these idiots who think only of them selves? I just can't fathom how they can do such stupid things in this time of crisis.
Well may be if these who continue to do these things ought to be brought up on charges.
Maybe if they survive they will have time to think back on how actually idiotic those stunts were.
Sure just throw the book at them.
Don't waste money on lengthy trials with expencive lawyers just put them away for a while.
Maybe in a phyc ward.
Wow, crazy!

I've heard that some idiots in Scotland are going round spitting on their hands and wiping them on car doors, police are of course on the lookout for them, because that's a pretty seriously stupid thing to be doing...

Idiots like these just don't believe how dangerous the virus is, what it can do to not only them but to others, and spreading it about intentionally is a criminal offence, but they're too stupid to understand these facts!!!

This is why I keep saying that it's not the virus that worries me, it's the humans and their behaviour...

With respect to the above mentioned events, for some reason some just don't play well with others, do not understand their part in their natural social contract with humanity. It seems they think the established societal norms do not apply to them. Is it ignorance, stupidity, ego issues, contrarianism, peer groups, all of the above or something else which leads to their anarchy?

Well, it now seems that in these times such behavior in the US may put these miscreants in a small cell for a very long time.

=====

WASHINGTON (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/justice-department-says-coronavirus-crimes-can-be-charged-acts-terrorism-n1168481) — The Justice Department has notified the nation's federal prosecutors that anyone threatening or attempting to spread the coronavirus can be charged with terrorism.

The coronavirus appears to meet the statutory definition of a biological agent, Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen said in a memo sent late Tuesday to U.S. attorneys and federal law enforcement agencies, which could bring crimes related to it under terrorism statutes.

"Threats or attempts to use COVID-19 as a weapon against Americans will not be tolerated," the memo says.

Amen! I knew that was coming. This is an extremely serious event but as John said they don't understand they need to coexist with other people. But for some reason they cannot comprehend how.
My sincere hope is this ends sooner than China's event.
But it may be even more serious as some don't understand what stay home means.
I haven't been out on the road for two days. And last I was, it was eerily strange to see on one or two others. I find get out of my truck, I just went for a brief ride through the country to ease the cabin fever.
I hope one one here is affected, but I know someone we know may be. And that's a scary thought.
Stay healthy folks.

It is at least of some comfort seeing smiling faces and pleasant countenances on the people I see when fueling and shopping.  it's good to see, especially when considering what we have hanging over our heads. The parking lot at our station has had just a handful of cars today as well.  I wonder what kind of financial hit the authority has taken.

Went to the Walmart early this morning for eggs. Plenty to choose from. Not many shoppers and everyone is keeping away from others. Nobody wearing masks but several were wearing gloves, which puzzles me in that the virus sticks to gloves the same as it does to hands and it does not enter the body through skin. If it makes them feel better, fine, but it's hands or gloves touching the face that is the dangerous move.

Things are coming back to normal now that the panic buyers no longer have any room in their homes to put their hoarded booty. Looking at the restocked shelves, it makes me smile to think what the hoarders are thinking, feeling or second guessing right now.

Toilet paper, plenty include big brand names like Charmin.
Paper towels, good supply
Raman noodles, plenty to choose from
Cereal, all brands and type on full shelves
Bread, full shelves
Frozen pizza, shelves full
Pasta, shelves full
Fresh meat, shelves are half full with every kind of meat available
Produce, totally restocked
Water, back on the shelves
Hand soaps (bar and soft), fully stocked

But, no surface spray disinfectants or hand sanitizers.

To put a cap on today's trip, found that gas is selling for $1.29 a gallon

eBay is interesting. Search for sold hand sanitizers to see what panic and shortage does to prices (second image) mid March 2020.

The gloves are useful as you can remove and dispose of them, keeping the virus (and other nasties people forget to wash away) off your hands, of course this mandates that you shouldn't touch your face or any other entry point to the body while wearing them otherwise they're just another "skin" covered in nasties, and the masks are a bit of a moot point really as the majority of them available to the public are not able to stop a person inhaling the virus if airborne (E.G. from an unguarded cough or sneeze from an infected person), as they're as effective at blocking viruses as a sieve is at retaining water, the only use they do come into is if the user HAS the virus, and any coughs and sneezes are slowed down by the mask, reducing the likelihood of spreading... :)

One of the other issues is that surgical masks are often fitted to the person's face to be as close-fitting as possible, but Average Joe on the street won't have fitted it properly leaving it open around the edges, basically making it more of a decoration than a filter...

Quote from: twocvbloke on March 27, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
The gloves are useful as you can remove and dispose of them, keeping the virus (and other nasties people forget to wash away) off your hands, of course this mandates that you shouldn't touch your face or any other entry point to the body while wearing them otherwise they're just another "skin" covered in nasties, and the masks are a bit of a moot point really as the majority of them available to the public are not able to stop a person inhaling the virus if airborne (E.G. from an unguarded cough or sneeze from an infected person), as they're as effective at blocking viruses as a sieve is at retaining water, the only use they do come into is if the user HAS the virus, and any coughs and sneezes are slowed down by the mask, reducing the likelihood of spreading... :)

One of the other issues is that surgical masks are often fitted to the person's face to be as close-fitting as possible, but Average Joe on the street won't have fitted it properly leaving it open around the edges, basically making it more of a decoration than a filter...

exacftly and soasp and water is a lot more plentiuful a nd chaeper than gloves

Thanks to all for their ongoing updates. And nice to read some good news on this thread too.

Glove info as mentioned by teleplay backed up here, with additional info too:
https://www.france24.com/en/20200327-grocery-shopping-amid-the-pandemic-which-protective-measures-should-we-take

Today it was announced the lockdown in France is to be extended until April 15th.

Wishing good health to all.

A timely sentiment...

In case you may find this interesting, this was just published today at

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/cellphone-heat-map-coronavirus-potential-spread-from-travel

and is both an interesting and scary look at a few realities. The companies stated in bold below can do this, track phones from space.

The article says this of the source: "Heat maps that show cellphone location data in the U.S. paint a disturbing picture of the potential spread of coronavirus as the country grapples with lockdown measures and tries to stem the virus' tide.

Tectonix, geospatial data visualization platform, working in partnership with location company X-Mode Social, created an alarming map that shows the impact of ignoring social distancing restrictions.

Focusing on just one group of spring break revelers on part of one beach in mid-March when they left Fort Lauderdale, Fla., it quickly becomes obvious that the thousands of people who were at the beach ended up all over the country -- in the Midwest, the Northeast and other parts of the South."

The maps below have poor resolution thanks to YouTube suspending HD videos, everything seems to be SD for the time being due to stay at home internet usage.

The first map shows all active cell phones world wide on a given day or hour taken during the annual migration of college students enjoying their spring break on the warm Florida beaches, an annual thing for decades.

Second map is zoomed in to the south east United States

Third map is further zoomed in to the Fort Lauderdale area in Florida

Fourth map is further zoomed in to the Fort Lauderdale beach area

Fifth map show the active cell phones on only the beach have been selected or tagged

Sixth map shows the location of all those phones, the phones of those students who were not practicing the 6' social distancing request, some time a week or so after the spring break ended.

The phones spread out from one small, crowded beach to cities from Atlanta to the greater Chicago area to the state of Michigan and all points east of that line, where all of the major universities and colleges were located. If the maps had a better resolution, one could pick out the university cities.

This shows how the virus is spread by thoughtless behavior putting many more than just the college students in jeopardy. Italy was just the opposite where many of the Chinese peoples living and working in the garment industry of northern Italy went back home for the Chinese New Year in February and returned to congregate in the smaller northern Italy where they were working and caused the hot area now hitting that area of Italy.

This is one of many sites that detail this problem in norther Italy

https://www.rebellionresearch.com/blog/northern-italy-wuhan-partners-for-better-or-worse

"Why has Italy suffered so catastrophically from this virus that originated out of Wuhan, China?

The answer lies in the connection between northern Italy and Wuhan, China. Two very seemingly distant geographies are actually extremely tied together.

Italy was the first country to offer direct flights from Europe to China 50 years ago and was also the first G-7 country to embrace China's Belt and Road Initiative.

Northern Italy has a very prosperous fashion and apparel industry. Many of the most famous brands around the world from Gucci to Prada originated in the region. As China has offered cheaper manufacturing for their apparel factories, more and more Italian fashion houses have outsourced work to China, and specifically to Wuhan.

Italy created direct flights from Wuhan and allowed over 100,000 citizens from China to move to Italy and work in their factories. In addition, as the Chinese became increasingly wealthy over the last two decades, more and more Chinese citizens moved to northern Italy to reside and many Chinese purchased Italian firms.

Today there are now more than 300,000 Chinese nationals living in Italy, according to Fortune Magazine, and over 90% of them work in Italy's garment industry."

But this reply is the inverse to what happened to Northern Italy. Hoards of students intent on 24/7 parties congregated on a small beach for a week without concern for the spreading virus and when the week was over, they then spread out, went back home or to school.

=====

I found the existence of these cell phones both interesting a scary reality of who's watching who, or can watch who and who knows at what level. Shows the reality of unconcerned behavior by some, or many. At least it's a good example of how disease spreads, any communicable disease.

Quote from: TelePlay on March 27, 2020, 08:16:22 PM
I found the existence of these cell phones both interesting a scary reality of who's watching who, or can watch who and who knows at what level. Shows the reality of unconcerned behavior by some, or many. At least it's a good example of how disease spreads, any communicable disease.

Very interesting John. Thanks for posting.

Quote from: twocvbloke on March 27, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
One of the other issues is that surgical masks are often fitted to the person's face to be as close-fitting as possible, but Average Joe on the street won't have fitted it properly leaving it open around the edges, basically making it more of a decoration than a filter...

For me, I'm not inclined to touch my face when wearing gloves, plus they can be discarded after visiting the store (washing isn't much of an option).

As for the masks, i'm amazed at the number of people wearing the mask on their chin - nose and/or mouth not covered...

J

I did a small part in helping yesterday. On the local news they were asking people donate any extra unused Masks, Gloves and Face shields to help with the shortage. I had a unopened box of Nitrile gloves in the cupboard. I dropped them off at my family doctor's office. The were happy to get them. They said someone had dropped off some N95 Masks earlier in the week.

I would like to give a big shout out to all essential front line workers, no matter where they are. Thank you for your service!

Quote from: Duffy on March 27, 2020, 08:29:43 PM
Very interesting John. Thanks for posting.

Here is the last map from above processed a bit showing where all of those 870,000 individual cell phones that were identified on just one beach in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, week after spring break ended. Interesting but scary stuff.

I overlaid a map of the US and labeled the brightest spots. The bright spots correlate well with major universities. Will be interesting to see if the spots, other than NYC, become medical hot spots in a week or two. Knowing what we do about NYC now, it could be that infected students from NYC went to Fort Lauderdale and spread the virus around to others. The newly infected have returned to their homes or universities and continued to spread it there. Ignorance and stupidity is the bane of mankind.

https://youtu.be/RawiZj8eNo4
Here's a good mood lifter. I haven't seen it posted here.
Take a look

Just been to my local Tesco store for a top-up shop, and they've implemented distancing and limitations, with lines everywhere to ensure customers stay at least 6ft or 2 metres apart, maximum of 40 customers in the store, operating a one-out, one-in system with bouncers at the door, and trolleys being sanitised as they're dropped off at the trolley shed thing, quite the experience, felt a little unnerving really...

I stopped in the local groseriy store yesterday, I found hand sanitizer a plenty, soaps etc...
No toilet paper still, not one roll.
It's possible they aren't full stocking the shelves but putting out only a little at a time to curb hoarding.
I've seen that before in the same store.
But everyone is maintaining 6' or 2 meters as well some much more. And I'm glad of that.

I read today that the UK has spent 5.8 million pounds sterling writing a letter to every resident in the UK about the virus. This letter was also published on Twitter and no doubt elsewhere. In this day and age with all the alternative communication options available I consider this an unnecessary waste of money.

5.8 million pounds would have been better spent on the many requirements of the health service.

Utter stupidity.

One bit of advice for the lines, I bought a folding 3 ft. high stool that I used for the labyrinthine lines at the driver's license office.  It comes in handy for many occasions.

That's good advise, I'm handicap so having a place to sit and portable is good. Though I don't get into many situations where there are long lines to stand in.

This is the one I got.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Folding-Metal-Stool-Black/17165149

Thankfully the line at tesco moved fairly quickly, I'd already moved two positions before I could take the picture above, people were going around the store relatively quickly so the one-out one-in scheme was processed quickly... :)

One additional thing I have noticed that is directly related to this pandemic is a new type of litter. Gloves! Plastic gloves, latex gloves, cloth gloves, you name it, all over parking lots, gas stations etc. The worst seems to be the supermarkets, I could not believe all the gloves I saw strewn all over the place yesterday at my local market! C'mon people! Use a trash can!

Quote from: TelePlay on March 28, 2020, 01:24:32 PM
Here is the last map from above processed a bit showing where all of those 870,000 individual cell phones that were identified on just one beach in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, week after spring break ended. Interesting but scary stuff.

I overlaid a map of the US and labeled the brightest spots. The bright spots correlate well with major universities. Will be interesting to see if the spots, other than NYC, become medical hot spots in a week or two. Knowing what we do about NYC now, it could be that infected students from NYC went to Fort Lauderdale and spread the virus around to others. The newly infected have returned to their homes or universities and continued to spread it there. Ignorance and stupidity is the bane of mankind.

John, that is very scary stuff! Ignorance and stupidity, you are being too kind!

 :( I just found out that a good friend of mine tested positive. its starting to hit home now....

Fingers crossed they pull through it... :(

One "good" side benefit from a lot of people being home, besides time to work on phones, is more posts! I always monitor the forum throughout the day at work. There were some days when I only read 2 or 3 posts all day. Those were usually from our members across the pond. Now I am seeing new posts all day long ;D

I hope everyone is doing well. I'm deemed "essential", so off to an empty office I go. Lots on my "to do" list at home, even before starting with phones... (I do enjoy seeing a few more posts on the forum when I get home.)

Stay safe everyone!

Yea I agree I like the frequent posts now,

I had the joy of queuing for 75 minutes this morning to do the weekly Tesco shop. They've made a theme park type queuing system in the carpark from delivery cages and are running pretty much a one person out, one person in system. Everyone was happy enough though and I had a laugh and a joke with a few total strangers.
Once in the shop they've put arrows in the aisles to try and encourage a one way system, which is mostly working well.
Most goods are still available but some such as flour and rice were absent.
On the way home I passed Aldi and noticed that the queue there was only about 5 people. Unfortunately their range is far more limited than Tesco's.
Strange times indeed.
:)

On the other hand, I had an Email from Sam's club saying they had special hours for seniors and high risk folks on Tuesday and Thursday mornings.  I went yesterday and the parking lot was full and there was a crowd of people in front of the store entrance pretty much touching each other.  There must've been 200 people there.  I saw that as I was driving in and I just drove on around and left.  I can't imagine there were that many seniors and high risk types.  I know they were certainly high risk bunching up like that.

The Tesco in the photo gives priority from 9 - 10 AM Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday for NHS workers and Monday, Wednesday, Friday for elderly and vulnerable customers.
I've not seen it in action though as I don't qualify on either count.
:)

I think all tesco stores are alternating between NHS and Elderly & Vulnerable customers, mine's doing the same, but I haven't been there at those times myself though, so don't know how they're managing it or who turns up...

Didn't quite get the NHS worker one though cos most of them would be at work between 9 & 10am, my doctor certainly is (their surgery is next to my local tesco, so they could go if needed, but, I think they're more needed in their job) as they open the doors at 8:30am... ???

It has been 12 days since I last ventured out to the supermarket. We needed milk, so today was the chosen day for us to stock up on necessities. I am the allocated shopper for the household and these spaced out supermarket trips are the only time I go out. No one else goes out at all. We are on week three of lockdown (the Attestation - movement form - has to be completed for each trip out, Police checks are in force to ensure this is complied with and heavy fines are payable for anyone without).

I am trying to be careful. Face mask, and a snood over that ::),  this week I have been pulling up Brambles and my hands are shredded so gloves were on. I anti-bac the trolley before use. On my return to the vehicle I anti-bac the gloves before removing (and discard them into bin once home).
Hands are then anti-bac'd too. The car handles in and out then also receive an anti-bac along with the steering wheel, gear stick and any other parts I may have touched.

Once home no one is allowed to touch anything I bring in. I even anti-bac the soles of my shoes (I guess farm living makes me think of that).

In my experience so far, the supermarkets have been almost business as usual. Today I saw more face masks. No queues to get into the store, only one person in front of me at the checkout, and no one behind until I was practically through.

No special allocated hours here, from what I have seen, the stores have fewer shoppers in them.

——

Three Teddy Bears accompanied me today, all taking part in the 'Bear Hunt'.
:)

It looks like the store is well stocked.

One good thing is that stocks are beginning to look more normal here, granted there's still things missing (toilet roll, dry goods & cleaning supplies), but the rest of the shelves in Tesco were reasonably stocked, well, aside from the lagers in the alcohol aisle, since pubs were closed people have been clearing the boxes of cheap lager out, thankfully leaving the quality beers alone for people with taste, like me...  ;D

I just read an article that compared the sales figures of a couple goods and beer was the most constant item. Huh, I thought we Germans are beer drinkers?
I stocked a couple boxes, just in case. Harder to replace than the much discussed paper products.

You're beer makers as well.  In many countries.  Many of our national brands were started by German immigrants.  They knew the right way to make it.

Quote from: tubaman on April 03, 2020, 09:52:05 AM
I had the joy of queuing for 75 minutes this morning to do the weekly Tesco shop.

Crikey. I haven't tried a Tesco shop under the new rules. Asda had a queue of about 20-30 people across the car park, and Aldi was 15, so I got stuff from Aldi. They even had a little pasta left. No pasta sauce though.

Need to go to Tesco soon though. Problem is Aldi milk only lasts for about 7 days; Tesco and Asda milk is ok for 10 days after purchase.

So far we don't have to carry permission forms - not sure what people without printers at home do.

Now here's a thought - hardly anyone uses public phones any more, but if this had happened in the 1970s would the GPO (or equivalent) have sent out phone cleaning teams, or would the kiosks have been chained shut?

Colorado is on stay at home until April 30. Today they put in a mask requirement.

We need to wear masks when outside, It is supposed to be a cool mask that you made at home with materials on hand.  we should have fun with it.
Masks may help, they won't hurt.

To be honest, a bandana a la the old west bad guys would do as well.

I tend to find myself more out of breath when using masks, not sure if it's just a psychosomatic effect (aka, all in my head!) or if it's the masks restricting airflow, but I struggle with them, almost like a semi-claustrophobia thing...  ???

I do have a facemask for dealing with "organic vapours" (aka solvents, gases like ammonia & chlorine, bad smells in general, etc.), but utterly useless against other things like bacteria and viruses, especially given it has a release valve that lets my breath out unfiltered, so if I were to be a carrier of the lurgy, it wouldn't stop me from emitting it...

I find the demand for masks irrational.  If any mandate was put upon wearing these security blankets, there would be thousands turned away from their necessary activities because they cannot be had.  You would also find people wearing the same mask day after day just to be able to shop, get prescriptions or get fuel with no benefit whatsoever.  This is one of those occasions where reason HAS to overcome simple fear.

I live in the sticks in central New Hampshire, I have not worn a mask but I do have health issues such as athsma. And if I breathe in a virus such as that I will get sick. I'm considering wearing one in public.
And yes I too have problems breathing easy with one on. But it's because the air is limited coming in.
The biggest thing about a mask is keeping it disinfected. If the mask should become infected and I touch the out side, and then anything else, it will potenally contaminate anything I touch.
So I agree a mask is iffy at best.
Plus all I can find is a dust mask, not a NIOSH mask by anymeans. So am I just wasting my effort?
I used to work in a metal finishing shop and at times was required to wear a 3M 65 mask, NIOSH rated.
But that was 15 years ago, and everything is either unavailable, or very limited.
So I'm still weighing my options.
Even my 9 year old son is scared to go out for fear of getting the virus. But he's that way anyway.
I do limit my time in the store, was my hands asap, etc so far so good. But this is truly freaky.

Many people I see around here wearing a mask will shift it up to their forehead or their neck to talk, then put it back over their face.  I'm sorry, that is just having one as a talisman.  I just don't want to be forced to wear one that I can't get, to be able to go foraging about for the things I need.  I don't even know what level of supply that they have these days, but I would get dust respirator masks, not the dancing bear looking paper bowls, that have better filtration, and would be good for several outings provided they were cleaned and allowed to dry after each use.

I hear ya, it's a PITA but better safe than dead.
I just got back from getting gas and food, nobody at the gas station, but a few in the store about 15% were wearing masks that looked  home made.
I didn't wear mine, but next time I will.
I'm thinking of my family more I don't want to get sick. But if it happens what can I do..

Have you noticed Matilo's updated blog?
http://www.matilo.eu/1918/english-warning-virus-keep-your-telephone-sane/?lang=en (http://www.matilo.eu/1918/english-warning-virus-keep-your-telephone-sane/?lang=en)

My Walmart has an exterior queue set up with the number of shoppers (plus employees) not to exceed 800 in the store. Walked right in at  noon today. Might have been 100 cars in the car park so my guess at total shoppers when I was there had to be about 200-300. Everyone stayed away from everybody else.

Shelves have been restocked, including loo paper. Hand sanitizers still out. Plenty of soaps and plenty of food.

Gas is down to $1.13 per gallon.

=====

As for masks, the N95 rating means the mask is NOT (N) resistant to oils and it will catch particles as small as 0.3 microns 95% of the time. It seems the N95 masks are trapping ejected moisture droplets carrying the virus and not the virus itself. An R95 is the same but it is also resistant to oils.


Size in microns (1 micron is 1 millionth of a meter)

Viruses               0.005 - 0.3
Bacteria              0.3 - 60
Liquid Droplets    0.5 - 5 (human sneezes, coughs and speaking loudly, projecting)
Anthrax              1.0 - 5
Mold                   3.0 - 12
One inch      25400.0

If interested, and can understand research papers, this one compared the N95 material to a few cotton fabrics.

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744

The test results are in terms of penetration of particles, not stopping or capture so an N95 mask rated to stop particles down to 0.3 microns 95% of the time is the same as having 5% of the particles 0.3 microns or larger penetrate the mask.

The study found the "Average penetration levels for the three different cloth masks were between 74 and 90%, while N95 filter media controls showed 0.12% at 5.5 cm s−1 face velocity. The penetration levels increased significantly for the N95 control filter media but remained <5%."

In other words, cotton masks help some: 74-90% of test particles were not stopped by the cotton masks while 5% or less of the particles were not stopped by the N95 mask material.

I've seen a lot of different face and hand coverings the past few days and if those wearing what they came up with makes them feel better, that's great. However, this image from Pennsylvania is something else.

I've seen Coke bottles made  into masks on YouTube, some look quite odd but I don't know what they use for filtration. But seems to me protecting your self from possible air born particulates is fine.
I don't want to be in a hospital with contaminated patents with one. But in general public areas it seems it should at least help.
We now have an mask order in new hampshire. Or it's highly recomended. And I have a board meeting tomorrow at 1. I don't think it's all that important, but one guy will screw us if we don't try to place him on HOLD, and forget to pick up later. People..

I think the masks are more for the protection of others than yourself. If they help reduce the particles in your breath from dropping onto surfaces etc then that will slow the spread in the community.
:)

Quote from: tubaman on April 05, 2020, 03:56:18 AM
I think the masks are more for the protection of others than yourself. If they help reduce the particles in your breath from dropping onto surfaces etc then that will slow the spread in the community.
:)

That is the theory behind the Colorado stance. 
The Gov stated the project promo  had been in planning for at least a week.
The promotion is to make masks cool . When masks are cool, It is socially unacceptable to go to the store w/o one.
PLEASE NOTE: these are supposed to be homemade masks, using materials at hand. A bandana or old concert T were some official suggestions.

The official stance is wear one whenever you leave your house.
The user stance  is put it on before you enter a store.
Jim

Yea that makes sense. Just protection where ever you can is best.

Who are these people, where did they come from?

=====

4/5/2020 11:29 AM PT
This is a terrifying scene for every store clerk these days -- a woman coughing and spitting in rage while checking out at a California Walmart!!!

The crazy altercation went down in Yreka, CA when the woman got into a spat over her bill while she was at the register this past week. Apparently, she felt she was overcharged and wanted to glance at the screen, but the Walmart worker told her to back up. That's when the spit started hitting the fan.

A manager walked over and tried to calm her down, but the woman spun into a full-blown meltdown ... suddenly beginning to cough and SPIT on a Walmart staffer ... who immediately dialed 9-1-1.

If you thought that was crazy, just watch the cringe-worthy aftermath of her trying to explain why she did what she did. Spoiler ... it's got something to do with a crackpot theory about dispelling phlegm, to get rid of the virus. She also brought up "dumb blondes."

Anyway, there's more ... but we'll let you watch. Eventually, cops reportedly arrived and escorted her out. It's unclear if she was arrested.

https://apple.news/AnXSoZX6PQCGeKyPmhnLHiw

Here is another story about the Covid Crazies. These people are just losing their common sense.

A security guard at a Walmart in Sherbrooke, Que. is in critical condition after being hit by a driver frustrated by the store's COVID-19 prevention measures.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/sherbrooke-walmart-coronavirus-hit-and-run-1.5522500 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/sherbrooke-walmart-coronavirus-hit-and-run-1.5522500) 

Yup the madness is setting in. I predict there will be lots more before this is over.

There's a reason the word "Covidiot" was added to UrbanDictionary, given plenty of people are displaying symptoms of being a selfish youknowhwat during a time when we all need to work together to stop a virus spreading, but they're too self-righteous and self-entitled to give a monkeys about other people who are working hard to keep things going, because the next step is a total lockdown, where you're not allowed out of the house at all without written permission from the authorities...

Yea, some will never "get it" but such is life.
I'm looking forward to the vaccine that several are developing. To stop this darn thing.

It looks like there may be a couple of intervention medications showing promise as well.

I hope you may read this page, tells a lot about our situation after 3 weeks with extremely strict regulations. No schools , kindergartens, churches, private parties, bars, restaurants or more than 5 persons in the a group outdoors or indoors.  Lots without jobs, etc.    If you cant open the link you may have to try tunneling.

https://www.vg.no/spesial/2020/corona/ (https://www.vg.no/spesial/2020/corona/)

dsk

Quote from: 19and41 on April 06, 2020, 01:26:13 PM
It looks like there may be a couple of intervention medications showing promise as well.

Yes, you are correct in that. hydroxychloroquine has been used for decades for a couple of diseases and seems to be both a prophylactic and therapeutic drug for Covid-19. There are others but his one seems to work and has been approved for human use decades ago.

No, it hasn't been tested for efficacy with Covid but that would take over a year and since doctors all over the world are now using it as something that helps people recover. That's the anecdotal part Fauci keeps warning about.

I realize Fauci can't say it is effective since his whole life and current job is based on vaccines and cures that have gone through 1 to 2 year testing. Without that, he can't say they work. Doctors who have saved peoples lives with them can and are saying this can save lives. If you are on your deathbed, what have you got to use getting a drug that has worked even if Fauci can not say it is effective?

I told my wife that if I end up in bad shape in a hospital, make sure my doctor gives me hydroxychloroquine. I'll take an anecdotal cure from a doctor over dying any day.

A vaccine will take more than a year to find out which of those being considered work the best with the least side affects. No one wants to have another Thalidomide miracle drug problem. Vaccines are given to everyone, eg. Polio, flu, measles, tetanus, hepatitis, etc. Prophylactics are given to people going into a dangerous areas (malaria zones). And therapeutic drugs are given to sick people to make them better just as NSAIDs are  taken when muscles or heads ache, not taken every day to prevent those issues.

And if hydroxychloroquine is both an anecdotal prophylactic and therapeutic drug, we get a game changing two for one in a time of dire need. 

Simple as that. I wish the media would take the blinders and dunce caps off and do true journalism.

=====

Gas today was $0.99 a gallon.

Even if things seem too slow for our current tastes, just remember how long it took to develop a polio vaccine and how long it took to come up with an effective curative medication for the AIDS virus.

The Gov says we may reopen the state April 26 based on current projections. This is subject to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This next part sound strange:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are promoting a "howl" at 8 PM across the state.

At first read this sounds strange, however Howling is supposed to be really good stress relief and currently isn't that socially acceptable. We are being encouraged to howl.

Technically, I think we are supposed to wear a cool homemade cloth mask while we are outside howling.

I have met a few howlers in the past. Typically they only Howl when out camping or in town when a train is going by.

Jim
BTW: I have tried howling in the past. It is liberating.

EDIT>> That is 8:00 PM Mountain Daylight time. Feel free to join in<<EDIT

The governor here Has issued a new final shelter in place order today.  Nothing very padantic about it.  Basically the same common sense regs other states have adopted.

On a different note, my wife went out yesterday morning at 8am to pick up a few things, and was able to get a couple packs of toilet paper!
The limit was two packs to customer, it's cheap no name brand but hey it works.
Can't wait till a vaccine is going to stop this dead, instead of being dead.
Stay safe, and healthy out there people.

I was at tesco earlier for supplies and can also confirm they have reasonable (still below normal though) numbers of toilet roll on the shelves, for those who have held it in this long can rejoice...  ;D

I ventured to the local Walmart on Sunday.  Bought canned soup, stevia extract, tea concentrate, sugar free frosted oatmeal cookies,  fiber powder and foot powder.  I guess if one lowers their aim. there is plenty of game.  I bought a 6 and 9 roll pack of toilet tissue the first weekend.  I think I'll be fixed til at least October.

I stopped at the Super Walmart this morning. They open early for seniors at 6:00. I was thereat 6:10. All 3 things I went in for were not available. They had a lot of boxes stacked waiting to be put out and a few employees stocking shelves. I asked if the things I was looking for, disinfectant spray, wipes & Clorox cleaner were in the boxes and I was told "I don't know. Might be. Whatever is there will be put out shortly". I was on my way to work so I could not stand around and wait. I asked another person to check for me and they were too busy. Great service!

I imagine you didn't miss any of those items there.  I got a bottle of lysol concentrate from an Ebay seller.  The cheapest one there. $29.

Just came across this article.  It might be of use.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/one-chart-shows-how-long-the-coronavirus-lives-on-surfaces-like-cardboard-plastic-wood-and-steel/ar-BB11qzwr?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

Quote from: 19and41 on April 07, 2020, 06:12:24 PM
Just came across this article.  It might be of use.

Thanks, interesting article.

Along those lines, I heard somewhere that things that we touch often should be disinfected frequently and that the virus can last a long time on cat fur so I wiped down my cat with Lysol. My scratches have stopped bleeding, the cat continues to smell funny and he is still mad at me.

I imagine that tasted real good to him.  :)

Quote from: TelePlay on April 07, 2020, 07:58:33 PM
...so I wiped down my cat with Lysol. My scratches have stopped bleeding, the cat continues to smell funny and he is still mad at me.

To anyone considering anything similar PLEASE research first. Am sure teleplay will have looked it up but so many are using chemicals which will harm - or kill - their pet. Besides the harmful effects to hair and skin of many products, 19and41 reminds us that pets self clean and will ingest the product used. NEVER disinfect.

Better to simply wash your hands after stroking your pets.

I really would not worry to pick up anything from the fur of a pet. Same as hard surfaces - there seems to be enough evidence that they are not involved much in spreading this virus. Disinfection will not stop it, as it travels much easier from human to human.

BUT it seems pets can get the infection without getting seriously ill from it. It's not sure they can then infect humans in return (by breathing aerosols).
The actual virus came into being when it was transferred from animals to humans - whenever this happens, there is a chance for mutations and the creation of a new subtype. I don't think it matters whether it's wildlife or pets.  So I think it's a good idea to keep distance from any pets and animals that had close contact with other humans. Disinfectants won't help.

Quote from: FABphones on April 08, 2020, 03:54:29 AM
To anyone considering anything similar PLEASE research first. Am sure teleplay will have looked it up but so many are using chemicals which will harm - or kill - their pet. Besides the harmful effects to hair and skin of many products, 19and41 reminds us that pets self clean and will ingest the product used. NEVER disinfect.

Better to simply wash your hands after stroking your pets.

I suspect TelePlay's post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.......
:)

That was my impression also.

Quote from: tubaman on April 08, 2020, 07:51:18 AM
I suspect TelePlay's post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.......
:)

Thanks tubaman.

Doesn't it just go to show how easy it is read something and see how others may read exactly the same thing and think it is ok to follow suit and do just that.
I had been reading the warnings from Vets telling folks NOT to wash their pets or use products.

Sometimes humor does not cross the continents, or the dopey individual (me).

YEAH. I took it as it as humor.  ;D
As far as pets are concerned what I read was cats get it but dogs do not. Tigers at the Bronx Zoo got the virus from a handler so it will transfer at least one way, not sure about the other. I also read it started in a Chinese bath house, not from an animal. You never know what to believe on the internet, you can always find something contradictory to what you just read so take these statements and any other "facts" about this virus with a grain of salt.

Quote from: FABphones on April 08, 2020, 08:20:22 AM

Sometimes humor does not cross the continents, or the dopey individual (me).

I have always been confused as to what is considered humor over there myself.

I have found cats are good at informing one if they will tolerate a bath.

Quote from: HarrySmith on April 08, 2020, 08:21:33 AM
As far as pets are concerned what I read was cats get it but dogs do not. Tigers at the Bronx Zoo got the virus from a handler so it will transfer at least one way, not sure about the other. I also read it started in a Chinese bath house, not from an animal. You never know what to believe on the internet, you can always find something contradictory to what you just read so take these statements and any other "facts" about this virus with a grain of salt.

Equally, I read no animals can pass it to humans.

Much to learn about this problem, in time the correct answers will come.

———-

British humour, hmmm, me, I am still at the jumping out whilst shouting 'boo' stage.
;D

Lol, oh that poor cat! Your humor is good!

Quote from: tubaman on April 08, 2020, 07:51:18 AM
I suspect TelePlay's post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.......
:)

Yes, you are correct. They say good humor is that which includes a fair portion of the truth. I should have put a  ;) or  ::) or  :) after the humor. I have had a set of two cats since 1990. They never go outside and have always lived the life of Reilly.

That line came to me in two parts, first a video on TV saying to spray and wipe down surfaces that are touched a lot and then a news report I saw about felines (not canines) getting Covid-19 from humans and the virus living for some time on their fur. Those cats that got it would develop a cough but they said, for what they know as of now, that it could not be transferred from cats to humans. So, I put the two together, told the joke to my wife and she laughed. But of course, I was smiling after saying the line so she knew I was kidding. And, anyone who has ever had a cat knows what I meant about bleeding scratches when having to do something with a cat that they find less appealing than simply petting them.

So, I apologize to all who thought I was serious.

Nice to know there are others who have animals who properly care for them and I did not know that there are some who actually do things to their animals that are harmful. Always figured that if one took on the responsibility of ownership and care of any animal, they would do so in the best interest of the animal.

However, the joke did result in several replies with new content which I think added to know knowledge base of this virus.

=====

Local Walmart is limiting capacity to 800 including employees (10% of floor size) but I've never had to wait in a line. People are staying away from others as if they had the plague. And, shelves are returning to normal, except for hand sanitizer which continues to be empty. Top image was loo paper, bottom image is paper towels yesterday morning. They look the same today. Not filled as in normal times but improving after getting past the panic buyer frenzie.

New book coming out, 101 Ways Not To Use a Face Mask. So many ignorant people thinking they are protecting themselves when in fact are putting themselves in greater jeopardy than if they didn't wear one at all. Saw one person who use their right hand to grab the mask by the front, pull it down, scratch their nose with their right hand and then put the mask back in place.

Other than the "big 6" (as I call it: Hand Sanitizer, Masks, gloves, Lysol, rubbing alcohol, Clorox wipes), i've found everything I need (and then some) - except for yeast... 

Has everyone decided to become a baker?  Which is fine with me - leaves more options in the bakery section!

J

The lack of yeast surprised me a bit, too. But it is obvious that people sit at home and start baking, even more as flour was one of the hoarded items.
There are recipes out there on the web to cultivate your own yeast from beer. One I saw used 2 cooked and mashed potatoes (no salt), a teaspoon of sugar and 2 or 3 tablespoons of beer. Let sit for a 2 or 3 days. When you got it going, you can make a starter dough and freeze it for the next time baking.
Best part is that you only need very little beer for the dough ;-)

Distinct shortage of flour in the shops here in the UK, which started pretty much as soon as the virus was announced.  This article from the BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52212760 - throws some light on why. It seems that there is no shortage of flour, just that it is usually mostly sold in bulk bags to factories etc and now consumers want more in their usual small bags. This is causing production packing issues.
:)

Edited to add:

My wife has just returned from Tesco's - had to queue for nearly 3 hours!
She got there at 8am as it was opening and there was bit of queue, which she assumed would move quite quickly, but no. She was told that as they have 85 delivery pickers in the shop and are only allowing 110 total, that only 25 from the queue can be in the shop at any time. Then when it got to 9am they opened for priority shoppers (vulnerable, NHS etc) and the main queue pretty much stopped. She finally entered the shop at 11am.
Next week it'll be Lidl and we'll just go without some things!

Teleplay I knew you were kidding, I also heard about cats and etc as well. But we have one cat who also lives inside, safe from cyotes Fisher cats etc..
But we all wash up when we get home before going about touching things. And we stay home a lot. Starting to get cabin fever though.

Quote from: tubaman on April 10, 2020, 05:23:01 AM
...My wife has just returned from Tesco's - had to queue for nearly 3 hours!
She got there at 8am as it was opening and there was bit of queue, which she assumed would move quite quickly, but no. She was told that as they have 85 delivery pickers in the shop and are only allowing 110 total, that only 25 from the queue can be in the shop at any time. Then when it got to 9am they opened for priority shoppers (vulnerable, NHS etc) and the main queue pretty much stopped. She finally entered the shop at 11am...

Yikes. Sounds like a folding stool, picnic and flask were needed.  :(

Delivery pickers in the shop? Good for those who made orders, not so good for the regular shoppers. Haven't heard about that here.
We were warned to do the easter shopping in time, because good friday and easter monday both are holidays here and the shops are closed. Saturday might get interesting in the shops. I'm stocked up already. I went early on tuesday and the queue just started to build up when I left.

I've not tried getting to Tesco early myself, just through assuming others are doing the same causing queueing, so I've been going mid-afternoon to late evening when it's more peaceful, just being driven nuts by the one-way system they have now which goes in the exact opposite direction that I often walk through the store, broken my routine quite nicely there...  :o

Do they charge enough extra for delivery to warrant having to go through the queue, as opposed to having one of their people pick out the things you wanted in the first place?  That's something I'm debating doing here.

Quote from: countryman on April 10, 2020, 12:48:34 PM
Delivery pickers in the shop?

How do they do that over there in Tesco stores?

My Walmart has employees that pick online orders to be picked up by the buyers outside the building but they have these carts that hold 16 baskets so one picker can handle 16 orders. Most I've seen in one visit was 3 pickers. That actually reduces the number of people in the store at one time if one person is taking the place of 16 others.

I tried online ordering once, just once. They got the order wrong and didn't have some stuff by the time they got around to filling my order. It was available when placed but the delivery slot they gave me was 4 days later and by then, some of the stuff was gone. Not at all happy with online ordering.

Picker charge was to add $5 to the order, which is waived at this time.

Quote from: 19and41 on April 10, 2020, 01:25:25 PM
Do they charge enough extra for delivery to warrant having to go through the queue, as opposed to having one of their people pick out the things you wanted in the first place?  That's something I'm debating doing here.

Delivery is free if you spend more than about £40. However, where I live it is next to impossible to get a delivery slot right now as they are all taken almost as quickly as they are released. I've just done a quick check as I write this and my local Tesco has no delivery slots available at all (and that is up to 30 April).
:(

I did a little looking up and found the delivery service is free at a $35 or more order.  I checked Walmart for pickup of picked and bagged groceries.  It says that is just free.  Our 2 local walmarts do not provide the service.  the nearest is 12 miles away.  That still would be worth the trip for me.

Here in the state of Georgia, it is illegal to wear *any* kind of mask in public! While this law may have been written to discourage KKK masks, it in fact applies as well to ski masks, Halloween masks....and masks to prevent the spread of Covid-19!

The gov'nuh is looking into the possibility of suspending (not repealing) this law for the duration of the emergency...stay tuned.

(Based on part of a story on Atlanta CBS 46 news at 11 PM Friday).

Is it time to open up the economy?

Total deaths in the US right now are about 17% of the deaths last year (490,000) due to the common, annual flu.

The "curve" seems to have been flattened nationwide and the only intent of that curve was to reduce infections so as to not overwhelm hospitals.

This stay at home stuff has to end sometime soon or bankruptcy will be the next epidemic. Is it time to go back to work using hard learned social distancing and personal hygiene practices?

I see they're working out what they are going to do.  It looks  like some of the larger businesses are suffering from high rates of illness absenteeism.  I see the food processors are being hit hard and constricting the flow of foodstuffs.

Quote from: 19and41 on April 15, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
I see they're working out what they are going to do.

I guess I asked the question poorly.

What I was thinking was is it time for we the citizens to move on with our lives and start doing business with learned cautions to prevent irreparable harm to the economic web under which we all survived before being forces, with some good reason, to go into hiding. It's our decision.

The "theys" are driven by lucrative political forces and power, not needed in a time of crises, that are many times not in the interest of the citizens who depend on working for a living to survive and being able to profitably run their businesses to employ those who depend on work to survive.

Are we ready to take what we have learned and begin to live our lives with proper personal caution and responsibilities, to exercise out rights and freedoms as they were for centuries prior to the Wuhan release, regardless of what they say for reasons unknown to us.

Life's a risk. We are born, we live, we learn and we die one way or another. That's life.

So, are we individuals (some, none or all) ready to move forward with what we have learned, with our new found ability to do our own risk evaluations in conjunction with the cost/benefit analysis of actions based on those evaluations going forward, over the past few months? Is it time to come out of the panic cave give current virus statistics?

Seeing these events transpire, I remember when I was young in the early sixties and seeing the adults and their fears and concerns about contagious illnesses and their telling about when they had to exercise precautions against such illnesses.  I guess I was given some comfort inasmuch as many of the illnesses they feared were held in check by vaccines and antibiotics.  It just takes so very little for a new threat to take form.  Now we have several routes to take to develop vaccines.  Imagine when there were hardly any.  We have seen parallels from 9/11 to Pearl Harbor and now this outbreak to the 1918 pandemic.  It's quite sobering when all the chips are on the table.

 I have to agree with John. If we don't start moving again then there's going to be a whole different problem that comes out of things shutting down.
Distancing, wearing masks and disinfecting surfaces should be top priority.
I realise it's a huge job, but a vaccine is months away at best. If we take reasonable precautions we should be safer. Only thing is to keep the panic people from getting into fist fights in stores because they insist on taking a stroll through the Isles in the stores.
I see that around here, people stand in the middle of the isle reading their shopping list and reading ingredients on labels then putting the stuff back.
I'm handicapped and it's very hard to stand and wait and wait for some people to go forward. And if you walk by them some get testy and mouthy.
I go in get what I want and leave, I don't linger reading ingredients on the darn package.

At the moment I'm okay with things being somewhat reduced in services, but there is a limit to it and we will need to get things going again, but if we try to do so too soon it may cause a spike in infection cases (given that there are halfwitted deniers and naysayers who think autism comes from vaccines and all that!!!), I'd say wait 'til summer when the weather is more conducive to killing the virus off with environmental factors (higher temperatures, more daylight so more natural UV sterilising effects, drier so less places to linger, etc.)...

There are plenty of businesses going under which is sad, and of course people who have lost jobs from being laid off rather than put on furlough so they could apply for help elsewhere (E.G. in the UK the gov will pay up to 80% of wages for employees on furlough), but there are also multinational corporations holding out their hands because they're "losing profits", wanting government bail-outs while small family businesses get naff-all to sustain themselves, all the while the big corps have enough money to last if they actually do the smart thing and stop hoarding money...

LOTS of people walking their dogs!  I myself am fine.  My wife is retired and hangs out at home anyway.  I'm on a "covid-19 LOA" from work since I'm in the over 60 risk group.  I drive a city bus for King County Metro Transit (Seattle area).  What used to be rolling sardine cans of people have been reduced to just a handful of people each trip.  Fares have been suspended and passengers have to enter and exit through the rear door, plus the front area of the bus is barricaded so that there's no close contact with the driver.  They went from disinfecting the buses weekly to daily. 

Interesting coincidence.  I had applied for self quarantine as I repair portable radios for Metro Atlanta Rapid Transit and I'm aged as well.  I was just notified not to present myself for work and begin quarantine today.  I just hope I'm not already infected.

Quote from: twocvbloke on April 15, 2020, 10:07:37 PM
. . . but if we try to do so too soon it may cause a spike in infection cases, . . .

Isn't that the point of what was done? To reduce the out of control rate of new infections by social distancing and proper personal hygiene so as not to overwhelm the medical system that was initially unable, unprepared to deal with Covid patients and mitigate their novel symptoms? To give the medical community a month or so to learn, to come up with practices, procedures and therapeutic drugs that help mitigate symptoms, prevent deaths in those without underlying co-morbidity issues.

And with that accomplished in a month or so, the curve flattened, wasn't it always then the planned case to reopen the economy knowing the virus would continue to show up in new cases but to spread in a slower, controllable way. To let the economy come back to life before its total collapse knowing more people would be infected but at a rate similar to or less than the annual common flu and capable of being managed by the pre-mathematical-model-driven-panic hospital bed census.

Hasn't it always been the fact that the stay at home orders were temporary, one to two months at the most, and the virus would always be out there there, new cases would increase to some level, people would die from it and the cycle repeated each flu season until a natural herd immunity was developed or a 100% effective vaccine and/or cure was found.

Most of the US economy is made up of small business that has now been shut down completely, many have gone out of business and will never re-open. Isn't it time to get back to living our lives as we wish and want to, now fully knowing the risks, costs and benefits in doing so before we lose it all?

I hope that the reopening of the economy will not be hampered by interests that are not germane to the efficient and effective prosecution of the emergency.  That is the most benign way I can state my concerns at this time.  ;)

The Wisconsin governor has just extended his stay at home keep businesses shut down from April 24th to May 26th, the day after Memorial Day.

Quote from: TelePlay on April 16, 2020, 12:10:46 PM
Isn't it time to get back to living our lives as we wish and want to, ...

Shure it would be great if that worked. I'm afraid it won't, especially not for those who no longer will be with us then. The toll in the hotspot areas already has been immense, unheard of in any "seasonal flu". We have to bring those numbers down before starting over. Re-opening will have to be done in small steps, every time checking what the numbers will do.
It's a hard time world wide, life will go on after it, we have to be patient.

Shutdown has been extended until May, 3 here (Germany). The people stand behind it so far. Food and hardware stores are open, as well as farm supply and farms, construction sites, auto repair shops, craftsman's business and the like.

Well, apparently here in the UK, Lockdown has been extended for another three weeks, as there are still rising infections & deaths from the virus, mostly due to people not listening to the rules of what "essential activities" and "social distancing" are, I'm amazed they've not turned it into a hard lockdown so far given there has been talk of it due to the ignorance of people flouting the rules...

I am back to work next week for a 40 hour week.
I have some pre-approved  tasks to take care of.
The electricians in the shop are back for a pre-approved  outdoor lighting project.

We are required to wear mask, gloves and follow social distance guidelines  when inside any of  the buildings.
When working outside the mask is required when  you can't meet the distance guidelines.

It is undecided  if we are working the following week.

Jim

They expect Colorado to peak in the first week of May

went to get tested for the covid today.  Iwas guided through a driving range with periodic appearances from folks in space suits up to a portico with a white tent.  They put a swab up my nose and it felt like they were trying to poke my eye out from the back.  Now I am in quarantine.  I'll next replace the EGR valve in my truck so I can grub about for foodstuffs.

Do you have symptoms of it?
Well I'm hoping you don't have it, keep us up please.

I have had mild recurring symptoms Since the first week all this started.  Incidentally, my supervisor called me this evening and said I left at the right moment.  The first person in our shop came down with it today.

Did you see where it was Santa Clara CA, I think, that has a state university do wide spread testing and found that the population having it or had it and now have the anti-body was some 80% higher than thought? That increases the denominator and lowers the mortality rate by about half.

Bad news is that I think it spread to a lot more people than we think and many of those are asymptomatic or had a mild reaction and now have the anti-bodies.

Good news is the herd immunity may be larger than thought, and spring is just around the corner if it ever stops snowing up here (every day for the past week).

I was sick for 10 days with some of the symptoms but it started to clear up last Friday and Sunday morning I was back to normal, well, as some on this form will correct me to say, I'm back to abnormal . . .

That's one of the things about the virus, the fact in a lot of people, it can go unnoticed, being known as asymptomatic, so it's possible that a lot more people have had the virus but not even realised, and, worst of all, were spreading it unknowingly, hence the need for lockdown and isolating, as those vulnerable to the virus wouldn't fare so well...

Of course, having no symptoms or effects is ironically the ideal situation for the virus, as it is more beneficial for the virus to not kill the host in order to propagate, evolve and spread, after all, if it killed the host before it could move its' offspring onto a new host, it too would die, but that said, everybody is different, and those differences result in various outcomes...

Latest Wuhan virus tragedy, you can no longer buy cotton cloth by the yard in Walmart, it's all sold out . . .

Toilet paper is back in stock, shelves are full, but that won't work for making a mask.

I had to go pick up a script at the hospital yesterday and they gave me a re usable mask that goes behind the ears and it works great.
I had to wear one or they wouldn't let me in.
That was the doctors section, so hey I've seen people making masks out of paper towel on YouTube.
Won't last too long, but it's not toilet paper.
And yes I've been seeing that as well, people who were not infected are now getting the virus. So either chins wonderful responce is backfiring or they aren't keeping up on it anymore

Everyone has an old shirt or something else to sacrifice, but how about elastic tape?
If I looked really hard I might find the handkerchiefs that were given to me for my confirmation, they were obsolete even back then but might be useful now.

To report the outcome of my brewer's yeast for baking experiment:
I set half a drinking glass of flour, mixed with beer and a teaspoon of sugar for fermentation for 4 days. (The recipe I mentioned before used mashed potatoes, but flour was also recommended by another source.)
It definately fermented, and had the distinctive yeast smell. After 4 days I made a pizza dough with it and planned double the normal raising time. It raised, but by far not as much as usual. I cheated a little and added baking soda as a preventive measure  8)
Pizza turned out good, now I'm not sure wether it was the yeast experiment or the baking powder.

If you go on YouTube, it's everywhere how to make a mask you can use tee shirts and have a hole that you can loop behind your ears no need for sewing or elastic anything. There must be a few dozen posts there with all sorts of ideas.

Regarding masks. I made one from a doggy bandana and a worn out sunglasses strap form the $1.00 store. basically a shoelace with a slider.

Some folks use the fabric covered  elastic rubber bands for hair. You can get a pack at the $1 store.
Jim

Locally I find find really nice homemade cloth masks for free and up to $10.00.
Check nextdoor.com for free/cheap masks.

In the past week, I had two home made masks given to me. Gave one to my wife, so when she goes out a few local stores don't want you in the store unless your wearing a mask.

I bought masks from this firm,  it took about 3 days shipping from China.  I see the under $200 packages have sold out.

https://www.art3d.com/category/face-mask/

I went today to get the Covid-19 antibody test.  I was sick the first week everything started in the US and have always wondered If it was the coronavirus.  There were folks living in the sticks here that had it that early.

Quote from: 19and41 on April 21, 2020, 06:47:12 PM
I went today to get the Covid-19 antibody test.  I was sick the first week everything started in the US and have always wondered If it was the coronavirus...

Wishing you all the best.

Stay well.

Sorry I hadn't posted.  I was negative and my 14 day quarantine ended the day I got the result.  That was 7 days.  Now I'm back at work.  there are over 600 confirmed cases in my county, rising every few days.  The numbers of deceased are rising much slower.  I got my hair cut last friday and the barber couldn't see any advantage to wearing a mask even in such close proximity.   I couldn't blame her, unless it were a more advanced respirator mask on the order of a gas mask.  I'd hate to have that Hobson's choice of poverty or risking the illness.  I guess I do, in being exposed to people's personal equipment.  One person turning in his radio last evening had a family member get it.

This weeks visit to the supermarket was pretty much the same as previously. No queues. Shelves stocked. The car park was as full as it might have been prior to confinement.

For the first time there was a notice stating sanitised trolleys had been placed inside the foyer, and hand sanitiser was near the entrance/exit for shoppers to use.

Flour was in the larger 5kg bags. This is usually available anyway but this time there was more of it filling the shelves alongside the smaller 1kg bags. Also more 'own brand' products. Prices appear to have increased on some items.

This week there were 75ml bottles of hand sanitiser available.

What struck me the most was the general attitude of shoppers. No respect for the 1 metre distancing, chatting in the isles blocking the way, and moving just a step back to clear a space when it was noticed that someone needed to pass.

As for me personally, I'm with Clint!

 ;D

;D
Great quote. I will borrow that.

Quote from: Brinybay on May 03, 2020, 10:27:29 PM
As for me personally, I'm with Clint!

Same here, only difference is the shopping experiences...  ;D

well, its time for me to chime in.... got my stimulus money last Thursday, ordered a 7.0 CF chest freezer from Home Depot.... got a delivery date of 8-4-20.... so.... does anyone living in OHIO know whats up wth the Appliance factories? (at least I think Ohio is where they are) thanks to all these people PANICKING.... its caused major delays with the supply chain.... I tried to contact HD today but was on hold for over 10 minutes waiting.... no one ever answered.... I bet GE and the other brands have a order list 10 miles long.... and thats JUST for freezers..... if anyone knows more then me, please speak up....  I'm ready for a new freezer!

They are just as not available in Georgia.  I suspected they are being snapped up to store the hoarded food.

I visited Costco tonight, and selection was good except fresh meat was bare, save salmon, $120 tenderloin roasts, and halal ground lamb. No pork, no chicken, no other beef...

Frozen plain (no breading) chicken and beef were empty - plenty of panko-breaded chicken, though...

Hidden secret: check the halal frozen section - frozen chicken breasts and frozen ground beef in stock - and it tastes, cooks, etc. the same...

The veggie section seemed a little lean, but learned they moved some fruits and veggies to where meat normally is, and provided more room for social distancing...

J

Thought I'd share this song from my favourite singer Amy Macdonald, written during the pandemic and is a song for everyone about everyone in this situation...  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrrMORBZv9w

Here's my lockdown listening.
A nice upbeat foot stomping sound from a Canadian band.

The Dead South:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y4qmWF9TIM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9FzVhw8_bY

:) :) :) :)  I am SO getting myself a Banjo after lockdown!!!!

...One of this version would be a nice addition too.  ;D

Things are getting more normal here.
At work we wear masks and gloves  when inside the buildings.
Most folks wear masks when shopping.

They are talking reopening restaurants with limited seating and reservations only. The reservation list will be kept by the restaurant for 21 days for the purpose of contact tracing if needed. After 21 days, the list is deleted.

The biggest problem I have with Walmart's  1 way system is the red "DO NOT ENTER" squares.
The green squares with arrows are fine. When I get to the end of the aisle though, the red square written upside down confuses me.
My brain automatically reads the message, and I have to pause to see if the words are right-side up, or upside down.
It took me awhile to realize that I was reading the squares upside down.

Now that the CDC has changed its guidance earlier this month to emphasize the coronavirus does not spread easily on surfaces, the demand for hand sanitizer has been exceeded by the supply chain.

From their web site "The virus does not spread easily . . . from touching surfaces or objects."

I was doing my weekend grocery shopping at Walmart today and spotted a shelf full of 60 ounce bottles of hand sanitizer for $5.97 each (limit one) plus sales tax of $0.30. You can find 60 ounce refill bottles on eBay at about $35 each with free shipping. Got an 8 ounce bottle with a pump dispenser at Walmart last week for $1.97 plus tax. $6 for 60 ounces is what it cost before you could not find it on the shelves.

With everything else already on the shelves in my area, that must mean the hoarding based shortages have come to an end. Everything is opening up and the number of cases per test has been dropping daily (on average) for the past 6 weeks.

The stores here are still very difficult to get into and once there, it looks like the locusts have turned the places over.  Costco has it's house brand TP and bounty paper towels and kleenex in the small square boxes.  They even had the nearly antibacterial soap hidden off in a corner.  I got that and some towels.  I bought a car 3 weeks ago and the lines at the license place have been so long, I was just able to get the plates today.

My company is planning on our "reopening":
- only one way into the suite
- temperature checks at the start and end of the day
- masks in common areas
- social distancing
- Hand sanitizer on every desk (80% abv through a local distillery)
- and signs everywhere...

The one thing we're not easily finding are Sanitizing wipes - but we do have Clorox Cleanup in spray bottles everywhere.

It has been kind of nice having the office to myself for the last 10 weeks, though...

Jim

I'll be glad when the media shuts up, I'm really getting tired of hearing about this.... we know already! its sad, because some of our favorite eating places are not going to be able to reopen now, small conmpanies are trowing in the towel... and the ripple effect is going to be long lasting.... wonder what 2030 is going to look like?

Quote from: Babybearjs on May 23, 2020, 12:25:55 PM
I'll be glad when the media shuts up, . . .

. . . and that will probably be on 11/4/2020.

It's been a while, so here goes.  I was at discount goods outlet (Ollie's)  And as I was checking out there was a shedload of hand sanitizer.  It must've been some of the stuff I had heard distilleries were making as it was put up in liquor bottles and was going for 7.95/fifth.  They had bales of reusable Chinese face masks.  I guess Lysol spray is going to continue to be eaten by the giant black hole of hoard.  I can find bottles of white hand soap sporadically.  I bought a big bundle of giant Bounty paper towels a month or two ago when Costco had them.  I will be starting on it soon.  I think I'll be done with it late next year.  I bought a bale of scott BIG roll toilet paper.  Same again.  just starting on it.  It will go faster.  Probably next spring.  I have to admit it is a cheap price to pay for not having to remember to buy it.  It's just finding a place to put it.

around here they have rolled back to stage 3 for the bars.... wait and see... its going to be interesting to see where this whole thing goes this summer.... the summer fairs have been either trimmed back to bare minimum, or... cancelled altogehter. this year sure has been a crazy year.... if this keeps going, we are all going to have issues.   I can't even get my freezer I want because all the stores are sold out until further notice... My neighbor hasn't got her covid money and we tried to call the IRS so she could file over the phone and all the offices are closed and instead of have the calls forwarded to people at home, you just get an PSA over the phone.... crazy....

There's no fairs around here in central New Hampshire.
I saw masks by the each at the hardware store for 10 bucks each. A local " discount" store offing 50 pack of surgical masks for $40.  gallon size hand sanitizer for $10. It seems some are out to make a killing on this stuff. A local food store has hand made masks free, and there nice too not junk.
So I've picked up a couple to have in my truck, because if I've got my youningns with me I can give them one to wear if we need to go into a store.

Jen has been getting paper goods at Wal-Mart, still limiting qtys to buy but its better than three months ago when shelves were bare.

Everyone is wearing masks, I've even seen a few at the beach wearing them.
But hardly anyone is going to the beach. Even in the current heatwave.

Thankfully no shortages or queues here throughout this issue. Only item not on the shelves was anti-bac gel. Available now at around €8 (approximately $9) for 500ml (16.907 fl oz) which is the largest bottle I have seen. Face masks are available for sale, mostly the disposable surgical type at €5 (approx $5.63) for 10. Boxes of 50 disposable masks for €35 (approx $39.44), so cheaper to buy in packs of 10. Hand gel is in store entrances for shoppers to use upon entering. Some stores require a face mask to be worn. Our commune issued free washable face masks to each person in households (as did all communes).

Unfortunately, as restrictions have relaxed we have noticed folks out and about are not respecting social distancing recommendations, with both shoppers and staff blocking isles to chat or just generally not keeping a distance when passing. Even the youngsters have commented.

On a more positive side, as petrol prices here average €1.42 a litre ($1.60 for 0.264 gall), and we drive Range Rovers (thirsty), besides the money saving aspect of closed stores and practically no driving, it has been good for us all to spend more time together, plus several of those 'way down the to-do list' chores have been done.

Some other nice things have come out of this too - my phone workshop finally got built, we planted a small Vineyard, and made a new larger vegetable garden. We are purposely growing extra so surplus fruit and veg can be donated to the local food bank.

At work they have decided to have have grades K-5 attend school.
Grades 6-12 will mainly be online learning.
We had a couple of schools they were thinking of closing.
Now the plan is to keep them around and use them to help spread the kids around. They will also be putting K-5 in some of the middle and high schools.
These plans could be subject to change.

Locally things are pretty good, People are good about wearing masks at the grocery stores and my liqueur store. They don't at the $1 stores. The home improvement stores are 50/50 on masks. This is in my neighborhood.
According to a buddy, on the North end of town (mostly Republican ) , They don't wear masks. That is why my buddy shops in my neighborhood.

It is hard for me to comprehend why a face mask for social responsibility , has turned into a partisan issue. ( I know the main reason, It doesn't make it any easier to comprehend.
Jim

Here in Norway we have opened up partly, still restrictions, and we keep the distance.  The number of infected are rising again, but we still have only 8793 registered, 18 hospotalized, and a total of 249 dead.  not bad for 5.4 millions of people.

The digital school was extremely effective but I am totally worn out.   One month more, and I had broken...

Now it is summer holiday, 23 deg C in the water and I love to stay at our cabin.   Never seen the blueberries as early as this.

dsk

Here in South Florida they started opening up. Restaurants, gyms etc at 50% capacity. They removed the mask requirement. Yesterday they registered over 5500 new cases reported. I thought it was too early to open everything up, looks like I was right. I have not changed what I do. My wife and I both got tested 2 weeks ago and were negative. I plan on keeping it that way. The store shelves are mostly full, no big shortages any longer except alcohol & Lysol spray. We are now in hurricane season so we are getting our supplies & stock up for that. If they announce a storm we will be back to empty shelves in the stores.

Went to the service department at the local Ford megadealer and as I entered thought that I'd forgotten to put on my mask.  There wasn't a mask to be seen in there.  I guess if you can afford dealership prices, you are just naturally immune from the covid.

In our service dept you are required to wear a mask to enter the building. Dealership prices are not any higher than aftermarket shops. Not anymore. At one time they were exorbitant but we have to keep our prices competitive or we would be out of business. We shop pricing to keep par. A lot of times we are cheaper. Jiffy Lube oil change for example is much higher price than ours.

Here in Germany the situation seemed to be pretty well under control until the re-openings 2 weeks ago. Now the numbers rise again.
While upper and middle class people had been chiefly affected the first time, the new cases are often reported from places where people live or work close together under less than ideal circumstances. A major outbreak happened in a meat processing facility. This was foreseeable after earlier, smaller incidents. Yet it did happen.
@dsk, interesting that you report an efficient digital learning at school. It seems really to depend on how the schools are organized. I can see it was an exhausting time for the teachers who did a good job...
My 2 sons attend different schools and the experiences were pretty different, too. It's hard to keep the kids motivated anyway.

Quote from: HarrySmith on June 25, 2020, 09:58:48 AM
In our service dept you are required to wear a mask to enter the building. Dealership prices are not ant higher than aftermarket shops. Not anymore. At one time they were exorbitant but we have to keep our prices competitive or we would be out of business. We shop pricing to keep par. A lot of times we are cheaper. Jiffy lube oil change for example is much higher price than ours.

I will see. It was to set up an appointment for a diagnosis/estimate on my new car.  The last time I priced them, they took my breath away.  :D

Agreed, it's too eirly to drop the mask as it were. It's only asking for trouble.
I hate wearing a mask, but if it protects me and others then so be it.
But I'm amazed at those who won't wear one and stand in your face and talk like everything is fine. But that's the way it is, there's always someone who won't listen.

Things are being eased here in the UK, but I'm foreseeing a rise in cases, as people are just too ignorant of what is going on (especially those in power!!!), but some freedoms are being welcomed by some, being stuck indoors for three months with not a lot to do has driven a few people potty I'm sure, heck, even I'm going a touch nuts...  ;D

I flew from Washington, DC to Dallas, TX this last weekend to help my parents (81 & 79).

In DC folks are generally wearing masks, but in Dallas (northern suburbs), it was a case of maybe 1/3 of folks wearing a mask, unless the store required one (several stores did - grocery and athletic shoe store was where I went that required them). After arrival, my mom "scanned" me with a UV light (not sure if it did anything, but it made her happy...). We then went out to lunch, and my jaw dropped - no one wearing masks (not even servers or kitchen staff), no social distancing (a group of construction workers entered the restaurant before we did and kept trying to get us to join them in the lobby - we waited until they were seated). Needless to say, we didn't eat out again over the 5 day weekend... And then folks wonder why Dallas has a large spike in cases (and the governor put a brake on further opening up...)...

Compared to Dallas, the folks in DC are saints with respect to COVID-19...

Jim

Seeing in the news that a low grade fever is a warning sign of the virus' onset.  I wanted to get a thermometer.  it looked like the locusts picked all of them clean.  I looked on Ebay and could find a few digital thermometers, but I wanted one that I could rely on no mattr what.  In the new metal expansion thermometers, I could only find Chinese manufactured thermometers that more resembled a miniature candy thermometer and they were only calibrated in celsius.  If death rests it's hand on my shoulder I want a familiar measurement.   That left me looking for a vintage to antique thermometer.  I found a Becton and Dickinson red flash fever thermometer whose diploma says it was made in 1949.  It seems to work well.  One thing was common between all of them was I read a degree low.

Except for wearing masks on all my indoor errand running and work, Not much has changed for me in my day to day life.  I've had to work a regular schedule except for a 2 week absence for testing.  Fiscally, I can't complain too much, I recon I'm doing better than the folks who have to stay home and hope for sustenance.  A week ago, I went to Costco, and was met with a pair of 4 pallet size, 5 foot tall mass of hand sanitizer and house brand disinfecting wipes.  Further inside another big mass of liquid hand soap.  I got some of the wipes as they were in square containers that won't roll around all over the car and get popped open like the cylinders.  The parking lot at the bus/rail station at my location still has no more than 10 vehicles in the commuter lot on an average day.  I am fastidious in my washing/ sanitizing, but sometimes it seems like I'm doing it only for it's own sake.  I'll keep on doing it.  The threat of illness is a strong motivator.

I'm starting to see stuff on shelves on a regular basis.  Only thing I'm not seeing regularly is Lysol spray. Stopping at Target Saturday evening and Monday late afternoon had plenty of wipes on the shelves (both disinfecting - Clorox/Up and Up - and sanitizing - 75% alcohol), as well as enough hand sanitizer to sink a small boat...  Costco has been hit or miss with wipes or Lysol (Plenty of hand sanitizer, but a lot if it smells like crap, IMHO!)

Personally, I've been a "wash your hands regularly" guy, vs. a hand sanitizer guy... (But I have my stash, just in case).

Jim

With England (that is, the country that isn't Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland) being back in Lockdown as of the 5th, which I predicted back in June as that "Eat out to help out" scheme the government came out with backfired on them, things have just gotten tedious here, I've been quite quiet on here cos I've just had so little to do, granted I have plenty telephone projects to play with, but the boredom that has come with being told to stay at home has made wanting to do anything somewhat difficult, which has had knock-on effects with regards to my ongoing problems with depression and anxiety, this year's been pretty crap if I'm honest... :-\

As for shops' stocks of toilet roll, cleaners & hand sanitisers, it's pretty normal now, but with shops having "sanitation stations" for wiping down trolleys and baskets & having hand sanitiser available, personally I have my own hand sanitiser spray (off-the shelf stuff slightly enhanced with a nice essential oil and a bit extra isopropyl alcohol to blend that in cleanly) which I apply before entering the shop and on leaving, kind of seems moot when you consider that the products you handle may not be sterile, but, as tesco claims, every little helps!

Masks on hand too, both re-usable and disposable, just not that looney one I previously posted with me sporting a Mk6 British army helmet, social distancing may be a requirement, but that was a bit too scary really!!!  ;D

Last week, first time in a month, got a sandwich at the local shop, had to sign my name phone number and time I was there, first time ever, but now becoming a norm for my state, as govenor has mandated to keep track of who, when phone so if someone comes up sick, they can call me to tell me.

Went to the doctor yesterday to get a script, had to stand in front of this thing that looked like a tablet, took my temp and picture before I could get in to the hospital.
In my area everything is controlled by the hospital.
Questions like have I been out of state, not the country as has been, but food is plentiful as are people who stand in the middle of tight isles with shopping carts everyone seems to be wearing masks now, also a requirement now in food stores, but not in take out joints.
Some small convenience stores, strange but what ever.
Hang in there folks, it can only get...       

After the numbers went up worse than in spring, the German government issued a second lockdown. A "Lockdown Light" to be exact - We Germans just love English names for new things. Restaurants are open for take away only, hotels only for business guests and urgent family visits. Theaters are closed and football happens in empty arenas. Otherwise life is quite as usual, schools are open. Masks are mandatory in shops and busy places but have always been so since April, give or take.
Shops are fully re-stocked after short-term shortages of canned and dry food and the much-discussed paper products in March.
A vaccine will come, but I'm afraid we have to watch out for a while until that is through.
I ordered fine filtration masks when they were offered reasonably (80 € per 100) and encourage the kids to wear them at school. I use them in shops, too. After all what has been discussed by serious medics here, hand sanitizing is not overly helpful as breathing aerosols is the real problem.
Some folks start rioting against the official provisions, I really have no sympathy for these people.

And will the vaccine be safe? Will there be any long term issues, or nasty side effects??
I got a flu shot one year, and felt crappy for a year after. So I'm a bit leary

I try to get the flu vaccine each year.  I got it too late about 3 years ago and had already caught it before getting the vaccine.  It nearly killed me and I'm not exaggerating.  I get it now as soon as it's available.  I still have about a quart of hand sanitizer, but don't like to use it because of the slime it leaves on my hands.  I use 70% isopropyl alcohol on a portion of paper towel to sanitize my hands, then I can use lotion on them.

When I was a kid we had to get a vaccine, it left a mark size of a nickel. Hurt like hell, but there was no more polio.

I will trust the science....Doug

When I was a kid the Polio vaccine was administered on a spoon full of sugar. I must have been 4 or 5 years old when my mom dragged me to the official and mandatory appointment. I was an anti-vaccinationist back then :-)
Later at 13 or 14 the Pox vaccine was administered at school. I had changed my mind by that time but was sent away because I had an arm bandaged after a small injury. I should have returned next year but then vaccination had eradicated the pox and no more vaccinating was required.
Even if the Covid shot is not as effective as these classics it will push back the problem and give our immune system a fair chance to cope with it. I'll get it when it's available and recommended by my Doc.

Yea the flu can be extremely bad. And I know i need to think about that because im not grtting any younger. And hope it diesnt effect me adversly.

Yes I remember polio shot too. But thst was mandatory for going to school. And yes like most things I got over it.

I just hear stories about some of these shots recomended for kids and it freaks me out to think some of these caused other issues.
I wouldn't want any body to be adversly affected.

Last time I had a proper bout of flu was about 2002/03, went to sleep one day, woke up again wondering where three days went, not knowing if I had even been conscious at all through those three days to do things like eat, drink or use the facilities, flu is a bad thing to get, so always worth getting a flu jab if you're vulnerable or have health problems that could be affected by it...

As for the C19 vaccinations, Pfizer seem to have got one which they claimed is 90% effective, given the short amount of time they have had to develop one, that's pretty impressive, of course most vaccinations can take years to be developed and tested before they get approved, but this is an unprecedented case and the sooner we have a working vaccination, the better...

Quote from: 19and41 on November 10, 2020, 02:43:29 PMI still have about a quart of hand sanitizer, but don't like to use it because of the slime it leaves on my hands.  I use 70% isopropyl alcohol on a portion of paper towel to sanitize my hands, then I can use lotion on them.

I have the same issue with the gel sanitisers, particularly the ones they have at the sanitation stations in supermarkets, that's why my spray is the mildly enhanced 70% IPA (probably more % given I added a little extra 99% IPA) stuff, off the shelf it's 70% isopropyl alcohol with a bit of skin conditioner of some kind mixed in, but it's actually really easy to make your own, you just need to mix some 70% and a few drops of vegetable glycerine (a good skin conditioner) and add it to a spray bottle of some kind, spray on the hands, rub 'til it evaporates and you're set... :)

I use a 70% spray when dining out to do my hands after getting to the table.  One other thing I do after getting home is to wash in a mixture of 8 oz. of liquid soap and 1 tbsp. of lysol concentrate.  1/4 tsp. is enough to wash well.

I finally found some hand sanitizer that doesn't destroy the skin on my hands: Purell  Naturals, so I can start using that again ona regular basis.  Anything else ends up with red, itchy hands...

Jim

At work we have stabilized aqueous ozone  (O3). the machine is made by Tersano.

It is filtered tap water that has been saturated with ozone. Kills covid in 30 seconds. Stays full strength for 24 hours, and then reverts back  to tap water over 6 days .
They encourage us to take the spray bottle home each day for home use.
I usually call it snake oil or magic water.

It is the same principle as a hot tub or pool ozone generator.
I spray my hands before and after I enter a building. I also spray my masks.
It works very well removing grime from my  fire alarm panel enclosures. spray and wipe, and it is grime free. A lot better than many household cleaners and chemical free.

They make  home units with a 15 minute life span on the water, which is fine for home cleaning.
Jim

I have wondered if  it would work in place of Hydrogen Peroxide (O2) for telephone treatments

They just called E-learning for the school district where I work.
Last in-person schooling for 2020 is November 13, 2020.
We have 19 school sites that are already shut down till at least  then. That is about 1/3 of the student sites.

Students come back after the first of the year.

I will still be going in to work during the shut-down. It makes it a lot safer for us. It also makes it easier to get a lot of things done when  you don't have to work around class schedules.
Jim

Three weeks ago they shut down the high school for three days, because a student tested positive. Its reopens and no other issues yet.
Everyone wears a mask, even kids on the bus.
My kids are in grade school and either walk to school or get dropped off.
Nothing has turned up thus far, everyone is kept out if they dont need to be there.
I went to get my son a few weeks ago and called to tell thrm I was in the parking lot, they wouldnt let me in.

Lots of restrictions in Norway too, we try to keep the schools running, but at least 30% is internet based, that makes the good ones better, and ...   We have had perides of close down on the school where I am a teacher, but will open up Monday with 3/5 of the students at school.  As a result of all limitations Norway has had only 285 dead of corona in a population of 5.5 million. Lots of infected, but the health care system has hatleast held the death rate low.  Lots of people without a regular income, but to keep the crime rate down and the mental health up we use a lot of money to help them to not loose their homes... A pretty complicated set of solutions. 
The problems are rising and rising, so I will not be surprised if we get a complete lockdown. I guess we will not be allowed to visit family during Xmas this year. 

Having done some shopping today, it amazes me how many people can't understand how to wear a mask, they place it over their mouth, but under their nose, not realising the nostrils & nasal cavities are where the virus is most likely to be hiding if they have it, just makes me glad I'm being reclusive and staying away from these numpties, and it'll be those who keep on raising the numbers infected too whilst complaining the most about being put into more lockdowns...  ::)

I just hope the "90% success rate" vaccinations created so far will be rolled out soon, getting quite tired of the lack of care from people who just don't get that they're doing it wrong in trying to keep the virus at bay...

Were they wearing glasses? Because I know it drives me nuts to have my glasses fog up.
And with some of the masks I have I need to pull mine down slightly, not uncovering the nose, but close. It helps stop the fogging.

They weren't wearing glasses, so no excuse there for them to be incorrectly wearing their masks...

As someone who wears specs myself, I have issues with them steaming up too, which results in me fiddling with the mask and my glasses until I reach an equilibrium of being able to see and breathe, a nuisance to say the least, but I'd rather have that inconvenience than the virus itself!!!

One thing thst really bugs me is social distancing. And those who dont understand the concept..
Like those who refuse to get their carts out of the middle of the already narrow isles in some stores. Or they have to block the isle and chit chat with someone else, and the rest of the world has to stop while they catch up on the latest news. Have they forgot about the phone? And the convenience of using it when they are at home enjoying a cup of Joe..
I'm handicap and have hard enough time walking, but to be forced to stand and listen then chatter like chickens, while people on both sides are waiting for them to MOVE.
And in the check out line, they have to shove their cart into your rear end like your holding them up because your in line first..
This is hard on all of us, but some have to make it harder.
I've always been one to distance and be mindful of others around the store.

Oh well, somethings never change, even in a pandemic.

I think a lot of those types of people just don't believe the pandemic is a problem, simply because "they haven't got the virus", yet they're the most likely to be the spreaders, given that the virus tends to be asymptomatic during its' most infectious stage, which is what makes it the major problem that it is...

Over here it's not that much different, the amount of time I got held up in Aldi earlier today/yesterday while trying to get through the aisles as quickly as I could due to people dawdling about and chatting to others, it was pretty frustrating, and as a result others were held up too maintaining a good distance from those blockages, but in turn becoming a blockage themselves, just glad I managed to keep my time in there to under 15 minutes as I knew exactly what I wanted and where it was, could have been quicker though...

 Yes, I tend to agree, because my wife just told me a local church, 18 people have tested positive because they chose to hold indoor service instead of not, dont know if they were wearing masks or what.
I believe a lot are still very resistant to proper protection procedures.

We have equal problems here, but in the last weak the police started to charge those who violated the rules with a pretty heavy fee.
First time violation: about $2200   You are not allowed to risk others health.

dsk

Well now my 10 year old is remote learning only, a second case has been reported in his school.
It seems this summer's lets get out and have fun has opened the door for many new infections. He's already been tested once negative thankfully. But scary none the less.

My state has finally opened up the requirements to get the vaccine to people 55 and older so I made an appointment to get the first dose on Wednesday.  Hope everything goes allright.  these days I can get anything except Lysol Spray.  I an about halfway through the package of toilet paper I bought last April.  I am 1/3 of the way through the paper towel bale I got in May at Costco.  I guess this virus saved me a lot on those items.  Now I am also looking for the $1400.00 simulus check to magically appear in my bank account.  My roof is beginning to look a bit tatty and it will help on that.

I got my second shot on Wednesday. Minor side effects on the second shot.
After the first shot I threw up 15 hours later,  and  slept for 2 days.
I also had a headache and chills.
For most people the 2nd shot is worse.
Jim

I guess that will be fun, I have to work that afternoon.

Well as for me, I'm staying home as much as possible. Always masked when I go out haven't even got a cold, so far. But my 10 year old is home from school because of cold symptoms low grade fever coughing sneezing.
If it keeps up he'll be going for a covid test before he heads back to school.

I have yet to get the shots, as I have a high sensitivity to that type of thing. Got a flue shot once years ago, felt lousy for months after.

So far we've been able to get the supplies we need at Wal-Mart, or other stores.

Nobody we know has been diagnosed with covid. But we don't get out much because of it either.

Hope anyone who gets the shots has excellent luck with them. Stay safe people.

I've already had my flu shot this year.   No noticeable effects.  Everyone's different, I guess.  3 years ago, I got the shot too late and got the flu anyway.  It nearly killed me.

The year I got the flu shot, I got it twice.
I said that was a waste of time, never again.
It really ducks to get the flue mis spelling on purpose.

Yea figures I almost boast about not getting a cold..
Got my 10 year olds cold.
Two weeks later in feeling better but still get run down quickly a few days for him and he's doing hand springs.
Always the way.

Community?  Judging from the posts on Next Door, everybody's at each other's throats!  (That is, when they're not complaining about dog poop!)

As for me and mine, my wife and I are getting our second dose on the 27th.

Complaining? I haven't seen any complaint posts as of late. But it is human nature for some to complain.
Yes is not good, and I'm sure a few might be going through other issues that relate to the virus.
But I think over all everyone has been doing pretty well lately here anyway.

Went to the barber Saturday, everyone was talking about either where they got their vaccine, what kind they got, or wishing they could get one.  (It's 55 and over here.)

I went to Costco last Saturday and walked up the cleaning products and there it was: Lysol spray,a 3 pack for $14.  Between that and getting my covid shots, It is feeling like the war is over.

Before I left home (on vacation in Turkey and Egypt), Costco was again normal: Lysol spray, Clorox wipes, rubbing alcohol, latex gloves (all sizes), toilet paper and paper towels.

Turkey has been interesting: the country is in a lockdown through Sunday, but foreign  tourists are permitted to travel and visit sites, museums, etc. (at least what's open). Grocery stores are open 10-5 (except Sunday), few other stores are open.  You can't buy alcohol (wink, wink), not anything not "essential".  Stores have tape across the items you can't buy. Today (first day of Eid after Ramadan) is a holiday and very little is open.   At times, it feels like my travel buddy and I are the only two people in a post-apocalyptic world...

We'll see what Egypt is like next week...

Jim

France:

Much currently remains closed including restaurants, events, public venues.
Nightly curfew of 7pm.
Tape in stores (or plastic sheeting) to cover none essential goods. However, none essential goods can be ordered online and collected in some stores as a 'click and collect' purchase.

Bizarrely, to me anyhow - trainers, shoes, clothing (inc children's items and undergarments) appear to be not considered essential. Shoppers can however purchase football themed bunting.  :o
And here we were, wondering how to manage without it.....   ::)

One other thing, There is a local store chain that specializes in excess inventories that has thousands of liquor bottles of ethyl alcohol With a denaturing agent added for sanitizing hands.  Wonder how fast the stuff would sell had it not been doctored?

Sanitizing hands and objects has proven inefficient, the virus goes through the air directly from human to human. You still can use the denatured alcohol as fuel or for cleaning telephones.
"Here" (Germany) numbers weren't as high as in a couple of other countries but increased alarmingly though. They seem to drop slowly the last couple of days. Hopefully the vaccination campaign which is in full swing now will address the issue soon.
Supermarkets and drugstores are open, as well as gardening stores and the agricultural supply business. They usually sell their normal range of goods. No tapes.
I'm envious when I read about telephone shows starting over in America - no way to even think of a similar event "here".
Tomorrow morning I will collect a cabinet for my son's room from IKEA. I've learned from this thread that the term "click and collect" is also used internationally and is not one of those false anglicisms that run rampant in the German language :-)

No more face diapers in my area.

As soon as Walmart/Sam's dropped the requirement, all other grocery stores did it as well.

Same thing for hardware/home improvement stores, gas station convenience stores, bars and restaurants.

People can still wear them if they want to but seems only 5% or so are still doing so.

Lol, Face diapers. That's a new way to describe a mask.
I went in a bank just before the virus, and a sign said no hats dark glasses or masks permitted.
I'm guessing they removed that sign, or at least reworded it.

Now that I'm back in the US, we're practically in pre-pandemic mode here in DC.  I'm not sure about restaurant/bar capacities, but most restrictions have been lifted - even my rugby team can now do contact practice.  The local vaccinated percentage is over 50%, and cases are dropping.

Egypt seemed like business as usual - very few masks, restaurants were open, traffic was insane.

Now the biggest concern is cicada carcasses...

Jim