Hi there. I have a WE D1 phone that was manufactured in 1936 (IV 36). The dial is marked 4H, but the switch has the W terminal on the opposite side from the pictures I find and looks like what I see on 5H dials. Also, it has a 150B faceplate dated I 47 which seems to be what is on a 5H dial. Do I have something that someone pieced together, or is it possible this is an original 4H dial that was added to the phone at a later date?
The contact springs on the dial have been updated at the WE repair shop in order to have bifurcated ("twin") contacts for the receiver.
The cords are also newer than 1936--see dates on the cord restraints. In 1936, the cords would have had brown fabric covering.
Also, one of the M1E jumpers has been replaced. It's possible that this phone previously had a 61-type filter, and that when it was removed, it was necessary to add a new jumper in its place.
Phones were purchased by the Bell operating companies from Western Electric, then leased to customers. When a phone was disconnected, it was shipped back to the Western Electric Distributing House. At that time, it was either remanufactured, parted out, or junked. Customers rarely got "new phones" even though they almost always asked for new ones.
That might be a 1951 date on the D4AN mounting cord. The dial is older than 1936, because it is painted black rather than parkerized.
Often, 202s and even 302s got dials that were converted from 2-type to 4-type. The old externally mounted finger stop was replaced with an internally mounted one so that the dial could be used on phones that had recessed dials (D1 202s, 302s). If they were originally 2A dials (from desk stand, wall sets, pay phones), then it was also necessary to swap out the contact springs, since there is no "R" terminal on a 2A dial. The old "W" to the right of BB was marked out and "R" was stamped in vermilion ink.
2H dials (from B1s and C1s) already had the correct spring pileup. However, they might also have been upgraded with the "twin" contacts like your dial has.
The main reason I am asking to make sure it's really a 4H, is because it is missing the finger wheel, nut, and washer. Looking at Oldphoneworks.com, they list a different wheel for a 4H versus a 5H and I wanted to make sure I get the right one. Other sources such as on eBay have sellers saying their wheel will fit 2, 4, or 5's so not really sure what the difference is. Looking at pictures, I see no difference until the 6, where the oblong mounting hole appears to be rotated about 90 degrees.
On the cords - the cord to the subset is labeled "5-6 D4AN I 51". The receiver cord "52 H3AG". Handset is E1 with F1 transmitter element (12/42) and receiver is magnet/diaphragm type ink stamped "IV 31" inside the compartment. I need to figure out how to unscrew the transmitter cup to change the cord without damaging anything.
Quote from: tekuhn on October 18, 2016, 01:24:39 PM
The main reason I am asking to make sure it's really a 4H, is because it is missing the finger wheel, nut, and washer. Looking at Oldphoneworks.com, they list a different wheel for a 4H versus a 5H and I wanted to make sure I get the right one. Other sources such as on eBay have sellers saying their wheel will fit 2, 4, or 5's so not really sure what the difference is. Looking at pictures, I see no difference until the 6, where the oblong mounting hole appears to be rotated about 90 degrees.
Same black finger wheel fits 2A, 2H, 4H and 5H dials. Of course, older ones are brass, then steel, then aluminum, but they are all interchangeable.
6A, 7A and 7D use the same finger wheel, but, as you pointed out, have a larger mounting hole which is also rotated 90 degrees.
Great information (as always)! Perhaps the one listed as 4H is brass which might explain the higher price. Since I have a 1947 faceplate, it's logical to assume the wheel could have been changed out as well, so I have no problem using steel or aluminum.
$14.95 for aluminum, or $34.95 for brasss finger wheel? + Postage? I think you can do better than that! That's about the right price for a complete 5H or 4H dial.
Exactly. I have been watching dialer auctions and have definitely seen complete dialers for $15-$20.
What kind of dial is this on 1960s era WE "butt sets"? While having seen these only on ebay photographs it appears that one needs a tool to dial. Was there some reason for not using a conventional finger wheel? As in the linesman being able to just use a tool instead of removing his work gloves? Some of these hard black rubber butt sets instead have #6 dials with conventional aluminum finger wheels and newer models came out with plastic finger wheels. Can anyone shed some light on the logic of this design?
No fingerwheel to bend when dropped off a pole
The dial style is called a "pin dial". They are easy to dial ( no a special tool needed) . I have been told they are rated for a 200' drop.
JMO,
Jim S.
The test set is a type 1011B, and the dial I believe is a type 103A. The dials were known as "pencil dials", as they could be dialed with pretty much any pointed object, including pencils.
Jeff Lamb
Or your fingernails on the pin. Pretty easy after a little practice.
They were coveted by the PBX repair guys because of their small size. The downtown guys didn't have vehicles so they walked between customers in their area. Thus a smaller butt set left more room for other items in their repair kit.
Terry
Here is a 103A dial in new condition with box.
Wow, no complicated spring pile-ups in that dial!
I like the noise these dials make.
Terry
Quote from: AE_Collector on February 18, 2017, 12:05:07 PM
Wow, no complicated spring pile-ups in that dial!
The 1011B handset was a wonder in complexity !
I have two of these 103A dials, and they both run slow. Has anyone else run into this? Any hints on disassembly or getting it to run at speed? I'm wondering if the drive spring wears out?
I also have the matching 1011B butt set. The rubber casing seems to be exuding an oily sheen...any suggestions for remedying this, or is it the material degrading and not something that can be arrested or remedied?
Quote from: ka1axy on September 23, 2021, 11:55:48 AM
I have two of these 103A dials, and they both run slow. Has anyone else run into this? Any hints on disassembly or getting it to run at speed? I'm wondering if the drive spring wears out?
I also have the matching 1011B butt set. The rubber casing seems to be exuding an oily sheen...any suggestions for remedying this, or is it the material degrading and not something that can be arrested or remedied?
Steve H for dials. Someone will post his contact info.
My guess on the oily sheen is that someone oiled it. Clean it with dawn dish soap and water.
There are some threads regarding protecting rubber once you have cleaned it.
Just my opinions,
Good Luck,
Jim
Quote from: Jim Stettler on September 23, 2021, 12:09:44 PM
Steve H for dials. Someone will post his contact info.
My guess on the oily sheen is that someone oiled it. Clean it with dawn dish soap and water.
There are some threads regarding protecting rubber once you have cleaned it.
Just my opinions,
Good Luck,
Jim
jydsk@tds.net
Quote from: Jim Stettler on September 23, 2021, 12:09:44 PM
Steve H for dials. Someone will post his contact info....
Steve's website:
http://www.navysalvage.com/
:)
Update: SteveH adjusted my dial, which is now reinstalled in its 1011B test set, and works like a champ. I have sent him a second (spare) 103A for the same treatment. He was able to adjust the governor and the mark/space ratio and the dial now works (not all numbers were being recognised & it was noticeably slow). Apparently, these dials get slower as they age (don't we all!)
Thanks for the advice. Now, here's some of my own: I accidentally over-stretched the 1011B housing and split off one side of the dial housing. Oops! I thought it was trash, but decided to try some Gorilla Glue on it. It worked! The only thing you need to remember is that Gorilla Glue needs a film of moisture to work, so after cleaning both surfaces, give them a misting, then shake most of it off, then apply gle and clamp overnight. You can see the repaired break between 6 & 7 in the attached photo.