Now, here is another subject I believe is important for collectors. I have no experience in this field. If you have any, please post your results & technique. Also, post pics if you can.
I ahve alot to say on this subject. I can't respond in detail right now, but will shortly.
Mostly on repair and polishing of bakelite.
BDM;
You know you've opened a can of worms, that no two are likely to agree on.
Before this thread goes too far, let's agree to disagree, without flames....
What I write may not be your experience. I can only relay what I've found works for me.
Can we all keep that in mind as we proceed... ??? ???
D/P
Dan, I agree. But, I want to see post about results that have worked. This avoids flame wars. If you rub out the plastic using your left hand and a quarter on your head, that's fine. If it's produced good repeatable results, post it!
Here is the model 302 that I wrote about earlier. The phone came to me with the rear cradle ears broken and long gone. The woman that owns the phone did not want a replacement case, she wanted THIS case because it was the one her parents had when she was young. When she sent me the phone she simply wanted it cleaned, polished and wired to work. She also wanted replacement cords. After I refurbished the case, gluing cracks on both corners and sanding them until they disappeared my friend Mark Scola told me that he would be able to recreate the cradle ears if the woman was interested. His price for doing this would be $35 for each ear. I had already detailed the phone as I never thought the owner would spring for that amount. I was surprised to learn that she wanted to spend the additional $70 even though she was told they would not be perfect and there may be a visible line between old plastic and the repair.
Yesterday we spent four hours building the rough ears for this phone. I watched and took photos while Mark did his work. Again, later I will put together a web album with details but for now I'll just show a couple of photos of what it looked like to begin with and what it looks like now. I was left with the rough-in, if you will. I will have to do some sanding and shaping but it has been fitted with the E1 handset and it rests nicely there. This was done from an eye-ball perspective. I mean if one were to get a pair of dial calipers and measure an existing 302 and recreate the ears that way they may or may not look more real. I think he did a pretty good job of roughing them in to the point they are now. In a week or so I will get back to the phone and do the finish job again. My original job was completely scratched so I have to start over on it one more time. I spent a good deal of time working on that case before the decision was made to fabricate the ears.
By the way, Mark says when sanded and buffed they should appear as black as the original plastic.
Here are the photos:
That is impressive! I'm amazed, as you are Dennis, that she would want to pay for that level of repair... but what a repair! I can't wait to see it after the final polishing. You know, if a person can repair broken ears and mend cracked corners, then that gives hope for just about any 302 out there. All it takes is skill and many hours of work.... many, many hours.... hours of excruciating, back-breaking work... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
That looks great! What is that, bondo, or what? Does it come in other colors?
Dennis;
That's an excellent repair job, and I'm not surprised that the lady sprung for the repairs, you can't replace that sentimentality.
I'm a frim believer in tha idea that, ANYTHING can be repaired, with time, and knowing the original design, and having the proper methods and materials to do the job correctly.
BTW, is that done with JB Weld, The color looks the same as JB Weld ? Perhaps the strongest epoxy repair medium you can get.
D/P
Seriously Dennis, where can we get the repair material that your friend Mark Scola used ???
I just started my first phone refurbishing job, a standard 302, having been inspired by Dan's fine step by step 302 refurbishing job/thread. I bought this phone for ten bucks on Ebay, as it has a small chip off the housing base and an open crack in the corner. So I thought it would be a good phone to start with for a total beginner like me.
Well, I opened it up this morning and lo and behold, it is an all matching dates, 2-47, and all the original parts are there, seemingly in good condition. :o Now I have sort of a dilemma. I was going to just replace the housing, but since it's the original, I want to try to replace the chip, either with Mark's method or by carefully carving and gluing in a replacement chip. Any ideas most welcome.
If anyone has any ideas of how to fix the open crack in the corner, I'm all ears. It just needs the best glue for the tectite (plastic). Superglue?
Finally, the bakelite handset is covered all over with consistent micro-pitting, so I'm not getting the best shine with Novus 2. Should I go to Novus 3? Or first very fine sandpaper, say 600 grit?
Thanks in advance, :) -Matt
Matt,
I'll have to ask Mark. He gets the hardener from a nail salon but it requires a beauticians license to purchase. He has a friend that gets it for him. The hardner is mixed with a powder and hardens very quickly. The odor is intense and must e used with ventilation. The hardener is very expensive...like $25 for a very small bottle.
When I repair a corner crack I simply use Super Glue or Krazy glue. I pull apart the crack and bathe the crack on the broken edge as well as inside and outside of the case. I hold the glued part together firmly while it dries then use a heavy rubber band to hold pressure on the case over night. It's best when the glue is dripping out of the crack making a good bond. Later I sand the repaired area with a progression of wet sand paper, beginning with 800 grit, then 1,000, 2,000. If you can find finer sandpaper above 2k then that's great too. Sand in one direction for a certain grit, like up and down for 800, then back and forth for the 1,000. If you see any of the up and down marks left after using 1,000 then use the 1,000 again and again until no 800 marks are left. Continue in this manner. With good sanding the crack will often--not always disappear. Then use Novus2 to polish. Be careful when sanding not to put too much pressure on the crack or it will pop again. Also I use a dremmel tool to file down some of the plastic on the inside to prevent further cracking. Shrinkage of the plastic case is often what causes the crack in the first place. It shrinks around the metal base resulting in a crack.
As far as sanding Bakelite, one must be careful. Sanding can eliminate the thin layer of plastic and a gloss shine will never return. If you must sand the Bakelite us something finer than 600. Nothing lower than 1,000. Better yet use 2,000 and lightly sand off the imperfection. Rubbing in more polish with a buffer, like a hand held Ryobi is best. The friction of the moving pad against the Bakelite along with the polish really removes a lot of dirt.
Those are just my tips. Everyone has their own method and if you do it enough you will develop your own techniques.
Thanks Dennis,
The hardener doesn't sound practical in my case for a little chip. I think I'll just leave the honest little chip there. It looks like the phone was dropped which resulted in the chip, the crack, and a bent finger stop. I'll use super or krazy glue on the crack and very fine sanding and polishing. This all makes sense to me, as well as being very careful with the thin outer layer of the bakelite on the handset.
Like I said, this phone was supposed to just be my beginning "practice" phone, because I thought I was getting damaged goods, and maybe she'd end up just for parts, but finding her with all matching dates, I'm just going slow and careful with lot's of TLC. Funny, for a ten dollar phone, all she really needs is a dial cleaning and lubing, a new cord, the crack repair and a good cleaning and polishing.
She sure looked ugly on Ebay, but now I'm in love... ;) :D Thanks guys, -Matt
As a follow-up to my earlier posting about the broken cradle ears, I thought I would post a couple of photos of the finished product and supply you the link to a web album I created showing the refurbishing process of the entire phone---for those interested.
The Picasa web album can be viewed here:
http://tinyurl.com/3zpfpt
The link to my latest posting about this phone can be seen here:
http://www.vintagerotaryphones.com/?page_id=89
For some reason Internet Explorer users may find that you have to scroll down the page to see the posting. Hopefully that problem will be corrected soon.
Here are a couple of pictures in the mean time.
Dennis
I have to say I'm floored by that job, Dennis. It's nothing short of miraculous.
I'm sure the owner is going to be over the moon when it arrives.
Thank you. I'm sure she will be happy as well. I hate to send it back now---but off into the world it goes. :)
Quote from: Dennis Markham on November 11, 2008, 07:59:26 AM
Thank you. I'm sure she will be happy as well. I hate to send it back now---but off into the world it goes. :)
Just wondering Dennis if you ever heard back from the "broken ears" 302 lady?
It's funny Jim, she was all excited before she took delivery (based upon my photos) but I didn't hear from her until just the other day when I e-mailed her to ask if all was well with the phone. She said she was very happy with her phone and she uses it from time to time but she's been busy with the holidays. She said they will use it more often when things settle down. Like most, she's happy with the ring. I was very happy with the way that phone turned out considering the amount of work that went into building those "ears".
Quote from: Dennis Markham on November 02, 2008, 10:29:25 PM
As far as sanding Bakelite, one must be careful. Sanding can eliminate the thin layer of plastic and a gloss shine will never return. If you must sand the Bakelite us something finer than 600. Nothing lower than 1,000. Better yet use 2,000 and lightly sand off the imperfection. Rubbing in more polish with a buffer, like a hand held Ryobi is best. The friction of the moving pad against the Bakelite along with the polish really removes a lot of dirt.
Dennis (and all others who have a hand held Ryobi)
I am trying to determine if my hand held Ryobi buffer is behaving properly
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100041947 (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100041947)
Initially is spins at a rapid rate but after I make contact with the surface the rate of spinning decreases and any type of pressure causes the spin rate to go down to near zero (although I can tell it is still doing it orbital action thing). In certain situations the spinning of the polishing head will actually go in the oposite direction of the inital spining.
Does this seem correct. Is this buffer more of an orbital polisher than a spinning polisher. I am just trying to determine if this is proper behaviour or if I need to return mine because it is defective.
Thanks.
sounds like it's working fine to me. use a light touch, and it might work a bit better.
My Ryobi doesn't slow down a bit during use. I'm on my second one only because the foam pad on the first one finally disintegrated from use. It still spins as fast as usual. That pad appears to be a replaceable but for $20 I figured it was just cheaper to get a new one. I also trimmed up some of the plastic housing....to give more room between the moving pad and the plastic shroud. So I wouldn't damage the phone by bumping it into the phone.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on November 02, 2008, 10:29:25 PM
Matt,
I'll have to ask Mark. He gets the hardener from a nail salon but it requires a beauticians license to purchase. He has a friend that gets it for him. The hardner is mixed with a powder and hardens very quickly. The odor is intense and must e used with ventilation. The hardener is very expensive...like $25 for a very small bottle.
When I repair a corner crack I simply use Super Glue or Krazy glue. I pull apart the crack and bathe the crack on the broken edge as well as inside and outside of the case. I hold the glued part together firmly while it dries then use a heavy rubber band to hold pressure on the case over night. It's best when the glue is dripping out of the crack making a good bond. Later I sand the repaired area with a progression of wet sand paper, beginning with 800 grit, then 1,000, 2,000. If you can find finer sandpaper above 2k then that's great too. Sand in one direction for a certain grit, like up and down for 800, then back and forth for the 1,000. If you see any of the up and down marks left after using 1,000 then use the 1,000 again and again until no 800 marks are left. Continue in this manner. With good sanding the crack will often--not always disappear. Then use Novus2 to polish. Be careful when sanding not to put too much pressure on the crack or it will pop again. Also I use a dremmel tool to file down some of the plastic on the inside to prevent further cracking. Shrinkage of the plastic case is often what causes the crack in the first place. It shrinks around the metal base resulting in a crack.
As far as sanding Bakelite, one must be careful. Sanding can eliminate the thin layer of plastic and a gloss shine will never return. If you must sand the Bakelite us something finer than 600. Nothing lower than 1,000. Better yet use 2,000 and lightly sand off the imperfection. Rubbing in more polish with a buffer, like a hand held Ryobi is best. The friction of the moving pad against the Bakelite along with the polish really removes a lot of dirt.
Those are just my tips. Everyone has their own method and if you do it enough you will develop your own techniques.
Dennis, I know this is an old thread, but I was trying to minimize threads. Will this method work on a soft tenite 500 housing too? My 500 has a corner crack on it.
Thanks!
Dan, that highlighted quote talks about two different methods, the nail hardener mixed with a powder that can be used to fill gaps. It is really more for larger holes or missing plastic.
The Crazy Glue, Super Glue method works pretty well for repairing a crack but may not make it disappear. The example I gave in this paragraph was on soft plastic.
Thanks, I will try this method!
Hi All;
Which or would either of these repairs work on my E1 Mouthpiece ??? I have never tried anything like this and as I am all thumbs, I am debating whether I should try ???? I am mainly concerned about the Crack on the one side..
THANK YOU Marty