You can't polish bakelite. If it is faded, there is nothing you can do except paint or paste wax. Why? Because the top layer of bakelite is a glaze that is there as part of the manufacturing process. Once worn through, from use. or oils from the skin, your into the base layer which is rough, and motled looking.
If your bakelite still has the shinny top glaze, whatever you do, do it sparingly, so as to not rub through the glaze.
I have had reasonably good results using dried out black Kiwi shoe polish and a brush with my rotary tool. I have a can of shoe polish which was left open way back and dried out so that it is solid chunks of wax. I rub a bit of small amount of the polish onto the bakelite and spread it with the rotary tool until it is so thinly spread that rubbing it with my finger does not smudge it. Afterward, I give the bakelite a buffing with a cotton cloth. The results have been much better than I expected. It even worked well on handset grips which are frequently handled. The rotary brush must be rubbing small amounts of wax into the pores of the bakelite. This isn't a perfect solution, but it beats throwing away phones and handsets.
Larry
Quote from: trainman on April 29, 2011, 10:26:51 AM
You can't polish bakelite. If it is faded, there is nothing you can do except paint or paste wax. Why? Because the top layer of bakelite is a glaze that is there as part of the manufacturing process. Once worn through, from use. or oils from the skin, your into the base layer which is rough, and motled looking.
If your bakelite still has the shinny top glaze, whatever you do, do it sparingly, so as to not rub through the glaze.
I disagree. I have never found layers on the bakelite and I have sanded some handsets down to remove or hide imperfections. I have also done work on many bakelite shells as well, no layers. Fine steel wool and Avon skin so soft will bring them back to life. I have heard for years people say there are layers in bakelite. I have never painted a bakelite piece in 30 years of collecting telephones. ....Doug
Hey Doug,
Is that the hand cream?
Tom
Quote from: Tom B on April 29, 2011, 02:07:18 PM
Hey Doug,
Is that the hand cream?
Tom
Tom....bath oil, works like a champ....Doug
I have some older Elektrisk Bureau and Erickson bakelite phones. The finish is not very shiny, but my parents used some furniture polish and kept them quite nice.
Then I got some Siemens telephones, looks like the has some painted finish, shines as * :D Just wiped with a moist clothe. Just shining.
Got some different others not that shiny, shoe polish to get them black, and car wax to keep them.
Works for me.
dsk
Bakelite is very resilient and reacts well to fine steel wool. Steel wool removes the layers of age, dullness, grime and dirt. When finished with the steel wool, the bakelite will have a shine. It has a glow the the friction causes, almost a depth to it. Below are the before and after of my Mahogany North and Green North. Avon SSS bath oil is the finishing touch. ....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on April 30, 2011, 08:57:07 PM
Bakelite is very resilient and reacts well to fine steel wool. Steel wool removes the layers of age, dullness, grime and dirt. When finished with the steel wool, the bakelite will have a shine. It has a glow the the friction causes, almost a depth to it. Below are the before and after of my Mahogany North and Green North. Avon SSS bath oil is the finishing touch. ....Doug
Doug,
Does the SSS dry, or does it remain oily? Or do you buff it out to where the SSS is practically nonexistent on the bakelite?
Ed
Quote from: trainman on April 29, 2011, 10:26:51 AM
You can't polish bakelite. If it is faded, there is nothing you can do except paint or paste wax. Why? Because the top layer of bakelite is a glaze that is there as part of the manufacturing process. Once worn through, from use. or oils from the skin, your into the base layer which is rough, and motled looking.
If your bakelite still has the shinny top glaze, whatever you do, do it sparingly, so as to not rub through the glaze.
Black shoe polish is an old stand by.
It does a good job and shows well.
Jim
Quote from: Ed D on May 01, 2011, 10:00:34 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on April 30, 2011, 08:57:07 PM
Bakelite is very resilient and reacts well to fine steel wool. Steel wool removes the layers of age, dullness, grime and dirt. When finished with the steel wool, the bakelite will have a shine. It has a glow the the friction causes, almost a depth to it. Below are the before and after of my Mahogany North and Green North. Avon SSS bath oil is the finishing touch. ....Doug
Doug,
Does the SSS dry, or does it remain oily? Or do you buff it out to where the SSS is practically nonexistent on the bakelite?
Ed
Ed....I leave it on a few days and wipe of the excess. It does dry. Some areas might need more, the drier the bakelite, the more it will suck it in....Doug
Can you go through the steel wool process? Exactly what steel wool do you use? And sanding techniques?
The photos are quite amazing!
Quote from: Kevin Lane on May 02, 2011, 09:14:02 PM
Can you go through the steel wool process? Exactly what steel wool do you use? And sanding techniques?
The photos are quite amazing!
It's fine steel wool, 0000. I've been trying the Doug Rose method for the first time, but I don't think I did it right, I only left the SSS on overnight and I didn't get the results Doug did. I too, need more coaching on the steel wool part, how long? I sanded it for about 15 minutes. I'm using it on the handset for my latest phone, the 440 with an F1 handset.
Man, I love that emerald green phone! Gotta have one!
Quote from: Brinybay on May 02, 2011, 04:12:18 AM
Quote from: Tom B on April 29, 2011, 02:07:18 PM
Hey Doug,
Is that the hand cream?
Tom
This stuff:
If you don't know your local Avon Rep., ask your XYL or order online:
In Canada: http://www.avon.ca/1/1/143-skin-so-soft-original-bath-oil-500-ml.html
In the US: http://shop.avon.com/shop/product.aspx?src_page=product_list.aspx&level1_id=0&level2_id=0&pdept_id=0&dept_id=0&pf_id=7460
500 ml. US price - 13.00, CDN - 9.99 (Special)
Ordered a couple of bottles this evening... Bakelite will feel softer and moisturized! ::)
Now, being a curious soul, I looked up the ingredients list given on the Canadian site. SSS is made of the following compounds:
1) Mineral Oil
2) Isopropyl palmitate is a palm oil based emollient, moisturizer, thickening agent, and anti-static
3) Dicaoryl Adipate is classifed as: Emollient, Film forming, Plasticizer
4) Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate used as an emulsifying, wetting, and dispersing agent, as a pesticide
5) Butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), also known as butylhydroxytoluene, is a lipophilic (fat-soluble) organic compound that is primarily used as an antioxidant food additive (E number E321) as well as an antioxidant additive
6) Carrot seed oil has a formative effect on the epidermal skin cells, stimulating cell growth and is therefore an excellent ingredient to use in products aimed to rejuvenate tired, aged, dehydrated and damaged skin
While they don't give percentages of the ingredients, I wonder if anyone has tried just straight Mineral oil on Bakelite?
I use the fine 00 steel wool. The length of time depends on the condition of the handset. Its more a feel of when it looks right. Usually under 30 minutes. You will know when its done as the bakelite will have a glow/shine to it, just be wiping off the bakelite dust. After the steel wool, then I add the Avon SSS.
The green North was an absolute mess, more brown than green. It had really faded. When I was using the steel wool it was turning green and I thought I had gone too far. I probably could have taken it a bit further, but this was my first time using steel wool on bakelite other than black. When using steel wool on black, the bakelite dust is brown, like I'm taking off the age and grime. I hate to say layer, because I don't think bakelite is layered. Surface coat, I guess. The green North took days to complete, not hours. This was a labor of love. I was extremely lucking finding these two beauties, a few months apart to boot....Doug
I took the handset off and used the steel wool again on it for another 15 minutes or so. I think that's the best it's going to get, since there was little change in the appearance. It wasn't in bad shape to begin with, just minus the shiny outer coating, but that's ok, I kinda like the semi-gloss look. I've recoated it in SSS and am going to leave it for a couple days, recoating it each day. I dislike strong perfumey smells, but I found a way to minimize that by enclosing it in a 2 gallon zip-lock bag while it's soaking up the SSS.
I can't speak for others but I give my hat off for suggesting the Skin So Soft and the process that goes along with using it. I ordered it and worked on a bakelike handset including the SSS. WOW. It really did the trick. One thing I have to suggest is that after sanding, use tack cloth to get all of the loose matter off of the handset before applying the SSS. Tack cloth is used in woodworking to remove sawdust before applying a finish. Overall, I can't be more satisfied with the results.
Thanks.
Dan
Quote from: djtownsend on May 12, 2011, 09:29:31 AM
I can't speak for others but I give my hat off for suggesting the Skin So Soft and the process that goes along with using it. I ordered it and worked on a bakelike handset including the SSS. WOW. It really did the trick. One thing I have to suggest is that after sanding, use tack cloth to get all of the loose matter off of the handset before applying the SSS. Tack cloth is used in woodworking to remove sawdust before applying a finish. Overall, I can't be more satisfied with the results.
Thanks.
Dan
Over Twenty years ago I was walking a flea market and a seller had these really shiny bakelite phones. I asked him how he got them so shiny, and he said Avon SSS. I asked him if he meant the smelly sh*t that keeps mosquitoes away. Yessir! How did you ever think to use it? He nodded to the seller next to him, my girlfriend sells Avon. He never explained the leap to the phones, but he was correct. The fine steel wool was just a guess on my part...Doug
About the leap to the phones: how it must have gone.
He'd just finished cleaning one and it was clean but dull. Then his girlfriend came over and picked up the receiver, while she still had some of that Avon stuff on her hand. When she put it down, he noticed the shine and asked her what she had on her hands.
And the rest is history. Except that Avon still hasn't traded its old doorbell sound for a C4A ringer!
Quote from: GG on May 13, 2011, 01:20:49 AM
About the leap to the phones: how it must have gone.
He'd just finished cleaning one and it was clean but dull. Then his girlfriend came over and picked up the receiver, while she still had some of that Avon stuff on her hand. When she put it down, he noticed the shine and asked her what she had on her hands.
And the rest is history. Except that Avon still hasn't traded its old doorbell sound for a C4A ringer!
It's the Original Bath Oil that's used, so she must have just got out of the bath.
I'm going to jump in here, and you can beat me up if you want. I don't mean to sound preachy, and I apolgize in advance if it comes across that way.
In the very first post in this thread, Trainman said "you can't polish bakelite". I believe he is right - you can't polish real bakelite.
Bakelite is simply a phenol resin mixed with a fine sawdust filler. Molded bakelite can be smooth and glossy when new, because the phenol (a liquid) was pressed against the mirror-finish surface of an expensive mold. But later, if the surface of the part gets worn or scuffed, and you try to polish it, you expose the sawdust-and-phenol mixture below the surface - and it looks like hell. Trainman used the word "layer" to describe the glossy surface, but it isn't really a layer (like paint). It is simply the surface of the phenol liquid.
The confusion arises, I think, because the word "bakelite" is so often misused, to describe any plasticy material that was molded into a shape. I'm not directly familiar with the North Telephones that are pictured in this thread, but they look quite similar to Western Electric 302's. The shell of a 302 is often descirbed as bakelite, but it is not - it is a thermoplastic (except the early ones which were metal). Similarly, the E-1 and F-1 handsets are bakelite, but I don't think the G-1 is. NOT CORRECT - SEE BELOW
In this thread
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2229.0
JorgeAmely, one of our more knowledgable members, observed that "Bakelite is a thermoset: once cast, it cannot be melted to be cast into another plastic part. You can think of it as concrete. What makes it shiny is a thin layer of plastic that coats the mold before they inject it with the bakelite compound.
Tenite and ABS are thermoplastics: once cast, it can be melted into another shape. Unlike bakelite, it is homogeneous all the way through, so if you find a defect, you can sand it lightly, polish it and regain the luster it originally had."
The "hot pin test" is often suggested as a way to tell the difference. A hot pin will penetrate into a thermoplastic - it will not penetrate into a thermosetting plastic like bakelite.
Why do I care? Like Briny, I have an F1 handset (true bakelite), which is scuffed dull dull dull. Dull enough that it is not in any way attractive. I would love to make it glossy again. But I've had the same experience that Briny sounds like he had. I spent a lot of time trying to polish it, and simply made it more dull. Applying oil, like SSS, simply gave me an oily handset, but it still looked dull, so I had to clean off the oil with a solvent. Shoe polish made it blacker, but not glossier. The only solution, I think, is to paint it with a glossy paint.
Finally, cihensley recently posted a link to a WECo patent on re-covering Bakelite. The process is complex, involves many steps, special equipment, and noxious chemicals. If a little bit of oil or shoe polish or a buffing machine could do it, WECo would not have sunk all the money into developing this re-covering (not polishing) process.
So I agree with Trainman - true bakelite can't be polished.
In the antique radio community, it is common to find radios from the 1920s with a black bakelite front panel, and these panels are usually dull and dingy. Although they can be cleaned, it is accepted that they can't be polished. Many (including me) have tried, and it simply looks worse after polishing.
I'll get off my soapbox now. But if we are trying to help new and old members with their phones, it is better to give real advice. I know I wasted a lot of time and effort trying to polish bakelite, and in the end I just made it worse. I will paint it instead.
Bill
Bill...how do you explain my Brown North Galion and my Green North Galion in the beginning of the post? When you wipe the Avon SSS off the bakelite, it does not remain oily. Its seeps in and dries. I think the two Norths had a rather dramatic change and remain in the same condition today. I don't have all the facts as you do, but I think I have the proof. They are not oily and in my estimation, pretty shiny; not dull and very faded as they were in the original "before' pictures. I think they are an upgrade over the condition that they were in, whether there are layers in bakelite or not, but just my opinion. What do you think? Are these Norths not "real bakelite." Not trying to beat you up, BUT I really just do not understand. They sure look good to me. I've been using this refurb method for years on bakelite, 99% black bakelite, but I thought it was real bakelite. What is the difference?
Doug -
As your pictures show, your Galions look great, and are a great improvement over the "before" pictures. But no, I don't think they are true bakelite. Like WECo 302s (also referred to as bakelite very often), I think they are a thermoplastic. It would be interesting to try the hot pin test.
Bill
Yes I read your post, over and over.
As for this comment
"But if we are trying to help new and old members with their phones, it is better to give real advice. I know I wasted a lot of time and effort trying to polish bakelite."
Hard to be happy after seeing that.
What is true bakelite? I really need to know.
I have only been able to use steel wool on bakelite.
Tenite. One pass of steel will would destroy it in a second. The green North had hours upon hours of steel wool and SSS. WE 302s are not bakelite. Only thing WE made in bakelite, that I am aware of, are black E1, F1 and early G1 handsets. No shell that I am aware of was made by WE in bakelite. I would strongly advise anyone not to use steel wool on them, but again, just my opinion and not real advise...Doug
I am amazed the SSS had to be removed with a solvent. I let it sit a few days and wipe it off with a rag. Not oily at all.
OK, it is an interesting topic, so I followed my own advice. I pulled out a beat-up 302, took off the base, and applied the point of a hot fine-tip soldering iron (I was doing some repairs on something else) to an inconspicuous spot inside the case. As the kids say (or used to say, I can't keep up), it was "like buttah!" I could have pushed the hot point right through the case in two or three seconds. It is thermoplastic, and melts easily as described by JorgeAmely.
On the other hand, I was wrong about the G1 handset. I pulled one out, unscrewed the earpiece cap, dropped out the element, and pushed the same hot soldering iron against the back of the cavity. It didn't even make a mark. The G-1, like the E-1 and F-1, is apparently bakelite. I will modify my post above so that there is no confusion.
So how to tell the difference? Real heat seems to be the ultimate test. But I noticed a couple things that will help me in the future. First, the 302 case is rather flexible - once the case was off the base, it was easy to bend the sidewall back and forth by an eighth of an inch. Bakelite seems to be much more rigid. Second, bakelite "feels" heavier. The 302 case felt lightweight, not quite cheesy but not heavy and sturdy, either. When I picked up the G-1 handset, I noticed immediately that it felt solid and heavy. Jorge used the analogy of concrete, and that isn't too far off. I suppose it takes some practice, but these will help me in the future.
As for your Galions, I have never seen/touched/bent/burned one, so I don't know. But they look like 302s, and they polished up wonderfully, like 302s, so I still tend to think they are not bakelite.
Bill
Bakelite is bakelite. Bakelite will tolerate putting paint stripper on it and the use of steel wool in it. Stripper on tenite and you have a melted mound of goo. Steel wool on tenite and you will cry when you see your damaged treasure. Done them both. The Norths are bakelite and just because you have not held them or done your tests on them, does not mean they are not bakelite.
Skin so soft is not just any oil and works better than Wesson! I recommended skin so soft as bakelite being porous, absorbs the SSS. If it needs more in an area, it will dry. Reapply. When no more absorbs, wipe it off. NO SOLVENT needed. It treats the bakelite as it would your own skin. If you did not use SSS, you did not use the correct product as directed.
Directions were to use fine steel wool until the bakelite produced a shine and then use the skin so soft. I have done this on hundreds of bakelite phone parts and it worked everytime.
"But if we are trying to help new and old members with their phones, it is better to give real advice."
I still have trouble with this qoute as it is directed at me, since it is my advice. The advice was sound and if followed properly, does work. Sounds like you altered the method and blamed the advice (me). If you had followed the directions, your F1 would have shined. Not like a new bakelite handset, but it would look darn good.
Early G1s were bakelite, don't try iit on later G1s or see mound of goo.....Doug
Doug,
I have tried it on E1, F1, and G1 handsets and it never helped. The same happened to me,I had to scrub it off. I followed the advice to a T.
Black G1 bakelite handsets were used on all black 500's from 1949 until 1963-64. Tenite was only used in colored sets from 1954-1959 and they were G3 not G1. As far as I know a black G3 handset in tenite never exsisted. They made them in ABS in 1964 as I have one but the G1 was only produced in bakelite.
QuoteI still have trouble with this qoute as it is directed at me, since it is my advice.
No, it certainly is not directed at you. It is directed at the habitual use, by nearly everyone, of the term "bakelite" to denote any plastic material. That is where the problem comes in, because it means that people have trouble choosing the right refinishing technique. If someone is told that he has a "bakelite" phone, he may try a bakelite-appropriate repair technique, such a vigorous sanding. And if his phone is really plastic, we are agreed that he will destroy his phone.
Sorry (again) if you were offended. It was not intended, and it certainly doesn't help anyone choose the right technique. Why don't you and I agree to just drop the subject. I'm willing to let people make the best choice they can.
Bill
Bakelite is a marvelous compound to refurb in my humble estimation. Real bakelite; not Tenite, not softplastic, not thermoplastic; not hard plastic: bakelite. Bakelite is thick and heavy. You drop it, it could shatter. I have dropped an F1 and had it broken in half. I have dropped an AE40 and had it crack down the middle. Bakelite only! Its tempermental and damages easily, see Kellogg 925 Ashtray. Bakelite was too thin, chips and cracks all the time. WE E1 spit cup, chips chips chips. Bakelite!
Lets forget Avon Skin so Soft. Take it out of the equation.
Bakelite and fine 00 steel wool. NO SSS. Fine steel wool on bakelite will give it a warm glow. It will become smooth and shiny. You can use paint stripper on bakelite. Remove the paint and the paint acted like a preservative. Bakelite will be smooth and shiny underneath. The bakelite has to be in smooth usable condition. The receiver caps on a WE F1 will sometimes get rough and course. When your bakelite is like this, trash it or paint it. That is the only time I will ever paint bakelite. 95% of the bakelite I can use fine steel wool on will come out looking great.
As you use the steel wool on it, you will see it start to shine. The SSS is just use to get moisture back in the bakelite as it is very porous, it will drink it up. If you don't like the smell or the oiliness, don't use use. I think its a wonder oil, but that's just me. The steel wool will do the trick. In my opinion, the SSS really makes a difference it the future of the bakelite.
I have been doing this for thirty years and it always has worked for me. I walked around my phone room last night and looked at the bakelite phones I have restored using this formula. This will be the last time I will mention bakelite or SSS or steel wool. I am just not understanding why this works for me and not anyone else.
Yes, bakelite is the most overused term in phones. Sellers call everything bakelite.
Doug
interesting thread....I just used WD-40 to clean mine up with... it does the job, but only for awhile. but it was mainly used for cleaning, not polishing.... I'll have to try some turtlewax and see what that does for me. John
Quote from: Bill on July 10, 2011, 04:50:12 PM
I'm going to jump in here, and you can beat me up if you want. I don't mean to sound preachy, and I apolgize in advance if it comes across that way.
In the very first post in this thread, Trainman said "you can't polish bakelite". I believe he is right - you can't polish real bakelite.
Bakelite is simply a phenol resin mixed with a fine sawdust filler. Molded bakelite can be smooth and glossy when new, because the phenol (a liquid) was pressed against the mirror-finish surface of an expensive mold. But later, if the surface of the part gets worn or scuffed, and you try to polish it, you expose the sawdust-and-phenol mixture below the surface - and it looks like hell. Trainman used the word "layer" to describe the glossy surface, but it isn't really a layer (like paint). It is simply the surface of the phenol liquid.
The confusion arises, I think, because the word "bakelite" is so often misused, to describe any plasticy material that was molded into a shape. I'm not directly familiar with the North Telephones that are pictured in this thread, but they look quite similar to Western Electric 302's. The shell of a 302 is often descirbed as bakelite, but it is not - it is a thermoplastic (except the early ones which were metal). Similarly, the E-1 and F-1 handsets are bakelite, but I don't think the G-1 is. NOT CORRECT - SEE BELOW
Certainly much that is described as Bakelite is not. Phenol formaldehyde resin is a reddish-brown colour, so anything which is not brown or black is not going to be Bakelite for a start, unless it is painted of course. The Ivory GPO 300 series 'phones for example are often described as Bakelite, but they are not, I think they are actually Urea Formaldehyde, which is more fragile than Bakelite is.
I think that Bakelite is strictly somebody's trade name, but if we accept that it has come into generic use to describe any filled phenol formaldehyde thermosetting resin, then all Bakelite is certainly not created equal; some of it will polish very well, while other will not. While the best Bakelite used wood flour filler, asbestos was also quite widely used, I believe that it was both cheaper, and produced a stronger product, but did not look as good. Where telephones are concerned my experience has been that British Bakelite is generally of better quality than American, though there are exceptions; I have an old SC 'curved' handset, which is good, and takes a very good polish. Interestingly, with ABS plastic, the opposite seems to apply; the American material seems to be better than the British, which is more prone to warping, and shows much worse discolouration, which penetrates much deeper than the American material.
The handset on my SC 1543 for example is Bakelite, it was very dull and dirty when I received it; the dirt has cleaned off, but it will not take a good polish; it has less of a shine, and the surface has a courser, almost gritty look to it. I'm pretty sure that the filler in this case is asbestos, rather than wood flour. GPO Bakelite still seems to take a good polish, even when the original surface has been rubbed away. The handset on my recently-acquired 'toaster' 'phone is also Bakelite, clean, but very dull. I think somebody has used some sort of quite course abrasive on it. It's getting better, but still looks rather like the 1543 handset. In contrast, I have a GPO block terminal in front of me, on which I have polished out some quite deep scratches, and the surface still looks as good as new.
Could it be that on some of the courser Bakelites a surface layer of resin without filler was used, either applied to the mould in the same way as the 'gel coat' on GRP mouldings, or sprayed onto the surface of the Bakelite afterwards, to improve the appearance, but which was not required on better quality Bakelite? I've seen Bakelite parts which have been partly shaped by machining, where the finished shape would have been difficult to produce entirely by moulding, and the machined surface has polished up quite well.
What would you folks suggest for maintaining the bakelite? I just bought a Kellogg redbar phone that I use on a daily basis and want to maintain the shine of the phone and prevent the case from drying and developing cracks. Do any of you routinely polish them up with SSS by just applying with a cloth?
If you use a bakelite handset on a daily basis, I'd think that putting something between your skin and the bakelite is the way to go to prevent wear. I wax mine occasionally to provide a protective barrier over the bakelite. Plus it makes it look nice.
Bingster -
What do you wax it with? Car wax?
Bill
I think paste car wax is probably the best thing, but I don't have any, so I use plain old Minwax cabinet wax in the big yellow can. Apply it, wait 15-20 mins, rub excess off.
I found a can of Design Master triple thick Master Shine super gloss finish #354 and tested it on a bakelite cap off a Galion H270 wall phone. I scrubbed the cap with a sos pad to remove any grime or polish and gave it a couple of coats of the 354. Looks great as you can see in comparison. Has anyone tried this or anything like it? Am restoring a "jukebox" wall phone and thinking about using it to restore the shine but don't want to ruin this very collectable phone.
Quote from: Doug Rose on May 03, 2011, 01:32:54 PM
I use the fine 00 steel wool. The length of time depends on the condition of the handset. Its more a feel of when it looks right. Usually under 30 minutes. You will know when its done as the bakelite will have a glow/shine to it, just be wiping off the bakelite dust. After the steel wool, then I add the Avon SSS.
I don't understand why some people claim the steel wool method doesn't work. I can only think that they might not be using 0000 steel wool, or that their supplier uses poorly graded steel wool. Buy the good stuff from a paint store, not the consumer grade from a box store.
I just finished doing a old handset which was in very bad condition, no pitting, but no gloss at all, and paint spotting all over it. It now even without the SSS has a beautiful soft glow and no scratching.
Also, in the past, I discovered that Novus #3 polish works well on bakelite. I don't even go down to #2. Bakelite seems to need the additional coarseness of the #2 polish.
Dave
Dave....I've been using this method consistantly for more years than I'd like to remember. I have never had a bakelite that didn't have orange peel look good as new again....thanks....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on September 27, 2012, 02:19:48 PM
Dave....I've been using this method consistantly for more years than I'd like to remember. I have never had a bakelite that didn't have orange peel look good as new again....thanks....Doug
Well, you are right - it works like a charm. Like I mentioned, I had been using Novus 3 on bakelite, but the .0000 steel wool treatment is faster and leaves a super soft glow to the handset. I will always keep good steel wool here for that job. I didn't need to use the SSS, because I love the soft gloss it left the handset with.
Dave
I'm new to this forum as well as new to obtaining Rotary Phones and restoring them.
This thread drew me as I was out back in the shop trying to get an AE40 to shine using Novus #2.
Steel wool was the farthest thing from my mind. I am definitely going to try it. I already have the SSS as the in-law peddles avon :)
Only thing I'm not sure of now is if it actually is bakelite?
I also picked up a AE50 "jukebox" so that will be my next patient.
Great thread guys
Quote from: axil on October 09, 2012, 11:24:23 PM
I'm new to this forum as well as new to obtaining Rotary Phones and restoring them.
This thread drew me as I was out back in the shop trying to get an AE40 to shine using Novus #2.
Steel wool was the farthest thing from my mind. I am definitely going to try it. I already have the SSS as the in-law peddles avon :)
Only thing I'm not sure of now is if it actually is bakelite?
I also picked up a AE50 "jukebox" so that will be my next patient.
Great thread guys
Much as I support using steel wool on bakelite handsets, I wouldn't recommend using it on the body of an AE40 - you could completely destroy the phone. I would use it on a bakelite handset. I have always found the best thing to use on bakelite phone bodies is NOVUS #3, then follow that up with Novus #2. Once that is done, use SSS.
I don't know how the other fellows feel about this, but AE 40s are beginning to get expensive and I don't want to see you destroy yours. I would be very cautious. If you try this and try it on a hidden part of the phone first..
Dave
Quote from: DavePEI on October 10, 2012, 12:44:11 AM
Much as I support using steel wool on bakelite handsets, I wouldn't recommend using it on the body of an AE40 - you could completely destroy the phone. I would use it on a bakelite handset. I have always found the best thing to use on bakelite phone bodies is NOVUS #3, then follow that up with Novus #2. Once that is done, use SSS.
I don't know how the other fellows feel about this, but AE 40s are beginning to get expensive and I don't want to see you destroy yours. I would be very cautious if you try this and try it on a hidden part of the phone first..
Dave
Quote from: axil on October 10, 2012, 01:04:15 AMThx Dave do you use a polisher(ryobi) when applying the Novus products?
I use a home built buffer, Axil. And I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I get some pretty good results. See:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/buffing.html
The reason a lot of us would try stainless steel on bakelite handsets (not plastic), is they often become very badly messed up due to the action of the environment and more importantly I think, skin oils on them. This very seldom happens to the actual phone body, and a body would have to be truly bad before I would even consider it.
Novus #3 is (on plastic) made for deep scratch removal. In my experience on bakelite, it works more like Novus 2 does on plastic, but yes, you do need a power buffer, or else it would take days.
With a power buffer, though, keep a really good grip on the body - a buffer can rip it right out of your hands and throw it to the floor - I've had it happen. These things do take experience, and unless your body is in terrible shape, for now until you have more experience, I would suggest just using hand rubbed Novus #2 and SSS.
Some day when you have a scrap phone is the time to play with buffers. With plastic using a buffer, you need to move the piece quite quickly on the wheel - you can burn (melt) the plastic with the heat generated during the buffing process. I really do recommend doing it for the first time on a phone which doesn't mean anything to you (something from a budget store such as I did when I started machine buffing). Please don't try it the first time on a phone you really care about.
That being said, I think a lot of people here will recommend machine buffing, but it is an acquired skill. You do need to move the piece at the correct speed, and use appropriate pressure, all something you are best learning on a scrap piece...
It is nice to see the difference it can make, though. Never mix grits on the same wheel - in other words, have a wheel for course buffing, another for fine compound.
I hear about a lot of people using Ryobis for buffing with good result. I can't speak for it myself, as I haven't tried it myself. It would likely be gentler and less likely to burn.
Dave
As for buffers, most will recommend a buffer in the 1700 RPM range or slower rather than the usual 3400 RPM range. 3400 is okay for metal but not most phones unless you are very experienced.
As Dave says, be very carefully with the steel wool too, Bakelite has a resin like shiny surface to it that in some cases isn't very thick and if you wear thought it, you are done.
Terry
Quote from: DavePEI on October 10, 2012, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: axil on October 09, 2012, 11:24:23 PM
I'm new to this forum as well as new to obtaining Rotary Phones and restoring them.
This thread drew me as I was out back in the shop trying to get an AE40 to shine using Novus #2.
Steel wool was the farthest thing from my mind. I am definitely going to try it. I already have the SSS as the in-law peddles avon :)
Only thing I'm not sure of now is if it actually is bakelite?
I also picked up a AE50 "jukebox" so that will be my next patient.
Great thread guys
Much as I support using steel wool on bakelite handsets, I wouldn't recommend using it on the body of an AE40 - you could completely destroy the phone. I would use it on a bakelite handset. I have always found the best thing to use on bakelite phone bodies is NOVUS #3, then follow that up with Novus #2. Once that is done, use SSS.
I don't know how the other fellows feel about this, but AE 40s are beginning to get expensive and I don't want to see you destroy yours. I would be very cautious. If you try this and try it on a hidden part of the phone first..
Dave
Fine Steel Wool worked really great on my Mahogany North Galion....Doug
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3509.15
steel wool worked fine on my Green North as well....Doug
Thx for the info guys..i'm sure glad i found this forum. I have a lot of phones sitting oh does anyone have any special ways of removing nicotine? Specificallly from plastic?
Quote from: Doug Rose on April 30, 2011, 08:57:07 PM
Bakelite is very resilient and reacts well to fine steel wool. Steel wool removes the layers of age, dullness, grime and dirt. When finished with the steel wool, the bakelite will have a shine. It has a glow the the friction causes, almost a depth to it. Below are the before and after of my Mahogany North and Green North. Avon SSS bath oil is the finishing touch. ....Doug
Doug -
Have you ever used an automobile's headlight lens repair kit to polish Bakelite?
Have you ever used PBC (plastic buffing compound) on Bakelite?
Thank you in advance for your reply !
Gerald
Hey Gerald....I have some lens repair that didn't do real well on my headlights so I never tried it. I have never buffed bakelite as my fine steel wool and Avon SOS works fine for me. Others disagree, but ot me it is the best ting for bakelite....welcome to the Forum....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on July 22, 2013, 06:19:07 PM
Hey Gerald....I have some lens repair that didn't do real well on my headlights so I never tried it. I have never buffed bakelite as my fine steel wool and Avon SOS works fine for me. Others disagree, but ot me it is the best ting for bakelite....welcome to the Forum....Doug
Doug -
Thank you for your email, you saved me the time and cost on the lens repair
kit !!!
I have purchased the steel wool, Bondo and Avon SOS and am going to try it on my first project starting tomorrow.
Thanks Again !
Gerald
PBC? You can get some here:
http://www.delviesplastics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DPI&Category_Code=Buffing_Accessories
I usually buy the 2.5 lb econo bar @ $9. You will need, of course, a buffer and 6" or 8" cotton buffing wheels on the same page if you don't have them already. Buffer, I believe, can be found at other venues for cheaper. But keep it the same model....
By far the fastest, least elbow grease way to get it done once you get past the initial investment...
Hey thanks for chiming in Barry.
Don't be a stranger here!
Terry
Quote from: phone-sweep on July 23, 2013, 10:13:05 PM
PBC? You can get some here:
http://www.delviesplastics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DPI&Category_Code=Buffing_Accessories
I usually buy the 2.5 lb econo bar @ $9. You will need, of course, a buffer and 6" or 8" cotton buffing wheels on the same page if you don't have them already. Buffer, I believe, can be found at other venues for cheaper. But keep it the same model....
By far the fastest, least elbow grease way to get it done once you get past the initial investment...
Thank you so much for your help !!! It's GREAT to have a place to get and give information !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a cracked F1 handset that I used to test mineral oil instead of Skin So Soft. I gave it a wipe-down with mineral oil and let it sit. After a few days the bakelite is noticeably darker and has more sheen. It's not oily and dry to the touch, so it might absorb another coat or two. The dry area is where I had placed a strip of masking tape on the original finish. There's no perfume scent and it seems to have the same effect on Bakelite. I'm trying it on another handset and caps now.
Wow, that looks amazing! I definitely need to try that, I like how it richens the black. Writhing a note right now to buy some mineral oil.
Ben
Thanks Ben...I do have some SSS, but thought I might try mineral oil for those of us that don't have an Avon rep. Now I can save the SSS to use as mosquito repellent. ;)