Please help with Stromberg-Carlson 1543

[G-Man]

Looks to me like a 60-Hz frequency ringer:

The clapper rod has a small clapper/weight on it that is attached to it with a set-screw.  Set screw mounting usually indicates a frequency ringer and small size of clapper/weight indicates higher ringing frequency.

The ringer itself seen in the second photo shows the number 72 J 60, which I'll guess means "ringer type 72 J, frequency 60 Hz." 

However do NOT connect that ringer directly to house current AC.  Instead try connecting it to 24 volt AC from a 1A2 power supply if you have one around, and see what happens.

It may be possible to make this phone ring by using an AC to AC power supply, and a relay (plus capacitor and zener diodes) activated by ringing current on the phone line.

Re. the dial:

The Select-O-Phone variant of the Kellogg 10-G dial has normally open contacts, and the metal part in which the impulse cam rotates, or the impulse cam itself, is designed in a manner that cannot be converted to give a normally closed operation. 

SC dials of that vintage have a very similar impulse mechanism to Kellogg 10-G dials, so it is entirely likely that if they are normally-open, they will not be possible to adjust.

However!, you can easily find 1543s in crappy condition on Ebay, and transplant the relevant components, thereby preserving as much of your older one as possible. 

The type of ringer in this instrument is unknown at this time and will remain so until we see a more detailed photograph.

As far as it being a 60-cycle frequency ringer, that would not be out of the question since it was not uncommon to use an isolation transformer to apply 60-cycle voltage from the mains supply.

This method was sometimes used for small pax's to save the cost of a SubCycle to convert commercial power line frequency to 20-cycles.

The ringer code numbers shown in the 1500-series/1543 handbooks all begin with 73(x), and the "J" suffix indicates 60-cycles. Since this ringer has a 72(x) code with a "J" suffix it may very well indicate it was intended for use at 60-cycles, but since the number is non-standard it may indicate it is used at a lower-voltage such as 12 or 24 volts a.c.

Your suggestion of trying it first on a 24-volt source is a good one but I do not recall a KTS power supply as having 24-volt a.c. outputs.   
         
Again, a close-up of the dial contacts will help determine if the contact assembly can be removed and the contact leafs can be re-arranged to allow a n.c. Arrangement. Otherwise your suggestion of a donor set is a good one, but it would be nice to first see if he can save a few bucks by making some simple adjustments.

[holdthephone]

Thanks again for all the info folks!

Is there an easy way to remove the metal fingerwheel on this SC dial? Or should I leave it alone? I would just like to get it out of the way to clean the dial face. The inside is very clean and seems to just need a little lube. It is a bit slow and screechy on the return.

Pics of the ringer also as requested. It's funny, I noticed some electrical tape residue on the bells on either side of the clapper weight. I guess this was someones early attempt at volume control!

[dsk]

Do you have an ohm meter?

If yes,could you please measure the resistance through the ringer coil.
I agree in those others idea about a 60 Hz ringer, but it is probably not tuned. It will probably work at 20 Hz too.
The ringer has no capacitor in series, so don't put it on a regular line yet.
If the coil has a resistance between 600 and 4000 ohms it is a hope for getting it working as a regular ringer.

The dial may be more of a problem, I need some more thinking to figure out how to use that, maybe a relay or something outside the telephone.

dsk

[unbeldi]

Hello, just found this old discussion.
From looking at the pictures, I do not believe that this is a 1543-based model, rather it is a 1443. The 1400-series was a transition series between the 1200s and the 1500-series and had many overlapping component types. All features of this phone point to an earlier version.

The 72-series ringer is the one used on 1443 sets.

What convinced me as to the identity mostly however, is the part number of the potted network, 208359. I have seen this model used only on the 1443 line.

The dial does not seem to me anything special, it's just like my own 1443 dials. But you did not tell us, I believe, if it in fact has different contacts. The contacts I can see look standard.
You can remove the finger wheel with a standard 5/8" nut or spark plug wrench.

The hand set is of a newer design however, it is one used early on for the 1543-series. It's identified by the 'diamond' shape where the handle meets the transmitter and receiver cups.

The date stamps on this phone date it from January (3-58 on dial and network) to March (12-58 on base) of 1958.

I have seen the designation TD-80 on phones with a dial card having a Dial-X insert, so I believe it was used with the Dial-X systems.

[LarryInMichigan]

The networks in the 1443s have an internal ringer capacitor while the 1543s had a capacitor mounted on the ringer assembly.

Larry

[unbeldi]

The networks in the 1443s have an internal ringer capacitor while the 1543s had a capacitor mounted on the ringer assembly.

Larry

That is correct, I forgot to mention it in the network discussion.

[G-Man]

I am not sure as to why TD-80 instruments entered this discussion since they will NOT work on a pots line and do not have standard network components.

They are a totally different animal and as you have surmised they are strictly for use on Dial-X systems.

I believe the schematics are in the TCI Library and if not they are readily available from members on another listserve as are the diagrams and practices for the 1400 and 1500-series.

[unbeldi]

I am not sure as to why TD-80 instruments entered this discussion since they will NOT work on a pots line and do not have standard network components.

They are a totally different animal and as you have surmised they are strictly for use on Dial-X systems.

I believe the schematics are in the TCI Library and if not they are readily available from members on another listserve as are the diagrams and practices for the 1400 and 1500-series.

Well, TD-80 entered this discussion quite obviously because the base of this telephone is clearly marked such, yet all components appear to be standard 1443 types, and not 1543 as previously suggested. The components and the base are date-marked reasonably close together, which would be somewhat hard to assemble from pieces, since not all S-C components are dated.

[G-Man]

I did not realize that this thread is almost a year old and that I had previously identified this instrument as a TD80-series telephone as used on the Stromberg-Carlson Dial-X and Dial Master systems.

The "network" is referred to in the schematic as a "Resistor-Capacitor Assembly" and does not contain an induction coil or any other inductors.

It will not work as a standard telephone; in fact, the dial pulsing contacts are normally open (n.o.) and not closed (n.c.) as they normally are standard dials.

The dial contacts on this instrument are (n.o.).

The values of the components inside the "network" are:

• Resistors- 180-Ohm and 220-Ohm
  Capacitors- .22uF and .34uF

Those are the ONLY components inside the "network.

They were used with Stromberg-Carlson "Dial X" and "Dial Master" systems.
Dial Master had a capacity of up to 100 stations.  Dial X systems were configured as 10 line, single link, 20 and 40 line multi-link systems. In later years the telephone sets were designated as TD-4500 Desk, and TD-4510 Wall sets. 

[unbeldi]

I did not realize that this thread is almost a year old and that I had previously identified this instrument as a TD80-series telephone as used on the Stromberg-Carlson Dial-X and Dial Master systems.

The "network" is referred to in the schematic as a "Resistor-Capacitor Assembly" and does not contain an induction coil or any other inductors.

It will not work as a standard telephone; in fact, the dial pulsing contacts are normally open (n.o.) and not closed (n.c.) as they normally are standard dials.

The dial contacts on this instrument are (n.o.).

The values of the components inside the "network" are:

• Resistors- 180-Ohm and 220-Ohm
  Capacitors- .22uF and .34uF

Those are the ONLY components inside the "network.

They were used with Stromberg-Carlson "Dial X" and "Dial Master" systems.
Dial Master had a capacity of up to 100 stations.  Dial X systems were configured as 10 line, single link, 20 and 40 line multi-link systems. In later years the telephone sets were designated as TD-4500 Desk, and TD-4510 Wall sets. 

I simply do not believe that is correct, you are probably reading a diagram that is not for this phone, no matter the designation. The components in THIS phone are the identical types used in the 1443. A standard 72-series ringer, and standard full network 208359, and dial seems no different either.
Would you please share the document with us or where it can be found?

[G-Man]

Yes the components do look "like" those used in other S-C sets the same (depending upon the vintage) as some Select-O-Phone instruments  and components look like Kellogg Redbar or K-500 sets.

Here is an old postings from another listserve concerning a similar TD-80:

Price reduction SC Dial X phones
For sale: Stromberg Carlson DialX TD 80 telephone (looks like 1543) Bottom marked TD 80 72J60 Metal Dial, all number ring 208359 network ringer Needs line cord $20.00 to your door

Stromberg Carlson DialX 4500 telephone (looks like 1543) Bottom marked 4500 Plastic dial, metropolitan number ring, round feet 1960 Buzzer 210640128 Network $20.00 to your door

Claude Sterling ATCA 1437
Claude Sterling Oct 27, 2005

[unbeldi]

Yes the components do look "like" those used in other S-C sets the same (depending upon the vintage) as some Select-O-Phone instruments  and components look like Kellogg Redbar or K-500 sets.

You have to explain that statement.  How can they look like Kellogg Redbar parts, they surely do not. By the picture evidence this unit as pictured works like a normal POTS phone of the time.

[G-Man]

Here is a close-up of the pulsing contacts from the photo that holdthephone provided of the dial in this telephone.

Here is a quote from one of his original post:

The contacts look n.o.
Thanks, -Mo

[G-Man]

Depending on the vintage, I have Select-O-Phone instruments that look like Kellogg Redbar or K-500 sets. This is an established fact that experienced collectors are familiar with.

I brought this up to illustrate that manufacturers often used components and housings for other models even if they were used in dissimilar applications. There absolutely be no reason for them to design and manufacture totally different handsets and networks if existing ones would suffice.

[unbeldi]

fact that experienced collectors are familiar with.

Experienced collector would have certainly recognized 1400 series components, not been puzzled by 72-series ringer numbers, and not misidentified the rest with 1500-series parts.