Caught the Lantern Bug! (plus a somewhat related discussion of LEDs)

[AL_as_needed]

Thanks in part to some rather in depth and well photographed lantern restorations (not naming names here... ) and the "need" for something more than candles when the power goes out.... I think I have now been bitten by yet another bug!

All started with a cheerful Dietz Little Wizard that required very little work (after some sage like advice). Naturally I had to up the stakes a bit and ended up with a barn fresh version. This one was COVERED in surface rust and everything else imaginable. All but the bottom was well caked. Yes, there is some pitting on the tank wall, a few small dents and overall character, but why not? After a literal hose-down and 12hr soak in a very very mild vinegar + salt solution, we can see some real metal!

This is a slow but trusted process at least for me. Yes there are others that may work better, but this has served well with firearms and tools I have saved in the past. Stick with what ya know....for now.

Pictures not the highest quality, more and hopefully better  to follow as progress becomes more noticeable.

[Babybearjs]

something like that would probably get electrified by me.... I'd probably put in a small 12Volt lamp and hang them in the garden as accent lighting....

[AL_as_needed]

Electric?  What is this new fangled technology you kids are into these days?    The more rusty the more fun.

Anyway....it came out looking pretty well after a three day soak in a 25% (+/-) vinegar solution, followed by fine steel wool and good old WD40. Yes, it could be cleaned up further, but being as old as it is (1-'38), its fair to let it keep some of its character. The right air tube (when looking at the font) was pulled a bit off the tank (prob when it received a few of those dents and lost its original globe...). This was  a bit too much for solder, so I went with a J-B Weld type boiler putty I have had luck with in the past and is not really noticeable at first glance either.  A nice but still unique companion to my other blue little wizard, also pictured.

[Alex G. Bell]

something like that would probably get electrified by me.... I'd probably put in a small 12Volt lamp and hang them in the garden as accent lighting....

Indeed!  I've purchased PR-style lamp based LED retrofits for flashlights and have been stunned by how much light they throw now and how long the batteries last, making useful again flashlights with special design characteristics I had stopped using. 

One, for example, has a pull-up reflector so that when placed with its front lens face down on a surface a clear plastic tube along its length is exposed to emit light radially from the sides.  Intended for using as a camping light it leaves both hands free to perform tasks when set this way but throws a powerful beam when the reflector is pushed back against the body/battery compartment.  It takes 4 "AA" cells.  I've been using it a few hours/week this way for months as a bicycle headlamp and am still on the first set of batteries since retrofitting it. 

Truly amazing how useful it's become after hiding in the closet for a couple of decades and just one of a number I've retrofit.  Wish there was a miniature screw base version of these LEDs to retrofit my Bell System Just-Rite "light sticks".

[TelePlay]

something like that would probably get electrified by me.... I'd probably put in a small 12Volt lamp and hang them in the garden as accent lighting....

It would be a greater sacrilege to convert a restored gem like this well patina'd Dietz #2 D-Lite made of tin plated steel in Syracuse NY in June, 1922 into an electrical anything . . .



     than to stick a brass stand pipe with a socket, a curly CFL bulb and an ugly shade through a drilled hole in the handset and base of a NOS, unfaded, orchid AE 40 with all the chrome trim, a carry handle and a perfect handset extensicord.

Just my strong opinion of course. Feel free to differ.

[Alex G. Bell]

It would be a greater sacrilege to convert a restored gem like this well patina'd Dietz #2 D-Lite made of tin plated steel in Syracuse NY in June, 1922 into an electrical anything . . . than to stick a brass stand pipe with a socket, a curly CFL bulb and an ugly shade through a drilled hole in the handset and base of a NOS, unfaded, orchid AE 40 with all the chrome trim, a carry handle and a perfect handset extensicord.

Just my strong opinion of course. Feel free to differ.

Maybe it depends.  When I bought my house there was a converted oil lamp hanging by 4 lengths of thin brass chain from the dining room ceiling. 

It has an original white glass shade/diffuser hand painted with scenes of various colorful birds and 2 separated gold colored vinyl zip cord leads running down 2 of the chains to provide power to the socket, which was installed through the split wick opening.  So with gold zip cord wiring it could not have been electrified all that long before I came to own it: 70s or 80s I'd guess, but it was done by someone with a little taste.

There was a milk glass chimney installed which I guess was probably not original.  I used it for years but replaced it with clear glass when compact halogen 150W bulbs became unavailable because 100W is not enough, 150W standard bulbs won't fit through the milk glass chimney and I have yet to see a 150W equiv. LED bulb.  The clear glass kerosene reservoir and other original brass parts are intact. 

I don't know whether it was originally a chandelier or a table lamp, I suspect a chandelier.  It's most likely a genuine antique from the days of the Wild West.  What's done is done, but 30 years later it's still a joy daily to behold it, brightly lit in its current electrified form.  Much of its beauty would be lost with a dim kerosene flame if it had not been electrified.

[AL_as_needed]

For arguments sake, there are a slew of nice, cheap, Chinese made lanterns that would not be harmed (in terms of value) if a 1/2 hole was blasted through the tank and a light socket added. And I'm sure they would acquire that "vintage rustic shabby-chic" look if left to the elements for a day or so. 

Like with phones, we cannot always undo the sins of the past, or at least what we may now see as sins, but we should be mindful of what we do with pieces now. Not trying to demonize how anyone enjoys a particular lamp/lantern, just trying to point out that the days of the original barn-find 70+ year old lantern are becoming fast a rarity. It is quite the same with classic cars and so on.

But hey, different strokes for different folks....I'll just have to save all the old lanterns now ! (evil laugh) 

[twocvbloke]

For arguments sake, there are a slew of nice, cheap, Chinese made lanterns that would not be harmed (in terms of value) if a 1/2 hole was blasted through the tank and a light socket added. And I'm sure they would acquire that "vintage rustic shabby-chic" look if left to the elements for a day or so.

Kind of like this?:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16405.msg169985#msg169985

Though I will say, the LED bulbs I tried in it looked terrible!!

[AL_as_needed]

Haha, yes, like that. LEDs are hit or miss, at least with my own experience. I got a few for a WE Princess and they were either way way too bright....or didnt work at all...typical. 

[twocvbloke]

Yeah, there's a lot of LED bulbs at the moment that are hit & miss, I just got some more Cool-white LED filament bulbs from china, a frosted glass type that looks like a proper incandescent bulb, but, they're "dimmable", and they're annoying, they have a visible 50Hz flicker, and I'd have thought they'd use a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) setup to smooth out the light while being able to be dimmed & brightened, but no, they're dull and 50Hz flickery, might have to uncap one and see if it's hackable to make it smoother with a better power supply, don't need the dimming feature myself...

[Alex G. Bell]

I've been pretty satisfied with LED bulbs I bought at Ikea and name brand bulbs such as GE and Philips that I bought on sale, even clearance in some cases.  Some are dimmable and some are not.  I dim the dimmable ones. 

Flicker is most noticeable on lights that are in your peripheral vision field.  They're operating on 60Hz but I don't detect any perceptible flicker. 

[twocvbloke]

60Hz is better for LED lights that aren't well-smoothed, but being in the UK I have to use 50Hz (I have ways of attaining 60Hz, but, it's too fiddly!), and it's particularly annoying with LEDs as I'm quite sensitive to flicker and it drives me bonkers... 

[Alex G. Bell]

Will any of them work on DC?  Some switching converters rectify the incoming voltage first, then chop and convert it.  If the LED "ballasts" do, you could rectify and filter well.  OTOH, if they were already rectifying the flicker would probably be @ 100Hz.

[twocvbloke]

Yeah, they'll run on DC, but it has to be high enough voltage DC (close to what you're mains voltage is), I took one of the bulbs bases apart just now, and it's an AC-DC rectifier going through a current regulator to the LED filaments and no smoothing capacitor, so, how they can claim they're dimmable, I have no idea, unless they're claiming that through the fact there's no real electronics in there (such as a Switch-mode Power Supply) that would compensate for a lowered voltage (or chopped sinewave as most dimmers tended to be!)... 

And yes the rectified light would mean the LEDs are being powered at 100Hz, but LEDs tend not to be lit for the full peak due to forward voltage issues, so the flicker is more obvious...

[Alex G. Bell]

Yeah, they'll run on DC, but it has to be high enough voltage DC (close to what you're mains voltage is),

Of course!

I took one of the bulbs bases apart just now, and it's an AC-DC rectifier going through a current regulator to the LED filaments and no smoothing capacitor, so, how they can claim they're dimmable, I have no idea, unless they're claiming that through the fact there's no real electronics in there (such as a Switch-mode Power Supply) that would compensate for a lowered voltage (or chopped sinewave as most dimmers tended to be!)... 

Most dimmers use phase control, gating the triac on with some delay after the zero crossing of the line voltage.  But if there is nothing more in there than what you described the full LED current would be drawn from the AC line and something would be dissipating the line voltage less the total series string voltage of the LED cluster.  That would seem to produce a lot of heat.

I think the issue of whether they are dimmable or not is related to how they look electrically as a load to the dimmer, such as looking resistive so some current passes through the dimmer circuit to permit it to function before the triac is gated on and sufficient voltage is applied to the LEDs to reach their threshold and forward bias them.

And yes the rectified light would mean the LEDs are being powered at 100Hz, but LEDs tend not to be lit for the full peak due to forward voltage issues, so the flicker is more obvious...

Interesting!  How many actual LED elements do these things contain?