Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Technical "Stuff" => Topic started by: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 01:35:13 PM

Title: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 01:35:13 PM
Well, I just won a wonderful looking phone on Ebay.
But, it has a 4 prong adapter on the end. I was looking at Phoneco, and they seem to have 2 adapters:
http://www.phonecoinc.com/category.asp?map=1&hhrl=home&group=misc&gorl=group&category=Acc
the 318a or 318b. Which do you think?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 23, 2009, 02:11:31 PM
Either one should work.  Being the cheap guy that I am, I'd order a couple of the $6.00 ones instead of a $10.00 version.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 02:35:54 PM
Thanks! I was thinking the same thing.  ;D I wonder what the difference could be?
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Jim Mc on November 23, 2009, 02:48:39 PM
I'm using a jack similar to this for the hard wired phones.  http://tiny.cc/Mppzt I hard wired my phone into this jack, then I just use a modular connector from this jack to the wall jack.  These are going for $3-4 at Home Depot.  I guess if you wanted to keep the 4 prong plug it wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 23, 2009, 02:55:09 PM
Quote from: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 02:35:54 PM
Thanks! I was thinking the same thing.  ;D I wonder what the difference could be?

About $4.00 apiece  :)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 23, 2009, 03:01:35 PM
Most of the dollar stores around here sell phone jacks for $1.00 each.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Greg G. on November 23, 2009, 03:11:03 PM
Yes, check the Dollar Stores first.  They don't always have them though.  The one across the street from me only had the reverse type for use with a 4-prong jack.  Also try other places like Staples, Office Depot, Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, Fred Meyers.

I like the confusion over wording.  I would call those "4-prong to modular" because I'm thinking from the phone to the jack, but they word it the other way around because they're thinking from the jack to the phone.  Whatever.

Don't forget to factor in the shipping, which can nearly double the cost if you're only ordering one or two.  I priced the 318A one time, if I ordered 10 of them it would bring the price to $7.00 each.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 03:24:16 PM
Oh, thanks. I'll drop by some of the stores. I had no idea that these were available most places, still. One would think that not too many people used them anymore. Perhaps more people realize the beauty of these older phones!

I would have called them 4 prong to modular, also.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 23, 2009, 04:08:53 PM
nto,

What I usually do is connect the end of the phone cord to the terminals inside the new modular jack and use a short modular cord between that jack and one of the many that I have installed around my house.  Only one of the phones which I bought came with a 4-prong connector, and it was the cheap Asian type, so I had no interest in preserving it.  If you really want to keep the 4-prong connector with your phone, my solution would not be for you.

Larry
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 05:31:03 PM
Larry,
Thanks for letting me know what to look for. I think this may be original equipment, but, I'll see when I get the phone.  I'll just do as you say, if I find this to be a recent plug. But, I may need some advice on connecting the ends. If it is original, I thought I'd try to keep the plug uncompromised for the future.
BTW, how do you tell if the plug is Asian or original? I guess I ought to start with that question?
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 23, 2009, 06:16:57 PM
nto,

If it looks like cheap junk, usually ivory colored plastic, then it is not the original connector.  If you decide to use a modular jack, just connect the red wire from the phone to the red from the modular connector and the green to the green.  Depending on the type of phone and how the wires are connected inside of it, you may also want to connect the yellow to the green.  Take a look at how they are connected inside the current connector.  Even if you have the original 4-prong connector, you can remove it for now and put it back when you decide to sell the phone.

Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: ntophones on November 23, 2009, 06:31:54 PM
Thanks, Larry!
I will do that.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: bwanna on November 23, 2009, 07:56:29 PM
you can always install a 4prong jack.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 23, 2009, 07:58:12 PM
That would be too simple.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: rp2813 on November 29, 2009, 07:07:05 PM
When I need to make a hard-wired phone connect to a modular jack, I buy an after-market surface mount modular  jack and use it in reverse.  I hard-wire the phone's mounting cord to the jack, then plug a modular cord into it, and the other end of the modular cord plugs into the active jack on the wall or baseboard.  The surface mount type of jack I use has a clean back and looks like a small box, with mounting cord coming out one side and a modular receptacle on the other.  It basically functions like an extension of the modular cord receptacle you'd find on the back of a more modern modularized phone.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: ntophones on November 29, 2009, 08:02:51 PM
Thank you for sharing that!
I tried something else, but, I think I'm going to try that solution.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Dan on November 29, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
If my phones have a 4 pronger , I sometimes "modify" it. This works, and you can keep it original. People don't see how it is connected, only they hear it when ir rings...

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/wallphones005.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/wallphones004.jpg)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Craig T on March 08, 2010, 03:40:28 PM
Well after seeing that awesome board of wall jacks and plugs at the Southern California show, I dug out the handful of stuff I have to show. If any of you have any to show off, please post them.

Pic 1&2: coded a C7, this mod. adapter was given to lease customers.

Pic 3: this is a 505A. It is the only one I have. I am looking to buy a gray one if they make it.

Pic 4: WE 42A (painted white) and the WE 12E I bought the other day. I seen 4-6 of the 42A in the same building but they were painted white. I will have to see if they are a different color on the inside.


Pic 5: Some aftermarket 4 prong plugs with a modular plug built right in.

Pic 6: A hard wire to modular adapter by Archer.

Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: foots on May 14, 2010, 01:07:45 PM
  I should know this but, when installing a 4 prong connector onto a line cord, which wires go where?
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: JorgeAmely on May 14, 2010, 01:19:05 PM
Look closely around the screws of the 4 prong connector. They have little captions with the color names next to the screws.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: foots on May 14, 2010, 04:50:47 PM
  Jorge, the Taiwanese 4 prong I have doesn't have anything by the terminals. I did however remember that I have a couple other 4 prong connectors that did.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: JorgeAmely on May 14, 2010, 05:14:59 PM
As you look at the screws:

Upper Right = Red
Upper Left   = Green
Lower Right = Yellow
Lower Left   = Black

Cord entry at 6 o'clock position.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: foots on May 14, 2010, 11:16:23 PM
  Thanks Jorge. That's how I hooked it up - my SC 1243 is working fine.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: JorgeAmely on May 14, 2010, 11:38:10 PM
Anytime sir.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: pots-head on June 15, 2011, 12:31:29 PM
I found a source for 4-prong jacks - http://www.allentelproducts.com/catalog/dept_id_381/model_AT404B.htm - but does anyone know where I can get 4-prong plugs?  Not the modular-to-4-prong adapters, but the actual plugs themselves; either old or new.  I've had no luck.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 15, 2011, 01:02:40 PM
I don't know for sure, but you could try either Phonecoinc.com or oldphoneworks.com

I do know that phoneco sells a female 4-prong to male modular pigtail adapter.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: pots-head on June 15, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
Thanks! phonecoinc.com has a bunch.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: benkeys on July 09, 2012, 10:07:06 PM
I was looking at the 4 prong to modular adapters on eBay the other day and seen they were quite pricey.. Is there a reason they are so expensive? i'm just curious as i want to get one for my 1950's 500 some time down the line. When the time comes where is the best inexpensive place to get one?
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: RotarDad on July 10, 2012, 01:28:07 AM
Yes, they seem to be $12 or so on Ebay, but you'd think that this would be a $3 item.  I think the issue must be that they are made in low volume (not much demand when compared with modern phone plugs).  I decided to wait until I saw one attached to a phone I wanted on Ebay and bought mine that way.  The adapter was then essentially free, and I got to feel a bit smug in the process.... 8)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: benkeys on July 10, 2012, 03:31:25 AM
  Right, but i guess that is what happens when things are uncommon. I just do not see paying that much for one. I think i will just get some alligator clips and use them to attach 2 wires to the plug and hook it up direct with no plug. From what year to what year were the 4 prong plugs used on phones? roughly? I'm still learning about phones.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on July 10, 2012, 07:16:06 AM
Roughly 1931-1976.
They were originally used on 202s which required 4 wires to the anti-sidetone subset.
They were discontinued once modular jacks were standardized in 1976.

When modular phones were first used in certain areas, they were not intended to be moved from one outlet to another; rather, you were still supposed to pay extra for 4-prong jacks for that. However, once the modular jacks were standardized, I asked the service rep why last week the modular plugs were not to be moved from one room to another, but now it was OK, and she replied that the modular plugs were now made better. (Not).
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: G-Man on July 10, 2012, 07:22:34 AM
Simply check-out your local hardware store to see if they have 4-prong jacks in stock at a reasonable price. If so, find a line-cord with an RJ-11 plug on one end and spade terminals on the other. Connect it to the jack and you have an instant adapter for a price that is considerably less than what the eBay Pirates are attempting to extort from the general public!

Here are a couple of examples:

4 Prong Telephone Jack - $1.40
http://tinyurl.com/6o8m79l

Modular Cable – RJ11 Plug to Spade Lugs - $1.75
http://tinyurl.com/6ntoado
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: olderdude60 on July 10, 2012, 12:04:50 PM
Just as a thought - if you have a local Habitat ReStore - ours has a bunch of various phone stuff - also check Salvation Army or Goodwill!

Jim
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: benkeys on July 10, 2012, 01:38:29 PM
Wow 1931 to 1976.. I'm guessing my '72 554 probably had one originally.  I will check out hardware stores but i highly doubt they will have any plugs for an old phone. You would be lucky to find the common every day items there (every hardware store in town) that people need. We do have a habitat for humanity, but they usually do not have any phone stuff. Even if they had what i needed they would have about 5-8.00 on a piece like that, only bc its not a common every day item and they like to put high prices on odd things.. however whenever i get there i will check for phone connectors.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on July 10, 2012, 01:56:14 PM
There wouldn't have been a 4-prong plug on a 554 Wall Phone---those were hardwired and usually mounted on a plastic or wood backboard. The plugs are common as they are still attached to a lot of phones on ebay but the jacks are not as common because they were mostly replaced by modular jacks or in any case they would be in the houses and usually not removed with the phone. However, sometimes they are for sale with a phone. Phonecoinc.com also has them for $2.10 each.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: jsowers on July 10, 2012, 02:06:14 PM
I have a 554 from 8-58 with a matching 1958 light beige mounting cord and a 4-prong 283B plug on it. I thought it was very odd when I got it and still do, because 554s are not portable. But it was original to the phone. I think it may have been used in a pre-wired home when the jack wasn't at the right place. Normally this would not be the case.

Ben, you could also remove the 4-prong plug and install a modular wall jack (a female jack that surface mounts to the wall). They make jacks small enough so they're almost the size of a 4-prong plug. Attach red to the red screw, green to green and yellow to yellow. Then use a regular modular phone cord to hook it up. If you have a Princess that needs yellow and black for the lamp voltage, then be sure to use a 4-conductor modular cable and not a 2-conductor.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: gands-antiques on October 13, 2012, 10:16:43 PM
Looking for 4 Prong Female to Male Modular Plug Adapters like the ones in the pictures.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Phonesrfun on October 13, 2012, 11:07:31 PM
Although not the exact model, you can get one here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370373885982?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

This is not my store, but I have purchased these and they work well.

Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: gands-antiques on October 14, 2012, 09:02:20 AM
Bill,

Thanks for the information.

I have seen these with the short mod wire.

I don't remember where I got the one in the pictures but I would like to find some like in the pictures if I can.
I really them because they don't require the external wire.

===================
I did find these adapters.... a good way to go from hard wire to modular.

SUTTLE
Non-modular to Modular Retrofit Adapter
Part number N152MRL - 4      ($2.75 each)
Non-modular to modular adapter, four screw terminals to one 4-conductor plug

Contact Information
Customer Service   
Phone:
800-852-8662
320-848-6711
Fax:
320-848-6218
Email:
suttlesales@commsysinc.com   

Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: AE_Collector on October 14, 2012, 11:56:45 AM
Those hard wire to mod adapters could cause problems trying to plug into some surface mounted mod jacks. Some flush jacks as well if in a plate combined with a data or coax jack.

The 4 prong to mod adapters could be problematic on some multiple jacks as well. The ones that bill posted are much more universally going to fit into any jack. But they want $11.50 each for them! WoW!

Terry
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Dennis Markham on October 14, 2012, 12:35:58 PM
That adapter that Bill posted is a little bit cheaper at Phone Co.  I don't know how the shipping compares.  Here's a link:

http://tinyurl.com/8mjyf9b

I have been lucky enough on a couple of occasions to purchase a phone (off eBay) that had one of these adapters attached.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: paul on October 14, 2012, 04:56:27 PM
You could take a small bit of modular line cord and a 4-prong jack for some DIY converter crafting. Get good enough and sell to people on ebay at an obscene profit!  http://www.ebay.com/itm/120989315703 :D
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: twocvbloke on October 14, 2012, 07:08:15 PM
Quote from: paul on October 14, 2012, 04:56:27 PM
You could take a small bit of modular line cord and a 4-prong jack for some DIY converter crafting.

Almost how I did it this week, minus the socket... :D
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: benkeys on October 20, 2012, 06:45:36 AM
You can always remove the plug and hard wire it to the screws on a modular jack. Once wired you are good to go. If it is not going to be where the main jack is, just wire it as before then take a modular cord or hard wire and plug it in or wire it up to the main jack. If using the modular cord remember to get a splitter.  Either way will work well if you do not want to pay the high price for the adapter. 
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on October 20, 2012, 01:50:36 PM
Dennis, "thisundthat5hnq" is the ebay name for Phoneco.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Dennis Markham on October 20, 2012, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on October 20, 2012, 01:50:36 PM
Dennis, "thisundthat5hnq" is the ebay name for Phoneco.

I hadn't noticed the seller's name on Bill's link to the eBay listing.  I have seen before that thisundthatthing sells their products cheaper on their web site than via eBay.  Perhaps they make up the difference in shipping costs.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on October 20, 2012, 07:05:16 PM
I haven't checked the shipping, but Ebay takes about 12% (seller's fees + paypal fees).
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: RotarDad on November 04, 2012, 01:35:49 AM
I was hoping to get some input on 4-prong plug history.  My goal is to put the correct era plug on my phones (mostly WE500s 50's - early 60's).  I've noted 3 main types of plugs:

1) 283B with no "ears".  I have one on a '55 500.  I think this one may be bakelite.

2) 283B with "ears".  I've seen two varieties.  The older ones have small nuts which thread on each prong to secure them to the base.  The newer ones have the prongs molded into the plastic base.

3) 505A round plug.  I've seen two varieties here also: with and without the "Bell System Property - Not for Sale" notation.  I know the "not for sale" was '68 or so, and too new for my phones.

I have two questions:

1) What are the date ranges for these plugs, including thoughts on the nuts versus molded prongs on the "ear" 283B.

2) How are they supposed to be attached?  Most 500 line cords have a strain relief with two tabs that seem to fit nicely in a 505 plug, but I have older 500s that have the 283B plug and the line cord strain relief is a loose fit at best.  Some non-500 line cords have a screw-eye strain relief that attaches to a screw in the 283B, which is much better.  What was the WE plan here?

Thank you!

Paul
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on November 04, 2012, 08:13:45 AM
4-prong jacks and plugs were introduced around 1931 when the anti-sidetone subsets were introduced which required 4 conductors from the 202 or 151AL. The earliest plugs had metal housings painted brown or ivory.

BSP section 461-630-100 Issue 8, July 1974 (page 18-19) shows how to attach the cord to the plug on 283B and 505A plugs. This is in the TCI library.

"3.02  The 283B (MD) plug (Fig. 32, 33, 34, 35) is
         a 2-piece, 4-contact plug of molded plastic
in colors to match telephone set colors as shown
in Table C. The mounting cord is secured by either
a wing band inserted into a slot in the cover or
an S hook or flat eyelet stay band secured with a
self-tapping screw packed with the plug."

The 283B was already rated Manufacture Discontinued in 1974. In Issue 5, June 1967, the 404B jack is MD, but not the 283B plug or 549A jack.

A friend had an extension phone installed in early 1965. He called to tell me it was a black 500 with a clear finger wheel and that a round jack had been installed. So I guess that was about the time frame for the introduction of 505A plug and 549A jack as well as the 9C dial.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on November 04, 2012, 04:33:57 PM
202s and 302s were provided with special cords with eyelets instead of spade lugs on the plug end. The cords were furnished with the 283B plug already installed. The D4W cord was used on a 202 (instead of a D4U) and  a D3AM?? (instead of D3AL) on a 302.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: jsowers on November 04, 2012, 07:43:09 PM
The "wing band" is their term for the strain relief at the end of the standard 500 set mounting cord. It does have "wings" on it. The 283B plug has a hole in the prong side and a hole in the cap side that correspond to the points on the wing band and that anchors the cord in the plug. It's a fairly secure fit if you get it right.

You have to bend the spades about 90 degrees to get them under the screws and to keep the restraint from shorting out the spades. Then rest the restraint in the hole on the prong side of the plug. Then place the cap on and hope you get the other end in the hole in the cap.

It may take several tries. You'll get the hang of it.

I agree with David that 1965 is a good starting point for the 505A. I don't know when the "ear" version of the 283B started, but 1955 or 56 would be a guess. I haven't paid that much attention to the molded vs. screwed prongs to know when that changed. Many times the installer used what was on his truck, so we see all kinds of combinations. I've seen earless ones on 1958 phones that I'm sure were original because the seller said it belonged to her grandmother.

The painted or colored 283B is another variation. I think they were circa 1960-65 or so. They're sometimes seen on the early 701 and 702 Princesses.

A lot of people like the 505A because the spade prongs don't have to be bent. But it looks odd on a 1950s phone. I appreciate your attention to detail and historical accuracy and trying to use the right thing. I try to do the same thing, but it's not easy sometimes.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: RotarDad on November 05, 2012, 01:12:54 AM
Thanks David and Jonathan for the great info!  That helps narrow it down quite a bit.  I didn't pay any attention to the plugs initially, just tossing them aside since I needed a modular jack box at the end to conveniently use the phones.  Over time, I've started to pay more attention to making things period-correct in terms of plugs, dial cards, etc.   The WE500 didn't really change dramatically over the years - it's the details that make the difference.  I appreciate your digging up (BSP and memory) the info!
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Sargeguy on February 27, 2013, 11:45:48 PM
This is an essential piece of equipment for any of you who like to keep your 4-prong plug phones authentic yet still plug them into the 4-prong jack you have installed on your wall.  Or maybe you have a flush-mounted jack that you want to transform into a wall-wart.  This is the convenient solution for you:  It's the revolutionary 4-prong to 4-prong adapter:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OoJCqWAZr2o/US7Kt2C-9sI/AAAAAAAAZXg/vMdIXU_9cd4/w748-h756-p-o-k/Telephone%2B20120221_8863DSC_1377.JPG)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 27, 2013, 11:49:52 PM
Ha ha.

That would be cute, but notice the exit hole for a cord.  This allows you to plug a phone into the 4-prong jack, and then piggy-back another one in on top of that.  Kind of a splitter of sorts, only piggy-back style.

Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Sargeguy on February 27, 2013, 11:52:50 PM
It took me a couple minutes to figure it out!
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 27, 2013, 11:55:15 PM
I had to stare at it too.  It didn't just reach out and grab me.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Sargeguy on February 27, 2013, 11:56:57 PM
Probably for a fax machine!   ::)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on September 21, 2013, 10:31:35 PM
Quote from: pots-head on June 15, 2011, 12:31:29 PM
I found a source for 4-prong jacks - http://www.allentelproducts.com/catalog/dept_id_381/model_AT404B.htm - but does anyone know where I can get 4-prong plugs?  Not the modular-to-4-prong adapters, but the actual plugs themselves; either old or new.  I've had no luck.

Thanks!


Instead of $7.97, the same AT404B jack is $1.55 here:

http://www.allentel.com/store/en/allentelsc/Telephone-Jack-Assembly

However, even though the description says it is used with the AT283B plug, that  plug is apparently discontinued. And Suttle Equipment used to make both the 283B and the "newer" 505A style, but they no longer offer them.

In any case, the plugs are much easier to find than the jacks. The plugs are often found on phones but the jacks got left behind (on the wall).

The 283B was introduced around 1931 when 4-conductor cords were used for 202s. The 505A was introduced around 1965.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on September 22, 2013, 04:06:40 AM
Pictures of 4-prong jacks and plugs:
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Spanish_phones on December 02, 2013, 04:02:38 PM
Here in Spain is really difficult to find the 4 prong plugs, and AL my WE phones were with wires but without the plug, so I converted them with wall phone connectors or little connection boxes

If anyone has extra 4plugs (male and female), I'm interested for my black 1960 500, my red ITT 1973 500, and a red Ericofon. ;) I have 4 AE starlites, but I don't know if they used to mount 4 prong plugs :)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: AE_Collector on December 12, 2013, 04:22:57 PM
Hi Spanish_phones.

Where are you in Spain? I was just in Cartagena and was very impressed with the city.

For the most part, 4 prong plugs and jacks weren't used on phones in North America. They were just used for "portable phones" that could be moved from room to room (for an additional monthly rental fee).  Most phones were hard wired to connecting blocks.

AE phones were sometimes wired to 4 Prong Plugs and Jacks as well.

Terry
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Spanish_phones on December 12, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
AE_Collector, I live in Madrid, the capital of Spain. I'm glad you've visited Spain! Cartagena is a nice city, but has nothing to do with big cities! jijji

I see your point. Here in Spain was really similar: the old ones were hard wired to the wall trough connecting blocks. Since the 60's, until RJ-11 was implanted, you could have both jacks or connecting blocks, just as you said: for changing the telephones from one room to another.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: twocvbloke on December 13, 2013, 04:40:14 AM
Here in the UK before we got the Plug 431 (standard BT plug) when British Telecom came to be, phones were also hardwired in place for most people, but you could also get phones wired with a Plug 420 which you could connect to Jack No. 95a, for one phone, they only needed to wire up a standard phone with an appropriate line cable & plug, and fit a permanently wired bellset (this acted like the master socket we have today) with the ringers in phone and bellset wired in series so the line didn't appear "disconnected" (as in removed, not on-hook) to the exchange or to a GPO guy up a nearby telegraph pole when you were moving the phone from one room to another... :)

Though adding a 2nd phone to the mix just complicates matters with additional switches and wiring... :D
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: m1898 on December 16, 2013, 07:27:26 PM
Poplar1, the fourth plug in post #58 looks exactly like the one I just got off ebay, complete with wires hooked to it.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm             Jim
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: jeremylivin on January 13, 2014, 07:34:55 PM
Probably a silly question, but my 302 has a 4 prong plug, and I bought the 4 prong to RJ-11 adapter but I'm not sure how to plug it in.

There are 4 possible ways... Any help?
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: AE_Collector on January 13, 2014, 08:52:44 PM
The prongs have slightly different spacing so that there is only one way to plug it into a jack. Some have a moulded in "line" to indicate how to line the plug up with the jack.

Terry
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: JimH on January 13, 2014, 11:44:08 PM
With all this talk about Jacks, it got me thinking back to when we had the "hardwired" 500 in our kitchen.  I remember asking the telephone man why it didn't have a plug on it, when the 500 in my parent's bedroom did.  It was wired right in and you couldn't unplug it.   He told me the phone company liked to have at least one phone hardwired, but the others could have plugs.  I guess this was so you couldn't have all of your phones unplugged, thereby missing calls.  Obviously they abandoned this thinking when everything went modular.  I also remember being in PhoneCenter stores, they had modular adapters where the wires had color-coded connectors that snapped over the screws on the 42A connecting block, and the customers were told to cut the wires of an existing telephone and bring it in.  This was to eliminate an installer visit when establishing new service.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Greg G. on January 14, 2014, 03:14:59 AM
Quote from: JimH on January 13, 2014, 11:44:08 PM
With all this talk about Jacks, it got me thinking back to when we had the "hardwired" 500 in our kitchen.  I remember asking the telephone man why it didn't have a plug on it, when the 500 in my parent's bedroom did.  It was wired right in and you couldn't unplug it.   He told me the phone company liked to have at least one phone hardwired, but the others could have plugs.  I guess this was so you couldn't have all of your phones unplugged, thereby missing calls.  ...

This sounded familiar, I remember reading a story about the requirement for one hardwired phone in the book The Rape of Ma Bell (Chapter 14, page 163 of the hard copy, pages 100-101 of the PDF version):

QuoteTrue Story Number Two.
A member of Fred's family had to reach him, urgently. The person tried calling. No answer. No answer for hours. The caller was sure Fred was home and became concerned - concerned enough to get into his car and drive an hour and a half to Fred's house. There he found an unhurt, healthy Fred. What had happened? Hadn't he heard the phone ringing?

No, Fred hadn't because both of his phones had been unplugged.

It was all kind of silly, in a way. Fred had a large house with modular phone jacks in every room, but only two phone instruments. Fred and his wife would move the phones from room to room, depending on where they wanted to make a call. On this particular day, each had started to move a phone, were distracted, and didn't plug either back in, leaving them completely cut off from the telephone network and from the rest of their family.

Silly in a way, but serious as well. Fred's relative had to get in touch with him. It wasn't frivolous. It was important. Back in the old days, when Ma Bell owned all terminal equipment, this situation could not have happened. Then Ma Bell required the customer to have at least one telephone or ringer permanently wired. He could have as many jacks or portable phones as desired, but somewhere a ring had to be heard.

Back then Fred's service was protected and the entire network was better for Fred being a permanent part of it. That was back then. Here and now, Fred has the luxury of designing his own system - and forgetting to plug in his phones.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: twocvbloke on January 14, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
I can understand the reasoning behind hardwiring at least one phone, I prefer to have at least one wired phone always plugged in, even if I ignore it cos it's never for me... :)

As far as I'm aware, the reasoning behind hardwiring is that from a linesmans' point of view (or these days, an automated test facility, such as BT's), they can measure the resistance leading to a customer's home before sending out an engineer, if there's infinite resistance, then they assume the line is broken somewhere, these days they tend to put a 0.5REN equivalent resistor in wherever the line terminates (be it a NID or Demarc over there, or a Master socket over here), so there's always a load on the line to say "this line is connected" when the line is tested remotely, whether or not there's a phone connected to the line in the customers' premises... :)

Of course, there are some people who just wish to be left alone for the day (so they can get on with household stuff, or work on papers, or build sculptures and whatnot), so they unplug their phone(s), leaving them without any ringing to disturb them... :)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: WesternElectricBen on January 18, 2014, 11:41:02 AM
Quote from: JimH on January 13, 2014, 11:44:08 PM
With all this talk about Jacks, it got me thinking back to when we had the "hardwired" 500 in our kitchen.  I remember asking the telephone man why it didn't have a plug on it, when the 500 in my parent's bedroom did.  It was wired right in and you couldn't unplug it.   He told me the phone company liked to have at least one phone hardwired, but the others could have plugs.  I guess this was so you couldn't have all of your phones unplugged, thereby missing calls.  Obviously they abandoned this thinking when everything went modular.  I also remember being in PhoneCenter stores, they had modular adapters where the wires had color-coded connectors that snapped over the screws on the 42A connecting block, and the customers were told to cut the wires of an existing telephone and bring it in.  This was to eliminate an installer visit when establishing new service.

What you are talking about (phone center jacks) reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IphPS58ZUc8

Ben
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: JimH on January 18, 2014, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on January 18, 2014, 11:41:02 AM
Quote from: JimH on January 13, 2014, 11:44:08 PM
With all this talk about Jacks, it got me thinking back to when we had the "hardwired" 500 in our kitchen.  I remember asking the telephone man why it didn't have a plug on it, when the 500 in my parent's bedroom did.  It was wired right in and you couldn't unplug it.   He told me the phone company liked to have at least one phone hardwired, but the others could have plugs.  I guess this was so you couldn't have all of your phones unplugged, thereby missing calls.  Obviously they abandoned this thinking when everything went modular.  I also remember being in PhoneCenter stores, they had modular adapters where the wires had color-coded connectors that snapped over the screws on the 42A connecting block, and the customers were told to cut the wires of an existing telephone and bring it in.  This was to eliminate an installer visit when establishing new service.

What you are talking about (phone center jacks) reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IphPS58ZUc8

Ben
That's exactly it!  Those snap on connectors remind me of little 505A four-prong plugs!
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: twocvbloke on January 18, 2014, 08:21:52 PM
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on January 18, 2014, 11:41:02 AMWhat you are talking about (phone center jacks) reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IphPS58ZUc8

Ben

Makes me wonder how many DIYers snipped all the wires and found they had no service when they snapped on those clips... ;D
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Scotophor on April 02, 2014, 04:26:46 AM
Quote from: AE_Collector on January 13, 2014, 08:52:44 PMThe prongs have slightly different spacing so that there is only one way to plug it into a jack. Some have a moulded in "line" to indicate how to line the plug up with the jack.

Terry
Be careful though, sometimes the "key" line is moulded in the wrong place! It should be on the opposite side away from the pair of prongs with the narrowest spacing. However, I have a "4-prong to 4-prong adapter" (piggyback plug) similar to the one Sargeguy showed above (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1804.msg95235#msg95235), made in Japan, with the key line in the wrong position.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on May 21, 2014, 08:36:42 AM
No doubt the 404A jack and 283A plug appeared c. 1931 along with 684As and 202s.

From TCI library:

1934 article in the Bell Labs Record about 4-prong plugs and jacks:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/11289-34jul-blr-p343-jacks-and-plugs-for-portable-telephones

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BSP C36.201 Issue 1 Feb.1932==Jacks and Plugs for Inside Locations:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/4597-c36-201-i1-feb32-jacks-plugs-inside-loc

Includes 403A flush mounted and 404A surface mounted jacks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacks and Plugs--Installation

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_view/4636-c36-245-i1-feb32-jacksandplugstypesforinsidelocations-installation
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: unbeldi on May 21, 2014, 12:14:37 PM
Here is a time line I have been maintaining for the type 283 four-prong plugs.


==Time line of the 283-type plug==

*1931: 283A plug introduced for 202 AST telephones with 684A subsets. It was a four contact plug that had indentations which served as a grip when pulling the plug from a jack. To facilitate the connection of cord conductors, color designations are stamped adjacent to the terminals of these new types of plugs.

*1932 February: BSP C36.201 formally describes plugs and jacks for portable telephones. Available colors of 283A: black (-3) and old brass (-6).

*1934: A BLR article discusses the development of connectors for portable telephones (BLR 12(7), July 1934, p.343).

*1935: Catalog No. 9: 283A plugs were furnished with 202 desk sets upon order with a D4T type cord of corresponding color. Standard issue color was D4T-9 and 283A-3 plug.

*1935-1939: transition from 283A to 283B plug. The 283B plug has an external rim, mid-surface, around the plug, rather then indentations, to provide friction for pulling it from a socket.

*1939: Catalog No. 10 shows 283B plugs in colors ivory (-4), old brass (-6), and brown (-9).

*1950: Catalog No.11: ivory (-4), old-brass (-6), and brown (-9) colors available. Used with cords D2E, D3AM, D3AP, D4W, D4AJ.

*1950s: 283B plug is modified to have the pins molded into the plastic, rather than secured with a nut.

*1957: The Graybar catalog 12-T shows 283B plugs in ivory (-4) and brown (-9) only. Still has old-style grip lines (no 'ears').

*late 50s: The mid-surface rim is changed to 'ears' on two sides to provide grips, and the cord exit is open (U-shaped) to avoid having to thread the cord through the exit hole, thus the cover simply slides onto the base plate.

*1962: A 1966 New York Telephone supply catalog lists 283B-42 (beige), -50 (ivory), and -54 (brown) colors, as of 5/62 (page date). colors -50 and -54 supersede -4 and -9, respectively.

*1967: Available colors: black (-3), Green (-51), Yellow (-56), White (-58), Pink (-59), Lt. Beige (-60), Lt. Gray (-61), Aqua Blue (-62), and Turquoise (-64). Usage is documented with D3BP, D4BK, D3BU, D4BP cords. (BSP 461-630-105 Issue 1, February 1967).   The 505A type plug is described and available for the same function. It has better features, including screw-less connection of spade terminals, and a cord fastener. The 505A may have appeared in 1965, acc. to collector reports.

*1969: The 283B plug is listed MD (BSP 461-630-105 Issue 2, February 1969).

*Later BSPs still mention the 283B (MD), if only in a list without discussion.

*1983 (but probably even earlier): The 505A plug is listed MD (BSP 461-630-100 Issue 12).

[other collectors helped in providing some details and references.]
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: unbeldi on May 21, 2014, 12:28:12 PM
Quote from: unbeldi on May 21, 2014, 12:14:37 PM

*1962: A 1966 New York Telephone supply catalog lists 283B-42 (beige), -50 (ivory), and -54 (brown) colors, as of 5/62 (page date). colors -50 and -54 supersede -4 and -9, respectively.

The color -42, formally described as "beige", is a curiously strange color not often found. Here is a picture of what it looks like.  [color code was confirmed by consultation with another collector who owns the NYT catalog.]

AFAIK, the color -42 was used only for wiring and 2012A transformers (until June 1968, 501-136-100 Issue 3)
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Doug Rose on May 21, 2014, 07:51:30 PM
if you need one, I have one for sale in this group....Doug

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291149879018
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: tallguy58 on June 10, 2014, 05:09:04 PM
Is there such thing as a modular adapter that allows you to screw two spade connectors to it?

I have a two conductor line cord coming out of a phone and need an adapter so that I can plug in into the wall.

Any ideas??
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: twocvbloke on June 10, 2014, 05:32:06 PM
A mini surface-mount RJ11 wall socket, used in reverse, so you wire the phone to the socket, and then have a modular cable run from the socket to the wall, easy... :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380908667973
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: LarryInMichigan on June 10, 2014, 06:25:13 PM
Quote from: twocvbloke on June 10, 2014, 05:32:06 PM
A mini surface-mount RJ11 wall socket, used in reverse, so you wire the phone to the socket, and then have a modular cable run from the socket to the wall, easy... :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380908667973

I used to buy these all the time at local dollar stores, but most of the store have recently replaced them with the type which consists of a four terminal mounting block and a crew on cover.  The replacement type is not nearly as suitable for this use.

Larry
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: tallguy58 on June 10, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
Good idea.  Thanks
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: princessphone on June 10, 2014, 10:43:01 PM
For what it's worth. Using these wall mounts (jacks) in reverse will work fine if the phone is not polarity sensitive. However the polarity of the wires may end up being reversed.
Rewiring my house I used a few of these jacks in reverse in order to simplify things with expansion boards, filters, junction boxes etc. Didn't realize that these little guys can reverse the polarity. This really messed my mind.
Best regards, John DeJonge 
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: LarryInMichigan on June 10, 2014, 11:06:05 PM
If the wires are in the right places, these jacks will not change the polarity.  I expect that most technicians/electricians these days do not pay any attention to the polarity when installing phone wiring because the polarity has not mattered to new phones for quite a few years now.

Larry
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: poplar1 on June 10, 2014, 11:10:42 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on June 10, 2014, 11:06:05 PM
If the wires are in the right places, these jacks will not change the polarity.  I expect that most technicians/electricians these days do not pay any attention to the polarity when installing phone wiring because the polarity has not mattered to new phones for quite a few years now.

Larry

The wall jack by definition is the reverse of the 623 jack inside a modular phone, because the line cord plugs are mirror image of each other. So when you use one of these biscuit jacks as an adaptor, you have to reverse the polarity of the line cord, i.e., put the red spade tip wire on the green terminal of the jack, and the green wire on the red terminal.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: princessphone on June 10, 2014, 11:21:52 PM
Thanks Poplar1. John
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Babybearjs on June 29, 2014, 08:10:19 AM
.....and I thought I was the only one who used this idea......
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: andre_janew on November 01, 2014, 06:44:00 PM
A long time ago, one could find a modular plug in various types of stores that one could use to replace a 4 prong plug.  All that was needed was a simple screwdriver.  Nowadays,  where can one find such a modular plug?  What does one do when all they have are three spade terminals at the end of the line cord?
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: paul-f on November 02, 2014, 08:51:40 AM
See this topic:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12065.0
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Dominic_ContempraPhones on July 04, 2017, 11:05:27 PM
All classical RJs flip the polarity -- they're like ethernet x-over cables.  BRGY (jack side) to YGRB (phone side) on fully modular, so you have to keep track.  Even a coupler or extension cord will reverse.

Why the heck did WE do that? ... it's not like phones could talk to each other without a switch in between.  It was a real pain.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: Alex G. Bell on July 05, 2017, 12:26:55 AM
Quote from: Dominic_ContempraPhones on July 04, 2017, 11:05:27 PM
All classical RJs flip the polarity -- they're like ethernet x-over cables.  BRGY (jack side) to YGRB (phone side) on fully modular, so you have to keep track.  Even a coupler or extension cord will reverse.

Why the heck did WE do that? ... it's not like phones could talk to each other without a switch in between.  It was a real pain.
I agree that it was a dumb move that has caused no end of confusion.  The reason they did it was to facilitate mfr of flat cords.  Flat cords have a rib along one side.  The plugs are installed with the latching key facing the rib on both ends since otherwise the person assembling the cord would have to remember to do the two ends differently.  Given the monotony of the job there probably would be lots of errors.  So it's the flat cords which inherently flip polarity, requiring mirror image jacks on the telephone base and the wall. 

Most modular round cords do not, although in some cases there are versions as well which do e.g. the very widely used D8W used on Merlin sets does not flip polarity but there is also a D8AA (IIRC) which does.

Properly made cord couplers also flip polarity so that when multiple flat cords which flip polarity are connected end to end through the coupler there will be an odd number of reversals and a net reversal end-end.  But many of the cord couplers on the market today are produced by shoddy mfrs who have failed to maintain this standard.  Properly made extension cords with a male and female end also do not flip polarity since they have a male and female end but there surely is junk out there too.
Title: Re: Modular Adapters and 4 Prong Plugs/Jacks for Spade Cords
Post by: thomas13202 on December 11, 2018, 02:39:51 AM
when my mom had her house the phone company finally installed surface mount modular jacks and gave my mom phones that had modular connector on them. my mom had a tendency to walk around with the phone while talking especially the one in the kitchen. when the cord broke inside the modular plug or the clip to hold the modular cord in the jack broke on the modular plug i just removed the modular jack cover and used the wiring block to mount a spade to modular cord. the spade lugs connected to the jack and modular plug to the phone. at that time the cord and non modular jack cover was available at the local radio shack if i recall correctly where i bought it. this must have been around 1980 as it was before att was broke up. dont recall having a problem with the cord breaking at the jack after that. if my mom had owned the phone i would have simply used spade lug to spade lug cord and pushed out the modular connectors or drilled out the modular connectors in the phone. didnt want to modify something that belonged to the phone company though in case they desided to sue me.

for antique phones it is always best to hard wire them. you can get the necessary 42a block at phoneco. just change the jacks in your house to a surface mount 42a block and you are good to go. if you want to hook up a dsl modem or answering machine a modular to spade lug cord works great. connect the spade lugs to the jack and the modular end to the modern equipment. with dsl a whole house dsl filter installed at the nid would be necessary for this hookup. green and red go from the dsl side of the filter and yellow and black from the telephone side of the filter so make sure your jacks are wired accordingly.