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Crimper for Spade Lugs

Started by HarrySmith, January 07, 2011, 09:28:34 AM

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TelePlay

Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 27, 2022, 04:23:31 PMDo you know what the part number is for your old RadioShack brand crimper?

I just looked at my crimper and there is not part number on it, anywhere, just Taiwan and the die sizes.

MaximRecoil

Quote from: TelePlay on August 28, 2022, 08:35:50 PMI just looked at my crimper and there is not part number on it, anywhere, just Taiwan and the die sizes.

Thanks for checking. Does it say "Kronus" on it like the one I just ordered from eBay?

TelePlay

No, nothing other than "Taiwan" and the numbers for the die sizes.

I see some on eBay have "Cutter" instead of Taiwan but I assume whoever ordered several gross imported of these asked to have that on them instead of Taiwan.

Seems the same basic tool with different branding.

MaximRecoil

Quote from: TelePlay on August 28, 2022, 09:36:55 PMI see some on eBay have "Cutter" instead of Taiwan but I assume whoever ordered several gross imported of these asked to have that on them instead of Taiwan.

The "cutter" ones probably weren't made in Taiwan. Taiwan-made stuff tends to be higher quality and more expensive to manufacture than stuff that's made in mainland China. My other RadioShack branded tools, such as my modular crimpers and coaxial cable strippers, were made in Taiwan too.

MaximRecoil

Do piercing spade terminals work well with solid-core wire? The wiring that goes to the modular jacks in my house is solid-core and doesn't have any spade terminals. Instead, the ends are stripped, bent into hook shape and screwed down in the screw terminals. Except for the wall phone jack in the kitchen; that has punch-down block terminals, which is perfect for solid-core wire.

HarrySmith

If done properly you would probably get a good connection but the hook shapes work fine. There is no question of the connection when you do it that way.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

TelePlay

On solid wire, I strip off a piece of insulation about the length of the part of the spade lug that captures the wire, bend it back over the insulation and crimp the lug over that.

In the past, I had a few solid wire lugs fail (shorted) because the piercing points missed the conductor.

Never a failure using the above technique and I use it on both solid and stranded wire.

Bending bare copper around a terminal screw is fine in a wall Jack or the like but I find it highly unprofessional to do that inside a telephone, be it a D1, 302, 500, AE 40, SC, stick base, subset or anything else.

Not only does it look cheap, and is not the way the manufacturer did it, but the use of a spade lug over the wire insulation gives the connection more strength, especially with solid conductors which can snap off with too much flexing.

And the spade lug is always a tighter connection.

Only takes a couple of cents and a minute or two to do it bench professionally. Techs in the field probably didn't have the time to play with a crimper and lugs but no excuse for not using lugs on a workbench restoration.

MaximRecoil

Quote from: HarrySmith on August 29, 2022, 03:08:09 PMIf done properly you would probably get a good connection but the hook shapes work fine. There is no question of the connection when you do it that way.

Yeah, these jacks were installed by the Bell System (originally as plain junction blocks, which were converted to modular jacks in the '80s), so they must not have used any spade terminals. I don't mind the hook shape method but it gets bulky doing it that way if you have a few connections going on. The Bell System used overkill wire (it's at least 20 AWG for each conductor), plus there are the spades from the modular jack wires on the same screw terminals, plus I have 22 AWG solid wire connected to the same screw terminals as well for my payphone's line cord. I could just barely get all those in there, and now I want to add another modular jack that's closer to my WE 500 that's on my end table, and I'll be using solid 22 AWG for that too. I don't think I'll be able to fit all that in there without spade terminals.

What I could do is: strip a small section of the solid wire and then crimp around the insulation and solder the bare section of wire to the bottom of the spade terminal, like this:

TelePlay

Or just back it out a bit so the solder would contact all sides if the crimp channel and the wire. I don't think I have ever seen a crimp that did not fully encapsulate the wire, even when doubling back the bare conductors (except for old cloth tinsel conductors).

Soldering is good but tricky and takes a lot more time (and won't work on tinsel).

And, wrapping one solid conductor around a screw terminal would work but putting 2 or 3 on one terminal would seem highly unstable, a dicey connection, with temperature changes and ringer vibration over time. Three spade lugs on one terminal is relatively easy to do.

I can't recall seeing more than 2 on a factory wired terminal (networks have 2 terminals strapped together when 3 or 4 conductors are used).

MaximRecoil

Quote from: TelePlay on August 29, 2022, 05:10:18 PMOr just back it out a bit so the solder would contact all sides if the crimp channel and the wire.

Yeah, that's what I'll probably do.

QuoteI don't think I have ever seen a crimp that did not fully encapsulate the wire,

The only reason it doesn't in the image I posted is because I used the stock photo from Digi-Key to make it, and it's a photo of an uncrimped spade.

QuoteSoldering is good but tricky and takes a lot more time (and won't work on tinsel).

I worked in a PCB factory for about two years soldering thousands of joints per night, and I have the same Metcal STSS-002 soldering station at home that we were issued there (it's excellent for small joints when using the e.g., STTC-126 tip cartridge; relatively big ones too for that matter). I wouldn't want to solder a terminal that's crimped onto tinsel or stranded wire anyway, because it defeats the purpose of wire like that, which is to be flexible without breaking. You could get away with it I guess if only dabbing a tiny amount of solder onto the end so that it doesn't wet all the way down through the crimp barrel and into the free-hanging wire strands.

Just out of curiosity though, why can't you solder tinsel? What's it made of?

QuoteAnd, wrapping one solid conductor around a screw terminal would work but putting 2 or 3 on one terminal would seem highly unstable, a dicey connection, with temperature changes and ringer vibration over time. Three spade lugs on one terminal is relatively easy to do.

That's what I don't like about it on this modular jack here in the living room. There are a couple of washers on each screw so you can sandwich each wire between washers, which helps with stability (I've never had a connection problem so far, and it's been like that for many years), but I still don't like it. Spades are better for stacking, and they also have a lot more surface area in contact with the screw terminal than a bare solid wire does.

TelePlay

The way tinsel wire is made, the electrical conductors intermixed with fabric threads that make up the tinsel, the metal tinsel just doesn't hold solder.

About 4 years ago, I came up with a way to solder splice two tinsel conductors together.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=20752.0

MaximRecoil

Quote from: TelePlay on August 29, 2022, 07:20:38 PMAbout 4 years ago, I came up with a way to solder splice two tinsel conductors together.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=20752.0

Nice. I've done the same thing with stuff that I couldn't solder directly to. About 10 years ago I did it to fix all the gauges in my '69 Dodge. They work via a hair-thin nichrome wire wrapped, in coil fashion, around part of a bimetallic strip. Increased voltage from the gauge sending unit results in increased heat in the nichrome wire which bends the bimetallic strip which causes the needle to move. At some point long before I got the car all the gauges had "burned out," i.e., the original nichrome wires had all broken due to being over-heated, most likely due to a faulty gauge voltage regulator (it's an electromechanical 5 VDC regular, and if it gets stuck in the closed position it will let the full ~14 VDC from the car's charging system through and burn out those nichrome wires).

I got some new nichrome wire, but you can't solder to that stuff (maybe you could with highly aggressive flux, which isn't a good idea for electric soldering), so to attach the ends to the terminals I wrapped individual copper strands from some stranded wire around the nichrome wire and the terminal and soldered that. All the gauges still work fine (I also got a modernized replacement regulator that's electronic rather than electromechanical, and with over-voltage protection built into it, to prevent it from happening again).

About 22 years ago I did the same thing when replacing a light bulb in a crossover (for component car audio speakers). The light bulb was an automotive light bulb which was used for tweeter protection, similar to how a fuse would be used. Solder refused to wet to the legs in the replacement bulb, so I did the wrapping with thin copper strands thing. That crossover still works too.

HarrySmith

Quote from: TelePlay on August 29, 2022, 03:48:31 PMBending bare copper around a terminal screw is fine in a wall Jack or the like but I find it highly unprofessional to do that inside a telephone, be it a D1, 302, 500, AE 40, SC, stick base, subset or anything else.

Not only does it look cheap, and is not the way the manufacturer did it, but the use of a spade lug over the wire insulation gives the connection more strength, especially with solid conductors which can snap off with too much flexing.

And the spade lug is always a tighter connection.

Only takes a couple of cents and a minute or two to do it bench professionally. Techs in the field probably didn't have the time to play with a crimper and lugs but no excuse for not using lugs on a workbench restoration.


I agree, I meant in  the wall jacks for the hook on the solid wire. I always use spades inside any phone. I also strip back a little insulation, bend it back over the wire and then put the spade on. Just a precaution to be sure it makes a solid connection.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

MaximRecoil

In case anyone doesn't know: if ordering spade terminals (or most anything else) from Digi-Key, you can get free shipping if you mail them your order with a check or money order, rather than ordering online. I don't know why it works that way but it does. You can get their mail order form here:

https://www.digikey.com/-/media/PDF/Help/Order%20Form/order-form_en-US.pdf

Near the bottom on the right it says:

QuoteSHIPPING INFORMATION
We pay all shipping (our choice of method) and insurance to addresses in the USA and Canada when check or money order accompanies order. See "Shipping Charges" in the Digi-Key Terms and Conditions for details on heavy/oversize items.

I ordered 50 spade terminals that way a few days ago and I've attached a screenshot of the confirmation email they sent me yesterday, which shows $0.00 for the shipping cost.

I've been ordering stuff from Digi-key for about 17 years and I only found out about this free shipping thing last winter. I immediately mailed them an order for a few microswitches just to test out the free shipping deal. I wish I'd known about it all along. I've placed at least 50 orders with them over the years, and with an average of say, $5 shipping every time, that's $250 down the drain.