This topic is a discussion about this phone as purchased. A topic containing everything about the restoration of this phone can be found at this link:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16232.msg168225#msg168225
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Hello
I don't know what compelled me to throwing in a higher bid at the end of this auction, but I did! Just won this phone last night and I really don't quite know what I bought. It just looked cool but I'm hoping it's mostly original and that it works. I did know I was bidding with some other buyers that had high ratings so I'm assuming THEY knew what they were bidding on. Here's the listing. I'm hoping I get it within a week or so. If anyone has any information for me now, I'd greatly appreciate it! :)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381615251329
A quick look at the photo shows the housing made by Grey so pre 1948. when AE bought the rights and or machinery from Gray and moved to Chicago.. but the set has been rebuilt.Handset and dial shrowd are newer at least 50s when the type 80 components cane about.No anti stuffing coin return in the Grey years also.Hook is for the type 81 handset on it so it is also newer vintage also.I will have to see the auction to get a better look.Parts are newer than the origional housing but at least they are old.Phoneco sells a chrome set with a new housing and it might fool newcomers. Checked the auction and I think you did not over pay.I hope the guts are intact.you will need a 29 s key to open the upper housing
Thanks for the info.
Did phone companies typically change out parts on phones like this, just to keep them in service? Or would this more likely been done by someone who just owned the phone after it was removed from service?
That 29s key seems expensive! Does anyone sell just repo copies? Or is that just the going price for that particular key?
I recently bought a early 80's AE payphone (my first one!) and just drilled out the locks but if these are original locks, I'd rather keep them intact.
phoneco sells repro 29S keys (catalog Y29S) for $10 (or $7 for phone club members and dealers). Not the best keys. See if perhaps on the back of your phone, all the screws are screwed from the back. Originally, two of them were inserted from the front (inside of the phone). If you can remove those screws (up to 7 I think) on the back, then you can remove the back without having either key.
http://phonecoinc.com/topic.asp?map=1&hhrl=home&gorl=group&group=main&category=Paypart&topic=01022
http://phonecoinc.com/category.asp?map=1&hhrl=home&group=main&gorl=group&category=Paypart
Paystations were a large investment .they were expensive so they got rebuilt or upgraded through the years.vandalised sets might have gotten new or used parts also.the sets most likely got stripped down to parts painted or plated as needed.Handsets bufffed,painted or replaced etc.Anti stuffing coin returns might be added,Ols 2 peice sets might have been upgraded-Rochester telephone did that in the 1960s to sets built in the 20s and 30s.I would not worry to much about it for what you paid.I just hope the guts are intact.I used to clean up chrome sets that looked bad with 0000 steel wool.I would not use the green pads.
Need to wait until you get inside. Cross your fingers you didnt buy one of PhoneCo's recreation payphones.
Doesn't look Phoneco.Ron uasually put Bell System phony inst cards and a Bell sticker on the dial.Ron did not reproduce a Grey coin vault .he might have saved that for a 2 piece paystation
Thanks again everyone. It's shipped ...coming to Southern California from Illinois.
The suspense is going to kill me. I guess I should wait on getting a key in case I need an entire lock and key. I'll post back ASAP.
Weird...I'm getting an internal service error on the links...?
Okay it's arrived! Still have no idea what I bought...
The top lock was open - the cash box is locked and somethings rattling in there; it almost sounds like there's a key in it.
The tag on top says LPB 82 55
It appears to be missing a part in front! Hmmm looks like a coin relay goes there... :-\
I plugged it in and it gets the dial tone. I will also receive calls but won't ring or dial out. When I removed the top box, I noticed the contacts were very dirty. So I wiped them down with some contact cleaner and a small rag. Soon as I post this, I'll it back together and plug it back in.
There's two stickers inside labeled "DTA" with a date of May 1979. Someone made a nice wooden base for it , and on the bottom were two stickers, pictured.
Here's the pictures! Hope someone will chime in soon and tell me the good (or bad) news. I guess I will need keys. The top lock is intact.
Yes, you are missing the coin relay. With regards to the possible key in the coin box, it is possible that is you hold it upside down, that you can shake it out via the coin channel... If you are very lucky, it just might be the key, but more than likely is only a coin.
See my page on the LPB 82-55 at: http://www.islandregister.com/phones/3slot.html
Dave
Thanks Dave
I'll try the gentle shake method! Hey ... if we have a earthquake here, like were "supposed to," maybe it will shake out??? :D
I'll give it a try later today and hope. Funny thing... I found a loose screw and tried to put it back where I thought it went and I dropped it right into one of the holes and into the box! Oops. I did see another coin and the screw when I looked in with a flashlight so that may very well have been what I hear. But I'll hope there's a key in the corner.
BUT at this point I have a few questions.
1. What's the best source for getting the proper relay?
2. What's the approximate cost of the relay? I'm not happy with this ebay seller, not posting pictures of the inside when they very well could and should have.
3. What's the best place for keys?
I see this stuff on ebay but I'd like a recommendation. :)
Unfortunately there are more concerns with your Gray payphone than just not having a coin relay.
1- The Gray bottom doesn't match the internal wiring of the phone. The payphone isn't a Gray it's an Automatic Electric LPB 85 or maybe a -55 if you want it to be. Made many years after Gray went out of the payphone business.
2- The internal parts of the hopper have been destroyed and the hopper locked up in one position.
3- As Dave mentioned you need a coin relay. Hey Dave, hope you are well!
4- The harness wiring for the coin relay isn't there. Could be the wires (4 of them) are hidden by the angle of the picture.
5- Most of the wiring in the top of the payphone is missing. The coin microphone isn't connected. If you want the payphone to be 10 cent initial deposit (an LPB85 -55) you will also need to install a nickel counting assembly. Without it the phone is 5 cent initial deposit (an LPB85).
If you want the payphone to be just an extension phone it's fine the way it is (assuming you can get it to dial properly). If you want it to be 100% correct as a prepay phone with a controller it's going to need some parts and a lot of work.
Stan S.
Thanks Stan for the detailed information. :)
The tag on top says LPB 82 55
I really want a complete phone that fully functions since I will eventually buy a coin controller.
Is this worth the $169 I paid for it? The seller didn't post pictures of the inside and when I got the phone I realized it was open and they could have easily posted pictures. He says I can return it. Frustrating...
What you need is a borescope to look down into the coin box. Handy device for seeing things in out of the way places... As Stan mentioned, the phone is an Automatic Electric, not a Gray, though it may be made up with several different brands.... That name plate means for sure the top section is made by AE.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13454.msg140817#msg140817 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13454.msg140817#msg140817)
The seller offered the option to return the phone.
I may do that since it doesn't appear to be worth the money I paid I think. I'm willing to do some work but this phone sounds like a "Frankenphone" to me!
In your first post you said you bought it because it looked cool. You're only unhappy because of the posts and questions you asked after you received the phone. Seems kind of unfair to the seller to return it because of what other people think about the phone, not because it looked cool. It's still a cool looking phone.
Quote from: wds on May 17, 2016, 03:40:02 PM
In your first post you said you bought it because it looked cool. You're only unhappy because of the posts and questions you asked after you received the phone. Seems kind of unfair to the seller to return it because of what other people think about the phone, not because it looked cool. It's still a cool looking phone.
Yes true ... BUT... I feel the seller was not telling the whole truth about it by not showing the inside. I don't think that should have been overlooked, especially by an experienced Ebay seller with 17974 points.
I assumed (bad thing to do) it would be at least mostly complete. I should have asked for a picture of the inside I guess, but at the same time I still feel like he was not being completely honest about the listing.
If I had a ballpark figure on getting it complete and working with whatever it takes, with what's inside, I'd keep it and just work on it.
Yes, it is a Frankenphone, with its AE top and Gray bottom, and goodness knows what all else in it.... Honestly, to make it all original Gray, or even to make it all AE, it would cost a lot more than it is worth. I suspect the seller expected someone who didn't know the difference to buy it just to use in a Rec room or something.
Dave
I had a friend (I think he's on this site) who may buy it from me. He also may have parts as he has numerous old pay phones so I'll wait for him before I return the phone in a rush. Disappointed though. One thing, the chrome was really dirty. I simply wiped one side and it came out looking really nice looking.
Did you ask the seller any questions before you purchased? Did you ask for the missing pictures? Sounds like you didn't do your homework, now your upset with the seller when you should be upset with yourself. This is part of the learning curve when collecting these old phones, or anything else old. It's certainly not fair that the seller should have to take back the phone and eat all the shipping costs because a Buyer didn't ask questions, or didn't know what he was buying. Window shoppers are for Walmart, not Ebay.
Yes I heard you...I agree I should have asked...
My previous post:
Yes true ... BUT... I feel the seller was not telling the whole truth about it by not showing the inside. I don't think that should have been overlooked, especially by an experienced Ebay seller with 17974 points.
I assumed (bad thing to do) it would be at least mostly complete. I should have asked for a picture of the inside I guess, but at the same time I still feel like he was not being completely honest about the listing.
If I had a ballpark figure on getting it complete and working with whatever it takes, with what's inside, I'd keep it and just work on it.
I guess I'm the anomalous seller who posted INSIDE pictures of stuff I've sold, which in the 13 years I've sold on ebay included phones, radios, slot machines, etc... :P
About the only answer for that is if you needed pictures of the inside to make proper judgement, you should have either asked, or better yet not bought the phone. I've looked at the Ebay listing, and I don't see anything misleading. Possibly the Seller could have provided more information, but if he's not knowledgeable about these old phones, he wouldn't have known what pictures to provide. Correct? It's up to the Buyer to ask questions. You were hoping for a home run at a bargain price and it didn't work out. If the phone had turned out to be a $1000 Gray Telephone would you have given the extra profit back to the Seller? What you did is called "gambling", and you lost bet. You shouldn't take it out on the seller because you lost the bet.
I've sold phones on Ebay, for $10, with approx. $10 postage, then the Buyer would change his mind and return the phone. I'm now out the $10 for the phone, and another $20 in postage. I would have been better off throwing the phone in the trash. Don't much care for window shoppers.
I just wanted a mostly complete three slot phone...to keep, for me.
I stand by my earlier comments about this set.I know it's faults but try to find a virgin never rebuilt paystation is difficult.I suspect many of the correct ones out there were restored with parts as they could be obtained.I doubt Grey had a chrome option .If I saw the set at that price I might have gotten it even though I could see faults from the outside.It could be restored to a typical AE rebuild .The coin relay and nickle switch should be easy to get.These would be AE parts because the hopper is AE and not Grey.Better than the Phoneco metal replicas that are on ebay at a much higher price
Quote from: rdelius on May 17, 2016, 07:01:13 PM
I stand by my earlier comments about this set.I know it's faults but try to find a virgin never rebuilt paystation is difficult.I suspect many of the correct ones out there were restored with parts as they could be obtained.I doubt Grey had a chrome option .If I saw the set at that price I might have gotten it even though I could see faults from the outside.It could be restored to a typical AE rebuild .The coin relay and nickle switch should be easy to get.These would be AE parts because the hopper is AE and not Grey.Better than the Phoneco metal replicas that are on ebay at a much higher price
Thank you... I appreciated your comments too!
But somehow the topic is getting changed into the wrong idea that I was pissed for not getting a complete vintage, virgin, untouched Gray payphone, of which I know nothing about. I just was expecting a MORE complete phone than what I had and now I WAS trying to get a teeny bit more help on what it would cost to get the parts it needed to just make it work as a payphone. All I said was that I thought the seller was holding back by not posting ONE STINKIN internal picture, which would have been quite easy to do. But MY FAULT ADMITTED... I failed to ask.
I'd love to MOVE ON now...
C'mon. Guys - lay off on Mark. How many of you haven't made a bad purchase when you were less experienced. Now, Mark knows what to look out for in the future. He made a mistake, and maybe trusted the seller that it was complete.
I have suggested to him that he fix it up so that it can make calls on a POTS line, and then sell it, noting that it is comprised of parts from several payphones. As long as it looks good and works as a normal phone, I am sure he will recover the money he has in it. There are always people looking for a phone for decorator purposes.
And now, he has learned out what to look for in future purposes. A hard way to learn, but he should be able to get out of it ok, and someone who isn't a collector will love the phone.
Don't blame Mark for a poor first payphone purchase. At least the seller did offer to take it back with Mark paying the shipping.
Additionally Mark is trying to find another way out without returning it to the seller.
Dave
My first payphone purchase was a WE236G (my avatar), bought with only one auction photo. The price was a nice BIN so I took the risk...... Nice, but, no relay and no coin track, plus other missing parts. I ended up buying a parts phone, plus some other parts to put it back together. Payphones are quite challenging to learn about and buy. I agree with Dave that parts or whole phones bring good money usually when sold, and there's nothing like hands-on learning.....
Quote from: wds on May 17, 2016, 03:40:02 PM
In your first post you said you bought it because it looked cool. You're only unhappy because of the posts and questions you asked after you received the phone. Seems kind of unfair to the seller to return it because of what other people think about the phone, not because it looked cool. It's still a cool looking phone.
WDS is right.
I did think the phone was cool looking.
I should have asked the seller for a picture of the inside.
I have a habit of assuming people would do what I do all the time...as in posting one inside picture. I believe now the seller just wasn't thinking about it; he just overlooked it. I scrolled at the other items this seller has and it's clear he's NOT a phone salesman. He's just selling all sorts of odds and ends.
I should have done my homework. I usually do, but I'm used to buying slot machines and they always have an inside picture or, if they're local I just look. Well I failed to look in this case.
So I'm keeping this cool phone and hope to make it into a mostly AE payphone. I will also leave the seller positive feedback.
Now can anyone tell me what the heck I need to buy first? :D
Thanks DavePEI for your post as well. I'll be fine. I'm ready to work on my phone.
"Now can anyone tell me what the heck I need to buy first?"
Not a problem.
1-The missing Hopper parts.
A Trap Lever.
A Trap Lever Spring.
A Trap Lever Pin.
2-A working TESTED Western Electric TYPE 1A 4 terminal coin relay. Hopefully the wiring of the harness that connects to the relay is somewhere hidden in the phone.
3- To make the phone perfect, an Automatic Electric straight front, chrome plated bottom with a tray. One with an open coin return or a Pull Bucket (your choice) with the proper coin return chute to match.
You should be able to trade your older style Gray bottom for one. Your Gray bottom is more collectible so that shouldn't be a problem.
4- A 1A terminal assembly with mounting hardware.
5- A 2 Nickel Mechanism Assembly. Automatic Electric Part Number 60530-C with mounting hardware.
6- A few lugged jumper wires of the proper color to connect the coin microphone.
Forum member 'Payphone installer' probably has all the parts you need.
Might be a good idea to check the TCI Technical Library for whatever information they have on the payphone.
Good luck.
Stan S.
Its possible the seller didn't know it was a Frankenphone. These are the thing you learn by collecting. You do research, and ask questions of collectors in the know.
Many business sold phones that catered to those seeking a phone for the nostalgia. these are not collectors. they just wanted a phone that looked old, and functioned as a modern phone. Your phone obviously fit that bill. Nothing wrong with that, but as a buyer and collector you need to know. not all sellers know either. They see something that looks old, so they think its old and original.
Just be glad you didn't pay 300 or more for it. 169, isn't bad.
Check out the PhoneCo Inc website. they sell their frankenphones for 400-500. but they don't pass them off as original either. they tell you exactly how many reproduction parts are in them. They make their phones out of some original parts. remember, back in the day, this stuff was going out in the scrap dumpster. lots of people bought tons of phones for almost nothing. and lots of those people sold refurbished, and reproduction phones to fill a niche for those wanted a nostaligic phone, but didn't want to do the restoration work.
Thanks trainman!
Yes I agree... that's why I made my last post. I think I bought it from a seller that probably buys from auction houses, etc. I've said enough about how I "think" the seller should be but I do now see it from his point of view enough to understand.
And now I think this will be a great project for me, to learn more about these interesting things.
Heck... when I heard that "bong" sound for the quarter, the "ding" sound for the nickel and the "ding ding" sound for the dime, I just decided this phone wants me to put some new life into it. :)
Matt...I have been collecting Telephones for over 35 years and would have no idea on what should be on the inside of a payphone. If it is real or repro or wrong maker, no clue. It is not my expertise. My guess is the seller had no idea as well. I would give yourself a break and enjoy your Payphone. Looks really nice to me....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on May 19, 2016, 07:29:00 AM
Matt...I have been collecting Telephones for over 35 years and would have no idea on what should be on the inside of a payphone. If it is real or repro or wrong maker, no clue. It is not my expertise. My guess is the seller had no idea as well. I would give yourself a break and enjoy your Payphone. Looks really nice to me....Doug
Thanks Doug!
It's Mark though... :D
Yes I agree on all counts. I'm keeping it and going to start a new thread on getting back to a working condition "more AE" payphone.
Mark - The same seller who had that bare hopper now has another one listed which has all the trap parts. You may have another source for the parts, like Payphone Installer, but here you can see what a complete hopper looks like without the relay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262446999175