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#61
Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques / NEED HELP! Painting metal phon...
Last post by turbofirev8 - April 15, 2024, 04:37:31 PMHi, I'm new to the forum and I am in need of advice badly as I am now officially at my wits end with this. I have a few different phone projects that I've been working on here and there for some time and recently I decided to go ahead and paint the lot of metal phone parts that were more chips then paint, which is the only reason I would paint an old phone personally, but it has turned into an absolute nightmare.
Originally I painted the entire lot, which consisted of three different phone bodies (a Western Electric 302 from 1941, a Stromberg-Carlson 1243, and a Connecticut TP-6-A 'toaster' from 1952), four finger wheels (two brass Automatic Electric, an aluminum Western Electric, and a steel Western Electric), four dial card rings (three brass and one aluminum), two finger cups (made out of pot metal I assume), and the hook switch flapper for the Stromberg-Carlson. So a differing variety of metal components. Initially the paint (Rustoleum black spray paint) laid down fine, nice and smooth. I even assembled most of the components thinking everything was fine, until my finger slipped while working on one of them and my nail took off a large chunk of paint straight back down to smooth metal beneath. After I got over the shock, and as agonizing as it was to do, in the end I tried the same with each and every component I had painted, running just my fingernail across them and... the exact same thing. No matter the type of metal, chipped right off with absolute ease with just my finger nail. So I disassembled everything again and stripped all the paint off, which was not adhering to any of the metal. I've never had paint that was not adhering lay down so nice and smooth before honestly. What a heart breaker that was.
So then I tried again with the first two phone bodies, this time using Rustoleum etching primer, as I had managed to find a few threads on here where people said etch priming them was a necessity. Well, it didn't work for me. It turned out to be the same difference after drying for several days, looked nice and smooth but peeled right off, back down to bare metal with little effort. I had been using a tack cloth for final prep until this point, as I always have when painting stuff for my classic car projects, but it got into my head that maybe the issue was some sort of residue off the cloth preventing adhesion to these types of metal. So, I tried for a third time with just the 302 body, sanding it down, wiping it with solvent, and then just blowing it off with dry compressed air before priming. Nope. Same difference. The paint, actually etch primer again in this case, would lay down nice and smooth, but would not stick at all to the metal beneath.
At this point I went back to the only other metal phone part I had ever painted before, a handset hook on a Western Electric 354 wall phone for my shop. This paint had stuck without any issue using the same technique I had been trying for these other components, it had even appeared to be a similar type of metal to the phone bodies. The only difference I realized was I had used Krylon 5X adhesion paint by pure happen stance, as I had a can from some other project left over when I went to paint it. So, thinking that this different brand/type of paint must be the solution, I went out and bought some more of that exact paint and this time fired up my blasting cabinet and bead blasted the 302 case to assure it had a sufficiently roughed up surface to even better promote paint adhesion. Then I wiped it down with solvent to remove the dust/residue from blasting and let sit for 24 hours as I had before the previous painting attempt, blowing it off with only compressed air before painting.
This time, nothing but fish eyes over every millimeter of surface. The paint won't even lay down now. At least it was laying down flat and smooth before. Sure, it didn't adhere, but now I can't help but think that I've made things even worse. I literally have no idea where to go from here. The only thing I can think is there's still unevaporated solvent on it, but I don't know how. I've been working on classic cars as a hobby, including painting them, for over three decades now and these are the techniques I've used for painting smaller chassis and under hood components in all that time without any issue. Granted, these phones (which I'm much more new to as a hobby) are made from different alloys then most of which I'm used to on older vehicles. I don't even mess with aluminum parts all that often on my cars to be honest. I've read every post about painting I could locate on here however, and other then powder coating (which I don't have a powder coat system available to me) or baking them in the oven (which again I don't have access to in my shop) I've tried what others have suggested to no avail. Any suggestions, comments, sympathy (especially from others who have managed to successfully paint their phones) would be very much appreciated.
Originally I painted the entire lot, which consisted of three different phone bodies (a Western Electric 302 from 1941, a Stromberg-Carlson 1243, and a Connecticut TP-6-A 'toaster' from 1952), four finger wheels (two brass Automatic Electric, an aluminum Western Electric, and a steel Western Electric), four dial card rings (three brass and one aluminum), two finger cups (made out of pot metal I assume), and the hook switch flapper for the Stromberg-Carlson. So a differing variety of metal components. Initially the paint (Rustoleum black spray paint) laid down fine, nice and smooth. I even assembled most of the components thinking everything was fine, until my finger slipped while working on one of them and my nail took off a large chunk of paint straight back down to smooth metal beneath. After I got over the shock, and as agonizing as it was to do, in the end I tried the same with each and every component I had painted, running just my fingernail across them and... the exact same thing. No matter the type of metal, chipped right off with absolute ease with just my finger nail. So I disassembled everything again and stripped all the paint off, which was not adhering to any of the metal. I've never had paint that was not adhering lay down so nice and smooth before honestly. What a heart breaker that was.
So then I tried again with the first two phone bodies, this time using Rustoleum etching primer, as I had managed to find a few threads on here where people said etch priming them was a necessity. Well, it didn't work for me. It turned out to be the same difference after drying for several days, looked nice and smooth but peeled right off, back down to bare metal with little effort. I had been using a tack cloth for final prep until this point, as I always have when painting stuff for my classic car projects, but it got into my head that maybe the issue was some sort of residue off the cloth preventing adhesion to these types of metal. So, I tried for a third time with just the 302 body, sanding it down, wiping it with solvent, and then just blowing it off with dry compressed air before priming. Nope. Same difference. The paint, actually etch primer again in this case, would lay down nice and smooth, but would not stick at all to the metal beneath.
At this point I went back to the only other metal phone part I had ever painted before, a handset hook on a Western Electric 354 wall phone for my shop. This paint had stuck without any issue using the same technique I had been trying for these other components, it had even appeared to be a similar type of metal to the phone bodies. The only difference I realized was I had used Krylon 5X adhesion paint by pure happen stance, as I had a can from some other project left over when I went to paint it. So, thinking that this different brand/type of paint must be the solution, I went out and bought some more of that exact paint and this time fired up my blasting cabinet and bead blasted the 302 case to assure it had a sufficiently roughed up surface to even better promote paint adhesion. Then I wiped it down with solvent to remove the dust/residue from blasting and let sit for 24 hours as I had before the previous painting attempt, blowing it off with only compressed air before painting.
This time, nothing but fish eyes over every millimeter of surface. The paint won't even lay down now. At least it was laying down flat and smooth before. Sure, it didn't adhere, but now I can't help but think that I've made things even worse. I literally have no idea where to go from here. The only thing I can think is there's still unevaporated solvent on it, but I don't know how. I've been working on classic cars as a hobby, including painting them, for over three decades now and these are the techniques I've used for painting smaller chassis and under hood components in all that time without any issue. Granted, these phones (which I'm much more new to as a hobby) are made from different alloys then most of which I'm used to on older vehicles. I don't even mess with aluminum parts all that often on my cars to be honest. I've read every post about painting I could locate on here however, and other then powder coating (which I don't have a powder coat system available to me) or baking them in the oven (which again I don't have access to in my shop) I've tried what others have suggested to no avail. Any suggestions, comments, sympathy (especially from others who have managed to successfully paint their phones) would be very much appreciated.
#62
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by TelePlay - April 15, 2024, 03:51:39 PMQuote from: poplar1 on April 15, 2024, 03:40:40 PMIn the second photo, it appears to me that the 2 white wires are connected to the muting contact springs.
Did I get this wrong? To me it looks like the white wires are connected to the pulse contacts in the dial, the red circle.
Could use better images of the dial from different angles showing what is operating both sets of leaf springs.
#63
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by poplar1 - April 15, 2024, 03:40:40 PMQuote from: TelePlay on April 13, 2024, 06:42:02 PMThe pulse circuit leaves are circled in red, the mute circuit in blue.
The green wire is connected to the muting leaves
In the second photo, it appears to me that the 2 white wires are connected to the muting contact springs. So when you dial, you are not hearing dial tone, because
the receiver is shorted.
Also, make sure there is not an added wire (strap) between F and RR.
#64
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by MMikeJBenN27 - April 14, 2024, 10:14:42 PMIf you haven't already, I would put the two wires from the pulsing contacts on F and RR respectively and the two wires from the mute contacts on R and G respectively and see what happens, and if it doesn't work, swap the wires going to F and RR with each other and try again
Mike
Mike
#65
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by 5415551212 - April 14, 2024, 02:44:24 PMI have herd military phones like that were '4 wire' systems, perhaps that has something to do with it.
Whats the desired outcome a dial intercom for the ship?
I found some info on the PBX here:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/document-repository/catalogs-manuals-educational-docs-by-company/western-electric-bell-system/marketing-documents-by-date/309-dimension-electronic-pbx-series-100-400-and-2000/file
Whats the desired outcome a dial intercom for the ship?
I found some info on the PBX here:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/document-repository/catalogs-manuals-educational-docs-by-company/western-electric-bell-system/marketing-documents-by-date/309-dimension-electronic-pbx-series-100-400-and-2000/file
#66
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by paul-f - April 14, 2024, 10:57:55 AMQuote from: bcarolla on April 14, 2024, 02:18:13 AM... I looked through all the wiring diagrams on the site I could find and none of them are an exact match. ...
There's a lot of SC info in the TCI Library. You might find something on special purpose sets.
For starters, try: https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=sc+t-1114
For much more:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/document-repository/catalogs-manuals/stromberg-carlson
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/strombergcarlson/
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/stromberg-carlson-1
#67
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by dsk - April 14, 2024, 09:15:35 AMThat is a strange dial! Where are the Red, Blue and Green wires connected? If you slowly let the dial return from a 0 how does the contact set act?
If you remove those wires from the terminals, do you loose the dial tone? If yes, may it work with one of them removed and taped. (test one by one)
If you remove those wires from the terminals, do you loose the dial tone? If yes, may it work with one of them removed and taped. (test one by one)
#68
Wanted / Re: Wanted - Broken AE50 Wall ...
Last post by LarryInMichigan - April 14, 2024, 08:51:06 AMI have a working AE50 with a few broken ribs in the vents. There is no handset currently connected to it.
Larry
Larry
#69
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by TelePlay - April 14, 2024, 02:45:58 AMKeep in mind that the third, green wire coming off of the mute leaves in your dial is probably not the same green wire showing on the wiring diagrams.
One diagram show green and white attached to the pulse leaves and your phone has 2 white wires attached to the pulse leaves.
You need to understand you phone's wiring by tracing and not by relying on wire colors.
That taped off green wire is a mystery only you can solve because you have the unique phones on your bench.
One diagram show green and white attached to the pulse leaves and your phone has 2 white wires attached to the pulse leaves.
You need to understand you phone's wiring by tracing and not by relying on wire colors.
That taped off green wire is a mystery only you can solve because you have the unique phones on your bench.
#70
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Stromberg Carlson wont dia...
Last post by bcarolla - April 14, 2024, 02:18:13 AMTelePlay.... I looked through all the wiring diagrams on the site I could find and none of them are an exact match. However they did give me some ideas where to attach that green wire so I will experiment some. Since there are many phones with the green disconnected I know there is a reason or was at some time. Thanks for the leads