Anyone into old lanterns? (The Unnecessary Sequel Part 1)

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I guess I didn't have enough projects in the works so after going back and forth on a pig in a poke lantern, I bought it telling the seller I might send it back after looking at it in hand.

The lantern was an interesting color and the seller said it was painted. Looked like a light coat of rattle can on a nice tin lantern - WRONG!

It came without a globe (I have extras), the fuel spout cap must have been "rusted" into place so someone took a channel lock and twisted the top of the cap off leaving the threaded part in the spout so they used a machine screw with large washer to hold the fuel in (I had an extra cap), the burner was brand new (never used) and the metal was undamaged.

That's where the fun started. Two applications of CitriStrip took off the rattle can layer to expose one ugly lantern. The lantern had factory applied Dietz yellow when new and someone before spaying it took about 70% of the factory paint off. I gave it another coat of CitriStrip which removed a little bit of the factory paint but that wasn't going to do the job. Tried to remove the paint mechanically but it would not budge. Thinking back, there was an awful lot of rattle can paint used on the lantern covering up a lot of factory tough yellow enamel. The only factory yellow seen was where the chimney rubbed inside the air exchanger and inside the chimney.

Needed a better stripped but didn't want to open up my aircraft paint remover. So, a bit of research lead to me sodium hydroxide, the preferred paint stripper of WEBellSystemChristian (Easy Off Oven Cleaner). The active ingredient is NaOH at about 4-6% but I never liked the over spray from an aerosol can.

Other caustic lye products include drain cleaners and Draino makes what they call a maximum strength gel product which is 5-10% bleach and 1-5% lye. Being a thick gel, it brushed onto the lantern easily with no drips or odor. I let the lantern sit for a half hour and rinsed it off to find some of the paint came off but the rest of it was still tight to the metal.

Auto guys use lye to remove paint but higher concentrations so I bought a pound of pure lye crystals. Mixed two tablespoons into a cup of the gel producing a 16% concentration of NaOH. Brushed that on the lantern and let it sit for several hours. Rinsed it off with water and a sponge and 90% of the remaining paint came off. Only down side was the considerable amount of brown corrosion on the lantern, more than before the lye treatment. I thought the lantern was now junk but went forward with the restoration process.

Put the lantern into the standard molasses bath and was surprised to see the chelating processes begin within a half hour. Plenty of bubble on the surface in an hours time. Let it sit in the bath for a few days and then went over it with a Brillo pad. Most of the corrosion was gone and more of the remaining paint came off. The lye must have softened the paint to the point that the molasses could lift it off.

Back into the bath for a 5 day soak and another Brillo pad. The lantern was free of any brown corrosion and only the only paint left was a bit on the chimney where the heat from the flame must have really baked it on. Other than the expected pitting in this Terne plated latern, it looked respectable.

So, now it's ready to begin the final hand cleaning and buffing before top coating it with linseed oil. The only thing I have to fix is to weld one tab on the top of the chimney to hold the top cap on. There are 4 mounts and one of the 4 tabs had been bent to many times and virtually fell of after removing the cap. The local antique mall had a very old but broken tin cookie cutter that I can use to cut out a tab and weld it into place. Will do that with a 12 volt car battery once I get the tab cut out.

It's not going to be the nicest lantern I have but it will work and it will have character and it will have "Chicago Park District" embossed on the fuel font, but it won't be Park District yellow. This lantern dates to the late 50s. Sometime after they stopped stamping the manufacture date into the air tube but made in the USA (they were in the process of moving to China in the late 50s so USA would not be on the lantern cap if it were a China made lantern).

I should have passed on this lantern but I did learn a few new things including how to use caustic soda (lye) to remove paint. By the way, NEVER EVER use NaOH on non-ferrous metals. Sodium hydroxide will dissolve aluminum and in the process give off hydrogen gas.

Will post final after images when done. Just wanted to get this Off Topic topic going, mainly to report on the use of lye as a paint stripper.

[RotarDad]

John - Thanks for the details on another cool project.  Another addition to your home for abused and wayward lanterns!  It does look very nice now; question: why not put it back to park-service yellow?  It would add color to the display, and be in original trim?  Just a thought.... Paul

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John - Thanks for the details on another cool project.  Another addition to your home for abused and wayward lanterns!  It does look very nice now; question: why not put it back to park-service yellow?  It would add color to the display, and be in original trim?  Just a thought.... Paul

Paul,

That is a darn good question. I've thought of powder coating but there are so many inter-sliding and moving parts, some that get hot, that I don't know if that is possible. Would take some advanced disassembly.,

Polane, same issues.

Rattle can, same issues.

But, the more I look at it, the pitting, the more I'm leaning that way.

Too many pits in the surface to metal plate it, chrome or tin. They would still show. I'm going to have to find a factory painted similar lantern at an antique store so I can see what they did and did not paint.

If I can successfully spot weld a new tab on the chimney, that will be the next step or decision. And then it could be any color. However I finish it, it's got to look nice or it's going to get sold.

Right now, all the paint is off. The remaining paint was soft enough to grind off easily with a 150 grit Dremel 3mm abrasive buffing wheel, several.

Thanks for you suggestion, and reply. My biggest achievement here is developing a highly caustic gel paint remover that works, on ferrous metals.

[TelePlay]

John - Thanks for the details on another cool project.  Another addition to your home for abused and wayward lanterns!  It does look very nice now; . . .

Paul,

As a good/bad comparison, the same day I bought the "yellow" lantern, I was able to snipe this Dietz Little Wizard for about the same price. It was made in Syracuse New York in August of 1941. Seller said it was complete and she was right. Came with the very first original clear glass globe (Dietz Little Wizard is embossed on the glass), the burner was in great shape, the fuel cap and font were fine, there were no dents, nothing had to be straighten out and no parts needed to be bought. All it was was covered with a rust brown layer of dirt.

A little glass cleaner for the globe and one 3 day spell in the molasses bath and it was ready to go. Had a nice dark tin patina on the upper 2/3rds of the lantern and a speckled patina on the fuel font most likely due to dirt build up from not cleaning the lantern when it was in daily use way back when.

I didn't do a topic for this one because it was perfect as purchased. No issues to resolve. Less than a half hour of actual of work over 3 days to clean it up. Nothing to say other than I got a deal on the buy.

For comparison, the Little Wizard before, after and in the bath are attached. It's interesting how the bubbles formed during the chelation process by the chelating agents (sugars) in molasses create a perfect image of the lantern outline on the surface.

So, one was a good surprise (I bit the bear) and the other a bad surprise (the bear bit me) but knowing that  might happen. It's just like buying telephones and a lot of other vintage stuff on eBay. At least I've never had a lantern damaged in shipment.

[RotarDad]

John - Very nice!  I can see the glass globe appears smaller on the little wizard.  How much smaller is this lantern than a standard version?  Paul

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John - Very nice!  I can see the glass globe appears smaller on the little wizard.  How much smaller is this lantern than a standard version?  Paul

Paul,

Yes, the word little in Little Wizard in real. The wick is 5/8" wide vs 7/8" wide for the full sized Dietz No 2 D-Lite and the Little Wizard fuel tank is smaller since it does not burn fuel as fast, or give off as much light.

Here is a photo of one side of my "lamp" shelf showing the "Little Wizard" in between a 302 Lamp Phone (restored, not created from scratch - I didn't drill the handset and cradle) and my very old Dietz No 2 with brass fuel font and chimney. The Wizard is behind the No 2 so it is a bit taller if it were side by side but it still shows the size difference well. $23.50 $31.00

The next image is a side by side comparison of the Little Wizard, No 2 D-Lite and the Dietz tall globe Blizzard. The 3rd image is a comparison of another Little Wizard I have and the Dietz Fire King which is a "hot blast" lantern (all others are "cold blast") and uses a Blizzard globe encased in a lot of protective metal sitting on a small fuel font (I guess not to add a lot more fuel to the fire in case of an on site accident) and a lot of protective metal around the globe. Would only need enough fuel to last the length time to put out a fire so no need for a large fuel font. There's as many variations of lanterns as there are of phones and 2 or 3 other manufactures besides Dietz with their own styles. Every year or two they all came out with the new and improved lantern or upgrades to existing lanterns.

Back in 1930, brand new lanterns were expensive. The Little Wizard sold for $17.50 a dozen, the No 2 D-Lite $27.00 a dozen and the Blizzard went for $27.00 all with clear globes. Colored globes sold for $6.40 a dozen (today, clear repro globes sell for $8 and color $15, each). 10 years later, 1939, the Little Wizard was up to $23.50 a dozen the the No 2 was $31.00 a dozen. I've seen ads from 1910 or so where these lanterns sold for $1 each, $12 a dozen. That was a lot of money back then.

The Little Wizard is 11.5" tall not including the bail, the carry handle, generates 6 candle power and burns for 20 hours on a full tank of fuel. The Blizzard had a taller globe and came in at 14 3/4" with 10 candle power and with the large fuel font would last up to 20 hours.

The "full sized" Dietz No 2 D-Lite, the "Cadillac" of lanterns in the day, 13.5" tall not including the bail (the carry handle), generates 10 candle power and with the large fuel font would burn for 35 hours.

They did  make smaller lanterns but those were usually for warning type lanterns that were intended to provide a, usually, red globe light and not to illuminate an area. I'm old enough to remember the city I lived in using kerosene warning lanterns and the ground "smudge pots" to warn motorists and pedestrians of road construction areas. That was when people respected property that was not there's so a burning pot would sit for days without being disturbed by anyone other than the worker who came every few days to refill the tank (last image below). These rare smudge pots now sell for $45 to $90 depending on condition).

Anyway, I've taken steps to prep this once "factory yellow" for painting. Ordered two different chemicals to prep the surface after I get it smoothed down with probably 00 steel wool. One to clean the surface and the other to chemically prepare it to hold paint.

As for paint, I found this in the FAQs section on the W.T. Kirkman web site about Dietz lantern paint colors, FAQ Question #15.

          "Copyrighted Text by W.T. Kirkman Used With Permission, Courtesy of www.lanternnet.com "

" Dietz only started regularly painting their hand lanterns in 1943, when World War II forced the use of terne plate to replace tin plate. (Street Lamps, and lanterns with a dedicated purpose, such as wagon lamps, fire department lanterns, carriage lamps, etc., were painted before 1943.) Terne plate is not attractive, and not as rust resistant as tin plate, so the Dietz lanterns made from 1943 to 1949 were painted machine gray, which was replaced by metallic blue as the "standard" color. We have not found any documentation regarding original paint colors used by Dietz, however, I have talked to former longtime Dietz employees about the paint colors. It seems that no care was given to maintaining the same formula from batch to batch, which explains why there are so many different shades of Dietz "blue" on lanterns made from 1949 into the 1960's. The shades of red that Dietz used also varies, but not as much. Below I have noted the closest "off the shelf" paint matches:

Rust-Oleum #7587838 Dark Machine Gray:
Most Dietz lanterns made from late 1943 into 1948

Dupli-Color #T131 Mariner Blue:
Current Dietz Metallic Blue, (Used since the 1960's)
NO LONGER AVAILABLE

Value-Test Americana Red:
Current Dietz Red (Used since the 1950's)

Rust-Oleum #7765 Regal Red:
Vintage Dietz Red (Pre-1950)

Krylon SuperMaxx #K08979000 Satin Hunter Green:
Dietz Pioneer, Post 1914 Imperial Square Lamps, etc.

Hammerite #41125 Hammered Dark Blue:
Japan Blue Finish used up to 1914 (Apply Very Lightly)

Hammerite #42240 Smooth Gloss Black:
Dietz Union and Motor Lamps from 1888 to 1950

Hammerite #41165 Hammered Deep Green:
C.T. Ham Metallic Green used on street lamps.
used on Street Lamps

Rust-Oleum #7443830 Caterpillar Yellow:
Dietz Night Watch "

While it was "Caterpillar Yellow," I think I am going to go with the "Dark Machine Gray" which is more like an unpainted lantern but painted to cover up the pitting and protect it from more rust and pitting. Also, if the paint doesn't exactly "cover" all tight spots, the void will blend in with the paint. It's just me but red, blue, green, black and yellow would make the lantern look too new in that those are the colors on brand new lanterns which are not of the same quality of materials as the pre-1960 US made lanterns. Dietz specified dark machine grey with an amber globe would look nice, I think. A clear globe always works regardless of lantern color. Interesting that Dietz (in bold above) did not pay the same attention to color as WE did to their phone colors.

Well, that's a lot of stuff on lanterns posted here for anyone who many be interested and for me as a reference in case I forget.

[RotarDad]

Thanks John for the nice pics and write-up!  I like the smaller version, and they display well in adding some extra variety to your collection.   I'm with you on the yellow.  What you want is old, faded, beat-up yellow, with some corrosion showing through....  New paint might kill the vintage feel.  The Gray is probably a better choice - maybe you can under-apply it to create less-than-perfect coverage?

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I'm with you on the yellow.  What you want is old, faded, beat-up yellow, with some corrosion showing through....  New paint might kill the vintage feel.  The Gray is probably a better choice - maybe you can under-apply it to create less-than-perfect coverage?

Paul,

I really like the No 2 D-Lite and we use them for power outages and whenever we go up to the cabin. They produce enough light to live by and heat to take the chill out of the air. Even on a damp summer night, a lit lantern a few feet away makes it feel better. There is a lot of satisfaction with restoring a pre-war lantern to full working condition and then using it whenever. After having done about a dozen now, I am also very sensitive to spotting kerosene lanterns in TV shows and movies. Lucas McCain had one hanging on the outside wall next to his front door in The Rifleman TV series, and sometimes used it. Just like phone spotting.

Now, as for painting, I've been trying to see what was painted at the factory. Lot of old painted lanterns on eBay of every color but some have been repainted. The image below is what I believe to be 4 factory paint yellow lanterns with character and one brand new yellow. Some pretty ugly lanterns. I looked for new yellow lanterns and that is the only one I found. Guess Cat Yellow is not a popular color.

On the old lanterns, they don't paint the burner, globe plate, globe wires or bail (handle).

But you are right about not glo-coating the lantern with paint. Got to keep it thin enough to show the surface shapes. If the gray paint doesn't quite cover and area, the silver gray of the metal will show through. One thing nice about the metal finish lanterns is they can't get dinged as paint can. This may be a display only lantern when finished. On bare metal lanterns, the fun is to see how much and what kind of patina you get on the tin once cleaned. You never know when you start on a lantern. I have some that look like NOS, others that are almost solid dark grey and some with a mix, as that Little Wizard was. The use of molasses takes off the dirt, oxidation and some paint without disturbing the underlying patina. No need to take the lantern back to a new tin look.

I've seen factory gray painted lanterns and they do look nice. It was the first color they used from about '43 to '47 when they switched to the Dietz blue. Back then, yellow and red may have been special orders, in quantity. I guess if you are buying enough of these to get your city or company embossed on the tank, adding a special color wouldn't cost that much more. After '45 everything was painted anyway due to the switch to Terne plating from tin plating.

If it turns out well, I post pictures. If it doesn't, you'll never see it again.

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After writing all of the above last night, felt I should grabbed my 1921 Blizzard daily driver with its amber globe and lite it up while relaxing with with late night NetFlix. This lantern has an almost perfect dark gray/brown patina which  fits well with the amber glass. They do add a nice atmosphere to any room.

[RotarDad]

Nice, John!  You're keeping a bit of the yellow flicker in an increasingly white light LED world....

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Looks great, John! I should fire up a couple of the lanterns we have laying around the house...

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Close to starting the paint work but since one of the 4 top cap retaining tabs was broken off, I had to improvise a fix. Cut a piece of tin and tried to spot weld it onto the steel but the difference in metal made that an impossible task. The tin melted away before adhering to the steel. So, on to step two, solder. 60/40 melts at 370° F. So, lit up a similar lantern and check the lantern temperatures at full flame (just beginning to produce soot) and at a low light level. High flame was 100° F below the solder melting point so went with that.

Laid the replacement tin tab in the channel, used a micro butane torch to heat the metal, laid a lot of solder into the area, brushed off the flux, evened out the solder and that fix is done. Sure do end up having to do a lot of figure it out first time fixes working with lanterns. This fix turned out well in that the inside of the post will never be seen and the cap fits nicely.

Next step is 400 grit sanding, de-oiling, preparing the surface, primer and paint. It may turn out well, maybe. Never painted a lantern before this one.