wooden ringer boxes

[decked002]

Were these typically used with telephones during the teens - twenties or are they more of a novelty?

[Sargeguy]

Wooden ringer boxes were used with phones from about 1880 until the 1940s.  In the early days phones came in separate parts, with the combination of parts used varying due to a number of factors.  Later they were used as extension ringers and in other applications.

[HarrySmith]

All phones up until the 302 required a ringer box or subset. The 302 was the first self contained phone that had condenser, coil and ringer built in. Introduced in 1937. Even some 300 series had a subset, model 307 IIRC.

[unbeldi]

All phones up until the 302 required a ringer box or subset.

The phrase ringer box or subset cannot be generalized. In general, these terms are not the same.  Depending on the time of reference the meaning and usage changed. It is true that at times a subset was called a ringer box, but more commonly not in formal documents.

A collection of the terms one finds in catalogs and technical specifications:
*ringer box - ambiguous term that may be an extension bell or a subset, also bell box.
*extension bell - a device that contains only a ringer or bell and components that activate them (tube, relay).
*extension ringer - same as prev.
*desk set box - synonym for subset, typically was used before subset became more common, a device that complements a desk set (handset mounting) or desk stand (candlestick).
*subscriber set - any box that may contain one or more of these: network components, ringer, and generator, even handset, receiver, transmitter, and dial. Most generally, any instrument that a subscriber uses for conducting a telephone call.
*subset - short form of subscriber set, but probably more typically used for those that only contain the network and ringer.
*hand generator box - strictly a wooden or metal box with a magneto

The 302 was the first self contained phone that had condenser, coil and ringer built in. Introduced in 1937. Even some 300 series had a subset, model 307 IIRC.

The 302 was not the first combined, self-contained telephone. It was Western Electric's first combined desk set, true, but even the wall-mounted subscriber sets were self-contained. Outside of the Bell System and world-wide, there were many desk sets that came earlier, much earlier.

[decked002]

Thanks to all of you.
I'm not at all familiar with wooden ringer boxes,
more so the metal boxes. I have a 534 A with my
W.E. 102

[poplar1]

"Subset" is a short for "subscriber set." In fact, many early BSPs list two types of "subscriber sets": "Wall sets" and "bell boxes." Later, "subset" was used to refer to the separate box but not the wall sets.

It should also be pointed out that wall sets were usually complete phones. Only the desk sets needed a separate box for the induction coil, condenser and ringer. WE's 302 was called a "combined set," or "C set" because the parts previously contained in the bell box and the hand telephone set were combined in one unit.

WE switched from wood subscriber sets to metal starting in the teens, with the 334A bell box and 333A wall telephone for common battery lines. In areas that still used hand generators to signal the operator, wood was still used until the 1940s.

Northern Electric didn't manufacture 334A or 534A metal bell boxes. They continued to use wood until the 584-type with Bakelite cover.

[unbeldi]

Thanks to all of you.
I'm not at all familiar with wooden ringer boxes,
more so the metal boxes. I have a 534 A with my
W.E. 102

A 534-type metal subset is the most period-correct,  then modern, device for a B1/D1 102-type telephone, although many were still issued with wooden subsets, like the 315-types, and the 400-series when anti-sidetone circuits became available.

[Sargeguy]

When I hear "ringer box" or "bell boxes" I assume it refers to the smaller boxes which just contain the ringer, and "subset" refers to subscriber sets.  The ones with magnetos I call "magneto boxes" or "top boxes" if they have a switch hook. 

[unbeldi]

When I hear "ringer box" or "bell boxes" I assume it refers to the smaller boxes which just contain the ringer, and "subset" refers to subscriber sets.  The ones with magnetos I call "magneto boxes" or "top boxes" if they have a switch hook.

Yes, that is my general view too and make the most sense, IMHO.

[poplar1]

When I hear "ringer box" or "bell boxes" I assume it refers to the smaller boxes which just contain the ringer, and "subset" refers to subscriber sets.  The ones with magnetos I call "magneto boxes" or "top boxes" if they have a switch hook.

Yes, that is my general view too and make the most sense, IMHO.

I usually say "subset" for a 534A, 685A, 295A, etc; "magneto subset" for 315H, 300K, etc.; "top box" for the part used on 2-box or 3-box phones, and "extension ringer" for a 531A, L1A, 687A, etc.

However, a spot check of a 1983 AT&T Catalog shows a 685A "subscriber set" but not "subset." And a 1956 BSP, entitled "Subscriber Sets, Description" shows three types of "subscriber sets":

(A) Wall Type Sets  (433, 633, 653-type)
(B) Bell Boxes  (The 434, 634, "and 684 type sets are bell boxes for use with hand telephone sets, desk stands, etc.")
(C) Extension Ringers--Loud Ringing Bells (531-type, 592-type)

Somehow, it seems awkward to say that the three types of subscriber sets are subsets, wall sets and extension ringers.


Ref:
Material Logistics Customer Premises Equipment and Supplies Catalog, AT&T Information Systems, Issue One, November 1983

Bell System Practices, Section C31.101, Issue 4, Dec., 1956

[unbeldi]

When I hear "ringer box" or "bell boxes" I assume it refers to the smaller boxes which just contain the ringer, and "subset" refers to subscriber sets.  The ones with magnetos I call "magneto boxes" or "top boxes" if they have a switch hook.

Yes, that is my general view too and make the most sense, IMHO.

I usually say "subset" for a 534A, 685A, 295A, etc; "magneto subset" for 315H, 300K, etc.; "top box" for the part used on 2-box or 3-box phones, and "extension ringer" for a 531A, L1A, 687A, etc.

However, a spot check of a 1983 AT&T Catalog shows a 685A "subscriber set" but not "subset." And a 1956 BSP, entitled "Subscriber Sets, Description" shows three types of "subscriber sets":

(A) Wall Type Sets  (433, 633, 653-type)
(B) Bell Boxes  (The 434, 634, "and 684 type sets are bell boxes for use with hand telephone sets, desk stands, etc.")
(C) Extension Ringers--Loud Ringing Bells (531-type, 592-type)

Somehow, it seems awkward to say that the three types of subscriber sets are subsets, wall sets and extension ringers.


Ref:
Material Logistics Customer Premises Equipment and Supplies Catalog, AT&T Information Systems, Issue One, November 1983

Bell System Practices, Section C31.101, Issue 4, Dec., 1956

This is the reason, for which I stated earlier that the usage of these terms need to be considered in the historical context of each period. In many sources a regular table telephone may be referred to as a subscriber set.  However, I never encountered that to be referred to as a subset, IIRC.
Language changes, like habits, but the importance of context has not.

The same applies to technical prescriptions in the BSP.  I observe often the insistence on BSP practices that are not relevant to the time of a piece of equipment being restored.

Just because another document states differently, or another source uses terms differently, doesn't mean such practices or terms are universally valid in one form or another.

[unbeldi]

Although the association of the term subset as a short form of subscriber set is most immediate and seemingly obvious, its usage has been logically more aligned with the meaning of the preposition sub, meaning sub-ordinate, below, beneath, or under, such as its use in the term substation, e.g., electrical substation, which means a subordinate device or installation to another more highly ranked entity, or a part of something bigger. It is this usage that is most commonly assumed for the term subset in telephony. This is very analogous to its usage in mathematics, where a subset is a group of elements as part of a larger selection.

[poplar1]

This is the reason, for which I stated earlier that the usage of these terms need to be considered in the historical context of each period. In many sources a regular table telephone may be referred to as a subscriber set.  However, I never encountered that to be referred to as a subset, IIRC.
Language changes, like habits, but the importance of context has not.

So far today, from 1931 to 1983, I haven't been able to find any reference to "regular table telephones" being called "subscriber sets."
I found  only "desk stands for use with subscriber sets" (C32.401, Issue 1, 6-1-31), "hand telephone sets,"  and "telephone sets."
Another section is for "subscriber" and "telephone sets" for indoor locations. (C31.145, Iss. 3, 5-3-44.) Again in 1944, they don't hesitate to use "bell box" or even "magneto bell box."

I'm not certain that the written terminology changed so much as the common terms used by collectors.

[unbeldi]

This is the reason, for which I stated earlier that the usage of these terms need to be considered in the historical context of each period. In many sources a regular table telephone may be referred to as a subscriber set.  However, I never encountered that to be referred to as a subset, IIRC.
Language changes, like habits, but the importance of context has not.

So far today, from 1931 to 1983, I haven't been able to find any reference to "regular table telephones" being called "subscriber sets."
I found  only "desk stands for use with subscriber sets" (C32.401, Issue 1, 6-1-31), "hand telephone sets,"  and "telephone sets."
Another section is for "subscriber" and "telephone sets" for indoor locations. (C31.145, Iss. 3, 5-3-44.) Again in 1944, they don't hesitate to use "bell box" or even "magneto bell box."

I'm not certain that the written terminology changed so much as the common terms used by collectors.

I think you are only searching Bell system material. On the larger scale, I found such usage and will try collect specific references.

I would agree that the Bell system technical documentation did not use the term in such larger meaning for any formal description of equipment in a consistent manner.

But on the larger scale, frankly, such general usage of the term for any telephone is much more logical than restricting the term to just a part of a telephone.

Again, the correct interpretation of any of these terms largely depends on the context of the presentation.

I certainly agree that reading collectors' accounts is an activity most detrimental to correct understanding of terms.

[tallguy58]

The rule is to always use the proper nomenclature.

"Yea, that's my wooden doohicky that makes my whatchamacallit work.

"But the metal thingamajig is a much later version. Makes the sound outa my thingamabob much clearer."