Local network / intercom with Magneto-based antique phones.

[Treozen]

Afternoon all.

I am looking for some guidance on a project and hope you can assist.

I've long appreciated the "aesthetic" qualities of older phones, but now that I've moved into a three story 1940's home, I'm hoping that I can put some of this older technology back into actual service, and as something other than a wall ornament.  The layout of my house turns communication up or down a level into an exercise in exasperated yelling and so I want to put in some sort of intercom, and I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to do something a little more interesting.  Ideally, I'd have one magneto phone in the study, that via perhaps a small switchboard, could "ring" a similar phone in the upstairs hall, or basement or the barn and with luck, vice-versa and have those phones ring the study.

From some forum posts I've read, I gather this is likely possible, but I'm a little unclear as to the exact process. I have ordered two books I thought might help - "Old Time Telephones" by Ralph Meyer" and "Refurbish Antique Phones" by Ed Michell, but typically I'm restoring or refurbishing cars, not telephones and so I have a few basic questions:

1 - Magneto phones - Are they all able to contact each other, or do I need phones of the same model / manufacturer (I don't own any right now.....ebay here I come). I note that some have a three bar Magneto while others have 5. Some are self contained units while others have a "battery and bell box" that is separate from the mouth and ear pieces.  Are there model numbers or types that I should look for to make this "intercom" idea easier to accomplish? The model of phone I'm most interested in is the sort you'd mount on a wall - not the candlestick or rotary type. 

2 - Most magneto phones on ebay do not have a battery, and I assume 2 things.... 1) you need one for the phone to work, and  2) They Don't carry them at Walmart. I do see period batteries for antique phones as separate auctions though, so can I "power" a period phone with any period dry-cell battery designed for phones, or must I try match the battery with the phone it was originally designed to use? For that matter.... how likely is it that these old batteries will be in any sort of working order?

3 - I really want the entire thing to operate as original - cranking the handle and all that. I don't want to introduce any modern bits unless necessary - is this feasible or am I going to have to create some sort of modern circuit or central battery system?

4 - What wire should I use to link the phones together? I'm guessing there are multiple modern and easily available options, as it is just wire, but thought I'd double check.

I'd appreciate any tips, tricks, thoughts and advice on how to best put this together as well as links you may have to other forum posts or resources that may explain the process (no sense in recreating the wheel).

Thanks in advance,

Allan (Treozen).

[poplar1]

Simpler than a switchboard would be to connect all the phones in parallel, using one pair 26 gauge (or larger) wire.

1--You can mix different models. 3-bar generators are sufficient, but if some are 5-bar or the newer alnico type, that's OK.

2--You don't have to use #6 dry cells. 2 C cells (with a battery holder) at each phone will provide the 3 Volts DC for each transmitter.

3--They should work with the original parts if the phones are complete.

4-- A single pair (2 conductors) to each phone.

[Treozen]

Simpler than a switchboard would be to connect all the phones in parallel, using one pair 26 gauge (or larger) wire.

1--You can mix different models. 3-bar generators are sufficient, but if some are 5-bar or the newer alnico type, that's OK.

2--You don't have to use #6 dry cells. 2 C cells (with a battery holder) at each phone will provide the 3 Volts DC for each transmitter.

3--They should work with the original parts if the phones are complete.

4-- A single pair (2 conductors) to each phone.

Thank you for the response.

So looks like good news all around on my questions. I can mix and match models, and if they lack a battery I can substitute 2 C-Cells, and I think I have holders already (model building). Wiring looks simple and my only question on parallel is, would that not mean that all phones would ring, rather than just a specific one? I would not want to wake my wife upstairs for example, while trying to call down to the basement....

I guess I have the wrong idea about how these phones work - I assumed the crank created a charge in the magneto, which in turn sent charge for storage in the battery....but if the battery powers the transmitter (voice?) what is the magneto doing?.....does it just run the ringer? Forgive the ignorance, I'll know more when the books get here, but that won't be until Sunday.

Allan.

[TelePlay]

The battery provides low DC direct current for the talk circuit. The magneto generates around 90 volts of AC alternating current to ring the ringers on all phones on the parallel line.

Procedure is to lift the handset to see if anyone is talking. If not, you hang up the phone and crank the magneto. Then lift the receiver to wait for the other person to answer. If no answer, hang up and crank again.

[Victor Laszlo]

To your question which asks if all the telephones will ring when any one telephone's magneto is operated:

The answer is "yes" and you will understand why when you consider how these telephones were first used. They were purchased by groups of citizens , such as farmers, who all lived along a common road, or by a railway, with the phones installed along a right-of-way.  Any subscriber would turn the crank an appropriate number of times (rings) to alert any other subscriber, whose ring count was pre-arranged.  A single ring was reserved for a special purpose, so Station A might be assigned 1 long ring, and 1 short ring; station B assigned 1 long and 2 shorts, station C, 1 long, 3 shorts, etc.

So, in your proposed scheme, in keeping with the historic intent, and increasing the "play value" of your system,  all the phones will ring when any one is cranked. The ringing scheme is what lets the intended called party know when to pick up.

All the parties along the line can pick up and listen and talk. That's the definition of a party line in common parlance.  In real life, it was considered rude to listen in when not called, but it happened frequently.  The electrical connections are simplicity itself.  As suggested above, all the phones are connected in parallel along a common pair of wires.

When a call was concluded, it was expected behavior for the last person hanging up his/her receiver to crank the phone with one long ring. That was the signal to all others along the line that the call was over, and another call could be established.  The explanation of the expression "I have to ring off now" used even in today's automated systems, should be obvious to the intuitive student.

Later on, when these single-direction isolated lines became more popular, and intersected in a village or town, a switchboard was purchased and operated by a local business person. The switchboard might be installed in a drug store, or other shop. The "central" board's operator would set up calls that went from one party line to another, and the ring-off signal alerted her to take down the connections.

[Treozen]

The battery provides low DC direct current for the talk circuit. The magneto generates around 90 volts of AC alternating current to ring the ringers on all phones on the parallel line.

Procedure is to lift the handset to see if anyone is talking. If not, you hang up the phone and crank the magneto. Then lift the receiver to wait for the other person to answer. If no answer, hang up and crank again.

That makes sense, thanks. I had thought the crank was to juice-up the batteries, lol

To your question which asks if all the telephones will ring when any one telephone's magneto is operated:

The answer is "yes" and you will understand why when you consider how these telephones were first used.

Yes, I see how that would work, thanks for the history. Its really interesting to see how these devices were used, so far removed from our modern idea of a "phone", yet you can trace threads of vernacular and call etiquette all the way back.

[Owain]

If you haven't bought any magneto phones yet you might be better sticking with a conventional* intercom system, using multiwire cable and a central battery for both talk and ringing DC buzzers.

Most magneto phones will not have selector switch for selectively ringing individual extensions as the point of them was to have ringing and speech on one pair of wires.

* I obviously mean one conventional in the 1940s. Top of the range would be Dictograph.

[TelePlay]

I've long appreciated the "aesthetic" qualities of older phones, but now that I've moved into a three story 1940's home, I'm hoping that I can put some of this older technology back into actual service, and as something other than a wall ornament.  The layout of my house turns communication up or down a level into an exercise in exasperated yelling and so I want to put in some sort of intercom, and I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to do something a little more interesting.  Ideally, I'd have one magneto phone in the study, that via perhaps a small switchboard, could "ring" a similar phone in the upstairs hall, or basement or the barn and with luck, vice-versa and have those phones ring the study.

It seems he pretty much laid out his desire to put a mag phone system in that would match the age and interior of his new to him 1940's phone. Would like to see a exterior image of that home and a few interior shots (hint to Treozen) showing the interior woodwork and such into which he would like to place several WE 317's and a cord board. It also seems he is willing to invest serious money to buy the parts and have them installed (well, serious to someone with my phone budget).

It seems what he wants to do is just the opposite of what I've seen people do (when I worked as a Realtor in the 90s) who would buy absolutely fantastic 1940's homes with oak interior wood work, hard wood floors and spectacular cabinets that include leaded glass doors only to move in and rip out everything, cover the plaster walls with drywall, carpet the floors and paint the woodwork to match the walls. They may have been happy but they cut the resale value of the home by 25-50%.

Anyway, I appreciate this member's desire to undertake this project to add to the character of the home by keeping it all wood. Before and after pictures would also be great (another hint to Treozen). Seems to be a trend here, picking up a cord board and putting it back into service.

[Treozen]

If you haven't bought any magneto phones yet you might be better sticking with a conventional* intercom system, using multiwire cable and a central battery for both talk and ringing DC buzzers.

Most magneto phones will not have selector switch for selectively ringing individual extensions as the point of them was to have ringing and speech on one pair of wires.

* I obviously mean one conventional in the 1940s. Top of the range would be Dictograph.

I agree it would be simpler, but to my mind, not near as interesting. I've wanted to "do something" with the older style phones for a while but until recently, they just didn't fit well in our circa 2006 house. The real objective here is the novelty, charm and fun in putting these magneto phones back into service in a meaningful way, even if the resulting intercom isn't the best, or would have been easier and more effective by other means.

It seems he pretty much laid out his desire to put a mag phone system in that would match the age and interior of his new to him 1940's phone. Would like to see a exterior image of that home and a few interior shots (hint to Treozen)........

It seems what he wants to do is just the opposite of what I've seen people do (when I worked as a Realtor in the 90s) who would buy absolutely fantastic 1940's homes with oak interior wood work, hard wood floors and spectacular cabinets that include leaded glass doors only to move in and rip out everything, cover the plaster walls with drywall, carpet the floors and paint the woodwork to match the walls.

The house is a 3800sqft Tudor-style all brick-built tri-level (finished daylight basement, main and upper floors) on 4.5 acres. The remaining original architecture includes plaster walls in the main and dining rooms, with original coved ceilings and hardwood floors throughout. Wood casing was previously painted and baseboards were also generic white. Two fireplaces are functional, another chimney stack is not currently used - used to be for the coal-burning heat source and kitchen range. We have plans to try reclaim some of that wood-look and to case the arches in wood also (concept picture below). The house is not slathered in wood accents, but I'm not sure that was typical of 1940 anyway. The high-level plan is to introduce (or reintroduce) Tudor styling cues and period-correct furnishings, etc that will help the house keep its charm. We liked our 2006 house just fine, it was a good house, but a bit dull and too "cookie-cutter". Pictures were the realtor sale pictures.