Hi all,
Recently, I finally found a nice example of a Stromberg Carlson 1575, after nearly two years of searching. Now, I would like to set it up to work with my 1A2 KSU. I was told that it can be connected, but it may need slight modifications. It has the original connection apparatus box, with the phone wiring already in it. Now, I need to hook up a 25 pair cable to it. So far, I have noticed that it has only 5 leads per line key, and this is different that my standard wired 66 block with 10 leads. As you can see below, there is a diagram that I am using to hook up the 1575. (Diagram via TCI library).
My problem is, how do I get from the 10 leads to 5 per line? Right now, I am not concerned with the lights, but I want to be able to get dial tone with each key.
If anyone can help steer me in the right direction, the help would be greatly appriciated.
Ben
I wired some of these for a 1A2 system,Still have them.Installed cords with amp connectors (missing the original terminal box)
.Wire the wires shown but I think the lamp grounds were tied together inside the set and used the lamp ground in line 1as a common.I have the "crab claws" in some of the earlier colors if you want to mount on the wall
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on August 14, 2016, 11:25:38 PM
So far, I have noticed that it has only 5 leads per line key, and this is different that my standard wired 66 block with 10 leads. As you can see below, there is a diagram that I am using to hook up the 1575. (Diagram via TCI library).
My problem is, how do I get from the 10 leads to 5 per line? Right now, I am not concerned with the lights, but I want to be able to get dial tone with each key.
A Western Electric
keyset does not have 5 pairs (10 leads) per line! For example, a 2564 has a D30 or D34 mounting cord (30 or 34 leads for 5 lines + ringer + buzzer + spares). Perhaps you are thinking of the 66 blocks for the hangoff cables from a 584 panel? Those do have 5 pairs per line, but only 3 pairs are cross-connected to the stations for each line:
T Tip CO line
input to the key system
R Ring CO line
input to the key system
T Tip CO line output from 400 card to phone
R Ring CO line output from 400 card to phone
A Answer lead
A1 A1 Ground
LG Lamp Ground
L LampB1 Audible signal (buzzer or ringer)
R1 Audible signal (buzzer or ringer)
Only the boldface leads (3 pairs) go to the phone, 3 pairs for each line. However, the A1 lead is associated only with the first key on each set, whether it's a 6-button, 10, 12, 18, 20, 24 or 30-button set. So in a Western Electric set, there are 6 leads for the first key and 5 leads for all the rest. in a 6-button set, these 5 lines are on the first 15 pairs (W-B/B-W through BK-SL/SL-BK).
Still, these 5 leads (T R A - LG L) don't correspond exactly to the 5 leads per line in the S-C 1575. As Robby pointed out, there are some ground leads that are common inside the 1575 that don't match the WE sets.
However, the Tip and Ring of each line (without holding or lamps) appear to be comparable:
T1 and R1 would be the first line, T2/R2 line 2, etc.
S-C S-C
1575 Tel Terminal WE 2564
Cord Box Mtg. Cord
GR T1 W-BL
BR R1 BL-W
RED T2 W-BR
BL-OR R2 BR-W
BL-BLK T3 R-O
BL-WH R3 O-R
OR-BLK T4 R-SL
OR-WH R4 SL-R
GR-BLK T5 BK-G
GR-WH R5 G-BK
In short, thank you!
You have confirmed some of my suspicions: that some wires are shared for each line and the indicated tip/ring for each line. My next step, as mentioned earlier, is to hook up the tip/ring for each line.
Ben
Well, it sure has been a while, but I am slowly working on this.
I have the wires hooked up as poplar1 suggested; however, at this time nothing appears to work. Meaning, I am not getting dial tone when a line is hooked up to my 1a2 nor transmit/receive.
Any ideas on the next step here?
Ben
I would start by making sure that a standard R/T work on the network on this phone (taking the switching out of the equation - not being familiar with the S/C design).
Once that is done, I would trace using an Ohmmeter to make sure nothing is accidentally shorted or open.
After that, I'd start wiring to get 1 line working, then a second (without the 1A2) being able to switch between them (obviously without Hold or lights). Once that's done start adding in the 1A2 equipment.
That would be my plan of attack.
Jim
I have wired several and will try to pull one out of storage.the T,R and L should wire the same as a we set.All Lamp grounds (commons) will be tied together. The A lead on WE is H on the SC you will need to common all the other leads on the other side of the hold circuit A1.Use the same lamps. I put a salvaged amp cord on my sets because the box with the terminals was missing.
I noticed that the A-Lead is known as "Answer" interesting.....Why haven't I heard that before..... what other terminology don't we know about concerning phones...
"...what other terminology don't we know about concerning phones..."
I imagine quite a lot, assuming that you never had the advantage of having worked for TPC.
How about the "balance" lead? or the "E & M" leads?
Or how about sealing current, spudger, line load control, and tramp glass?
J-hook, P-tie, ram's horn, B-connector...?
Why aren't manhole covers square?
LARP?
Quote from: Victor Laszlo on October 08, 2016, 10:43:14 PM
Why aren't manhole covers square?
Is there anybody out there who really doesn't know why manhole covers are round and not square?!!
DF
Quote from: Dave F on October 08, 2016, 11:11:02 PM
Is there anybody out there who really doesn't know why manhole covers are round and not square?!!
DF
You had to have just been reading my mind!!!
Jim
A round manhole cover cannot fall through the hole but a square or rectangular one can
Thank you, Mr Helpful. I was hoping to find out how many people DIDN'T know the answer.
How about the other questions?
Quote from: compubit on October 08, 2016, 07:44:15 PM
I would start by making sure that a standard R/T work on the network on this phone (taking the switching out of the equation - not being familiar with the S/C design).
Once that is done, I would trace using an Ohmmeter to make sure nothing is accidentally shorted or open.
After that, I'd start wiring to get 1 line working, then a second (without the 1A2) being able to switch between them (obviously without Hold or lights). Once that's done start adding in the 1A2 equipment.
That would be my plan of attack.
Jim
Sounds like a good plan. From what you are saying, and from what I have guessed, that I should be getting dial tone right now (if properly wired through) with how I have it hooked up (like a single line phone)?
Ben
Ben
Quote from: Victor Laszlo on October 09, 2016, 02:38:48 PM
Thank you, Mr Helpful. I was hoping to find out how many people DIDN'T know the answer.
How about the other questions?
Victor.....you ask a question but do not want the answer?
I have one, why don't Catfish have kittens!......Curley Howard
quote author=Victor Laszlo
"...what other terminology don't we know about concerning phones..."
I imagine quite a lot, assuming that you never had the advantage of having worked for TPC.
How about the "balance" lead?
one of the control leads in 1A key (I think?)
or the "E & M" leads?
Ear & Mouth - signalling/control on trunks?
Or how about sealing current,
Have heard the term but no idea...enough current to hold the switch relays up?
spudger,
like a sharpened screw driver to push between cables or cable and runway to lace the next cable into place. Also makes me think of "pull through" and flat needles"
line load control,
A scheme to give service to predetermined subscribers and deny most other subscribers service in an emergency when LLC would be activated.
and tramp glass?
No idea
J-hook,
likely a wire support or ring possibly used on poles for bridle wire or maybe even the house hook. Or coukdi T be a "drive hook"?
P-tie,
no idea
ram's horn
how about what we called a "cable horn", a post attached to the side of runway or grid to keep cables from falling off the edge once sewing was no longer done.
B-connector...?
a wire connector that you squash into the twisted connection now used in alarm work. Like "Jelly beans" (scotch-locks) Are used in telephony these days.
Why aren't manhole covers square?
That one has been answered.
LARP?
???
Terry
How about the "balance" lead?
one of the control leads in 1A key (I think?)
>>>correct. Since one side of the line is extended to the station as a "hold" lead, the other side of the line is also extended to, but not terminated in, the tel set. This scheme eliminates an unbalance condition, which could cause hum and cross-talk, if enough footage of the unbalanced side existed in a large system. Note that the term in English is "imbalance" but the term in Telephonese is "unbalance."
or the "E & M" leads?
Ear & Mouth - signalling/control on trunks?
>>>correct
Or how about sealing current,
Have heard the term but no idea...enough current to hold the switch relays up?
>>>an electrical charge that is passed through dry circuits that are switched by relay contacts. The short answer is that it keeps the closed contacts from corroding and causing static.
spudger,
like a sharpened screw driver to push between cables or cable and runway to lace the next cable into place. Also makes me think of "pull through" and flat needles"
>>>nope. It's a non-metallic hand tool, like a sharpened chopstick, used to clear away solder splashes and small wire clippings from between terminals on an MDF, among other places.
line load control,
A scheme to give service to predetermined subscribers and deny most other subscribers service in an emergency when LLC would be activated.
>>>ding ding ding... we have a winner. The very existence of LLC was a secret from the public. Even discussing it was an offense that would result in discipline for rank & file employees.
and tramp glass?
No idea
>>> an arrangement of specialized glass insulators and associated iron support brackets, mounted on a pole, that facilitated the transposition (flipping) of a pair of open-wire conductors. "tramp" was the spoken abbreviation for "transposition."
J-hook,
likely a wire support or ring possibly used on poles for bridle wire or maybe even the house hook. Or coukdi T be a "drive hook"?
>>> close enough
P-tie,
no idea
>>>the metal assembly of several parts (body, slide/loop, friction spacer) that grabs the ends of a drop wire, and allows it to be hooked on the J-hook. Back in the day, they used to be made of copper, and were "replaced" whenever possible with the newer version, made of stainless steel. See if you can guess why there were barrels of copper ones in every telephone man's garage.
ram's horn
how about what we called a "cable horn", a post attached to the side of runway or grid to keep cables from falling off the edge once sewing was no longer done.
>>>a galvanized metal device, made of very thick steel wire, formed into a ram's horn shape, with a central hole, for a lag bolt. It was screwed to the side of the subscriber's house and the P-tie was hooked over and around the ears of the horn.
B-connector...?
a wire connector that you squash into the twisted connection now used in alarm work. Like "Jelly beans" (scotch-locks) Are used in telephony these days.
>>>yes, used by people who generally should not be allowed outside without a leash. Like you said...alarm geeks.
Why aren't manhole covers square?
That one has been answered.
>>>actually, any careful worker with a minimum of intelligence and spatial awareness can get a square or round cover into a square or round opening. There is another more critical reason. If a large vehicle bounces over a loose cover, the cover can flip up into the air, and possibly not come down in the right place. If it were square, there would be even less chance of its landing in the right orientation.
LARP?
???
>>>Well, the exact words are lost in the murky past. It is a pair of wires that is used in OSP to monitor cable air pressure via transponders mounted in manholes and on poles. Probably Local, (or Line) Air, Reporting, Pair (or Program) ? or some permutation thereof.
When there are not enough spare pairs to accomplish the task, a subscriber's working line is bridged onto the transponder, which sends a high resistant ground on the Tip side to the receiving equipment in the CO, the amount of resistance being analogous to the air pressure reading. Sometimes the ground can be heard as a slight hum by a subscriber with excellent hearing. When an unsuspecting repairman is dispatched to repair the hum, and is not made aware of the LARP circuitry, he can chase his tail all day long.
This chasing of the tail, and pulling of the hair, and grinding of the teeth, and rending of the garment, and riding of many miles across vast areas, with many bottles of The Mother Of Bell's oil being wastefully consumeth, results in harsh words being spake unto the dispatcher, who becometh mightily afraid and who doth hideth in terror beneath the Desk of Testing, lest the repairman, being full of anger, and of vitriol, and of evil intentions, enter The Holy House Of Dispatch in order to seek him out, and to chastise him amongst his brethren, and thence to cause him bodily harm to avenge his transgression against the humble and hard-working repairman, who was innocent in the eyes of The Sacred Mother Bell, and who was so sorely used.
Well, it has been a long time since I have posted, or worked on this project. However, I would like to finish it.
Tonight, I hooked up the tip and ring for all five lines. I had it connected through my KSU an outside line, but I got nothing. I plugged my phone analyzer onto line 4 and got no dial tone, but I was able to dial. Should a dial tone come through with just tip and ring hooked up?
Thank you,
Ben
You should get dial tone it just passeses through the ksu even if no voltage to run the ksu. I wired many dark grey and 1white qnd 1 green on my system years ago. I might have tied grounds on lamps and aleads but this will not change dial tone
Are you sure that neither the receiver nor the handset cord is defective?
Ah, I checked the schematic and the headset cord was improperly wired. Now, when I put a line through the KSU, I get a dial tone.
Now, I am trying to compare the schematic of a WE 565 with the phone to figure out the light and buzzer situation. What do C, L, and H stand for in the junction box? What would be the Western Electric 565 equivalent to C, L, and H? Thank you!
those might be common hold and lamp leads