About a week ago, I finally got my 831, 2831 sets from another member here, lots of extra cords for 564 sets,
And some extra keys for 871 sets.
But the 830 sets were stripped out, no cord sets, most key connectors were removed.
So I started going through everything and seeing what I had for complete keys, plugs etc.
Now the task of reconnecting all the leads can start, as I try to figure out what cord sets I will use for these sets.
They can't be 2831 sets any more, unless I use two cord sets in one base, still thinking on that.
But take a look at just the sets I got. I did get handsets line cards (400 type) and as mentioned 564 set cords.
< edit 06-10-21 - photos removed, rotated, reattached >
Cool. Looks good. Very nice you got one rotary dial and one push button. That sure is a lot of very small wires! How will you be using them?
As many times I try to get the right orientation of photos they end up sideways again.
Argh.
Anyway,
Each set will be rewired as a 830 set, that is with one row of keys with Hold being the line keys.
The other row I'm still on the fence, because I don't have the chaining connector to the in the second row, I'll probably be using the other strip as signaling or BLF ( Busy lamp field) with signaling.
Not sure which yet, may be one does that the other..?
Or I could just use the second strip as an option thing, like push a button to turn on a radio speaker or light etc. Each switch would operate a relay for high voltage applications.
I got an extra metal woodgrain face plate in tone, so I put that on the tone dial set. I never liked the flash button mounted in the plastic face plate. See my request for these sets.
As for the extra keys I've got other plans to build a key set just not sure what I'll do, a adjunct or something different.
But it's been thirty years since I've worked on those sets. And given I have to start from scratch it's going to be a while.
The rusted base in trying to restore it by getting the rust off and then clean it up and seal the base to keep it from rusting again.
But the pits are many and deep.
I sanded the rust as best I could, now they are soaking in oil to penetrate the rust, then I'll wipe it down and wire brush the pits out as best I can a,d go from there.
I want to try and save it, because it's modular, and marked Western Electric.
I'll be using feet from a 2565 set that I scrapped.
So here's hoping I can get the rust to stop, then start to rebuild that.
For the touch tone set, it's an ITT, and in great condition. So I'm going to put in a new female connector in the base as it has orignally, then the other key leads will terminate on the big board on the base.
And the base cord I have for that set will be used.
But with the charity that I used to check phones is closed still due to the pandemic, I need something to do that's related to phones.
I hope they will reopen, but I haven't heard anything.
And the couple who have been leaders are both getting up in years, so I'm sure the association will find someone else at some point.
But plastics will be buffed and restored, as will cords be cleaned and brought back to the best I can.
As time goes on I'll be putting some extra parts such as cords up for sale. So if anyone needs cords for their projects let me know I may have a deal for you.
Ok, I cleaned sanded, ground, and cleaned the base again.
Then I clear coated the rust areas, mounted the feet with rivits and also the network is also riveted.
So hopefully the rust stops here. The pictures don't look that great, so take my word for it, it's not as bad as it once was.
Now onto the wiring..
while I was going through my parts box, I found some more parts to these... the key button sets.... do you want them? or did I send enough parts for you?
You got more parts, send them along. I can't make these 831 sets because I'm missing chaining plugs that connect to the keys to interconnect them.
And other parts could be useful as well.
What are you using for rivets? They do not look like pop rivets.
They are indeed pop rivets, Harry. I got a special broad head type years ago for doing feet on telephones, and the ones I used on the feet are extra long.
About a 1/2" long, because the shorter standard is to short and won't catch the base pan correctly.
I've used the shorter on trimline bases, with a small spacer between the head and rivet gun, so it sits better.
So by the time it's done, it holds very well and looks good too.
I used a Steele rivet with steel stem on the network,
And all aluminium on the feet. And the diameter on the feet are a larger diameter than the standard pop rivet.
Ok, Harry wanted info on the rivets I used on my phone, so here are pictures of the packages, now these are old, as in 20 years old, so this brand may not be available anymore I think POP was bought out by Stanley, I can't say for sure.
So the first shot is for the ones I used on the feet.
The one below, I've used on trimline sets feet.
Well it's been a while, got busy doing other stuff.
But my eyes are getting old and it's getting hard to focus on the tiny terminals in these phones.
And boy are there a Lot of wires! This is just one key, the other I'm still contemplating what and how I'm going to do it.
But I got lucky found my old harness from a 830 set I had a while ago.
So I reused the plug and harness in this set and I'll be using the cord as well.
Got it 95% done, a few loose ends to tie up.
I hope you have better luck with those then what I did... got so tired of fighting with all those wires... glad to see they went to a good home!
Well believe it or not, the cords that came on the phone were the same as the ones found on 564/565 sets,
Its just a matter of plugging in the station cord into the right connector.
But I forgot you don't use those, you use several RJ45 type cables custom wired into your sets to make up something.
It's seems to me that having several cords versus one is much clunker that that 25 pair connector the phone company used.
When I first started dabbling in 1A2 phones, I had no KSU, or connectors for the phones nor did I know any thing about what all those wires did.
It was a nightmare for me a guy who knew very little about telephones to start with, I eventually made my own KSU that eventually used the 25 pair cable connectors.
And then I finally got my first, a Comkey system a 416.
Not a true 1A2, but it got me closer.
And the features that electronic system had were great,
the master and slave units were a nice improvement over my clunky set up.
Then I found a ITT 501 at a yard sale and I had to wire the first cable I had to re wire by tracing cut cable that still existed in the system.
Then I used one of the sets that were included and got everything working.
It was that system that I later customised a bit more that tought me what each wire in these sets got connected.
I have come to realize the connector was a great idea instead of each group to have it's own connector.
Just plug and play, very much like the modular connector on modern phones. Taking the guess work out of connecting to a block.
One connector, plug and done!
Having a heck of a time getting the A lead control to work. If I jump the A lead wire common to all buttons and short the lead to a switch on the key, it triggers the line relay and the light comes on. But try as I might to find out why the hook switch doesn't operate with the key and A lead.
So I'm going to have to break out my continuity tester to see if the issue is the hook switch or something else.
Boy it's been obviously too long since I have worked on these sets, even though I have a diagram I'm struggling with bad lighting and old eye syndrome.
This used to be so easy for me to wire these up and get them working. Well weather is cooler and drier this week so far anyway so I'll get back to it in the morning.
But I found only two wiring mistakes (so far) and thought it would work. But no soap, it's daunting with all those leads every where. 6 button sets are so much eaiser to wire up, then these 20 button sets.
But I think I've got some ideas where and what to check and verify connections. I did find a wrong plug location on the key, line four was line five. So I inadvertently swapped those some how.
Got a new light and will employ that tomorrow it's way brighter than the old one. COB leds are awesome, and so bright.
this is why I gave up... all those wires and I had a heck of a time trying to wire it. Thats why I offered them to you. As for the RJ45... have you ever seen a residential version of the RJ21 jack? thats why I had to go with the RJ-45's.. that way, it I ever sell my place, its not a mess of wires for the next person. I tried to future proof my phone system....
Well to get the phone to operate the functions of the KSU you need all the wires connected to the key set and back to the KSU, otherwise it's just a key set and a KSU on the wall, it doesn't do anything.
But a 25 pair cable is simpler than multiples of RJ45 wires running from the phone to the KSU.
And the ribbon connector makes it simple as well, one connector and done, Well one for each station.
But these sets were stripped down to the bare metal so replacing standoffs and etc and then reconnecting all the wires is difficult, especially since its been darn near 25 years since my last phone project this size.
Getting older certainly doesn't help any. But I was given a new desk light over the winter that if forgotten about until I went in the house and started looking for my testers, then I saw the light, so to speak.
I said ah, ha that will brighten up my day.
So I'm encouraged to get to it tomorrow, that will help a lot. I've been wondering is I can wall mount or not.
That's another project, but at least it's much brighter than my smaller one.
Ok, I need wisdom for this next problem.
I found a couple problems solved one by replacing the key because something was drawing power and making lights dim. So I just replaced the key for now, problem solved.
Next is odd, I have a 401B KTU when it's plugged in it immediately triggers on. I've checked and rechecked wiring and can not locate the issue.
I thought it might be the jumper strips installed, no.
I unplug the card and problem goes away.
Replace with a 400 G and it's fine.
It's only when I plug in the 401B intercom card that it triggers. And for the life of me can't understand why.
It works fine with any of my other sets, just that 830 that's giving me fits.
Anyone with experience more than I, can you give me ideas what the heck I need to look for?
I think I have a few loose leads that go to the terminal board are in the wrong places, I have found a couple tus far. But I just can't figure why that card is triggering?
Thanks in advance for the help.
take some pictures! I did!
Are these more parts? I don't understand why your posting pictures here..
Ok, I've isolated the A lead control, I've pulled the plug from the key that operates the line the 401B is on, I've tried to figure out why it's triggering the card..
Nothing I did stopped the problem.
As soon as I unplug the set, it shuts off.
I've checked the wiring to the terminal board, etc nothing stops it?
I truly cannot figure this issue out?
It only effects the 401B nothing else, and the problem followes the card, no matter where it's plugged in.
But everything works as it should with that 832 un plugged.
Does anyone who's done 1A2 have any idea what the heck is causing this?
Could it be the intercom card ?
Do you have another 401B intercom card to try?
Just a guess,
Jim
No that's the only one. And I've thought about that, but why just that phone?
It doesn't act up with any other phone.
I can't figure it out, it's driving me nutty.
I really don't have to use it, as I have the Valcom unit connected for my intercom. And I guess I'll keep moving forward, I don't want to get hung up with this card. If I figure it out may be I'll post the solution here.
Quote from: Key2871 on July 09, 2021, 10:23:40 PM
No that's the only one. And I've thought about that, but why just that phone?
It doesn't act up with any other phone.
That makes it easy.
It is the phone.
I know nothing about key stuff.
But since it is only on the intercom card
and only on this set
then the problem is most likely at the electrical interconnection of this particular telephone to the intercom path.
Just my guess,
Jim
Yes, but where. I've isolated as much as I can think of but it's still acting crazy.
Well like I said it's fine otherwise so I'll just have to figure it's out at some point.
Time to move on. Thanks anyway.
Jim, looks as though your right, the card won't work anymore.. Oh well.
The 401B intercom card is pretty simple card right? A relay and possibly a resistor?
I suspect a common ground issue.
Yes it is simple, no resistor I can see. But a jumper on the board from one trace to another.
I'll delve into what is possibly wrong at some point.
Thing I'm still not understanding is why it would operate with no key pressed, just plug the phone in and it operated. I isolated everything that could possibly cause it but it made no difference.
Any other line card in any slot worked as it should, with the question phone and everything else.
I think a replacement board shouldn't be hard to find at a reasonable price.
The switch folks hang out on TCI. The TCI Mattoon IL Telephone show is mainly switch folks. They play with older stuff but I am sure some of them have some 'modern' Key stuff like you need.
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September 10-11, 2021
https://www.telephonecollectors.org/shows/2021/Mattoon/index.htm
Babybearjs could probably get some info regarding early color code from the same folks.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=24770.msg249776#msg249776
I went to it in 2019. small show, mainly switchers. It was a lot of fun.
JMO,
Jim
Thanks, but I really don't use it anyway, because I use a Valcom RT19 for intercom. I was just curious as to the schematic looked for the card, so I can easily understand what I'm looking at on the underside of the board.
If it's dead, it's dead so be it.
Hey Ken how'd your summer project turn out? Any updates?
Actually got very busy over the summer, and had some arthritis issues that kept me out of the shed, it was either Hot or cold and rainy.
But I've got plan B lined up hoping soon, setting up a portable table in the house and connect the KSU cable to the house, and I'll have my own setup inside where it's warm.
Because anyone with arthritis knows, cold gets in and tends to slow you down.
I've been kicking myself for a couple months and itching to get back to that again.
So with the holiday fast approaching, it might be a couple weeks, both my young boys will be home from school so I don't want to get involved until after they back on a M-F schedule. My 11 year old gets into stuff he shouldn't.
I didn't want to post this information before, in case I got side tracked again. But I am getting antsy to get back at it, just not in a freezing cold shed..
But when I get set up inside the house I'll post some info then. Hoping very soon..
Another thing, I haven't jumped into the 401B card at all.
But from what I've seen of the schematic I think a coil failed on the board relay that's why it's not working anymore.
So I'm probably better off with a newer card.
Because I'm sure finding a coil/ relay set up is not going to be easy or plausible for replacing.
Thanks for the update, I am sorry about the arthritis, you need a heater in that shed!
Do you need some 100 pair from the shed to the house?
I also got too busy but am really close to finishing the Seriss 1A2 KTU board build:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=25184.msg248462#msg248462
I like the idea of the Seriss board but i'd like to design a modern 'open source' pi/asterisk 'line' and intercom/interphone linecard that fit a shoebox system, and use a regular key power supply, so collectors can power lots of phones.
Cheers
--Stephen
No, 100 pair would be too large. My 25 is sufficient for my needs.
Yea heat would be nice, but a luxury at this point.
I'm 65, well just about. And all my hard work tore my body a part now I'm paying for all that hard work again.
So I tell my kids work smart, not hard, don't take risks.
But I've been thinking for months about what I can do to set up a portable table in the house, I've meant to do it before now but oh well, now I've got the itch to get at least the one set done.
Wish I had the base cord for a 832, but the ones I had years ago didnt get used and now there gone.
But I do have a few cords I can use for an 830, 2830 set. But I need to crimp spades onto the end in the set because the proper end was cut off.
That's going to take time to do.
Thanks for the interest, I'll post more hoping shortly.
Well the key I replaced in the set did the trick.
I completed the wiring of the set and test rang each line I have in the KSU and each works. The dial intercom works.
I thought I had put in a previous post I suspected the key with hold that was in the set.
I can't see any obvious shorts or issues. But clearly it has issues.
But when I used another I had the problem went away I was having with the 401B. The card is dead. But any line card would trip when I plugged in the set.
Any way after a long period of wondering I just tried the key, and the newer one solved the issues.
As for The top row of keys, it will be wired as a BLF, as I did in a similar set I did years ago, I used the line lamps at 10 volts, using a resistor and a diode at each set using the A lead power to turn the lamp on in the 2832 set, the resistor lowered the voltage 10 ten volts down from 24 so it wouldn't blow the lights out like candles.
At that point I didn't have any 24 volt 51 type lamps.
I got ten in a bunch of parts after I designed my BLF at that time.
But since I already have the parts left over and the schematic I drew to do the field I am planning to just stay with that.
No pictures yet I'm still tidying up the wiring in the set, and hand buffing and cleaning keys, caps face plate etc.
Don't have a type writer to do the desis as I had before, but don't really need any at this point as I have no active incoming lines. And the price of service really kind of eliminates that in the future.
Hoping at some point I can use an Xlink to use my sell phone as a line but that's not too soon either.
I hope when you get your seris board system done we can see that in operation. That would be a neat system for those who don't have a shoe box unit, or any KSU or the space. When I first saw the video on u tube I thought what a cool idea, but I thought they were being offered assembled and ready to run.
But there is also a special thing about having a real KSU to work on and connect up that's really fun too.