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and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

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My summer project begins.

Started by Key2871, June 10, 2021, 02:45:24 PM

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About a week ago, I finally got my 831, 2831 sets from another member here, lots of extra cords for 564 sets,
And some extra keys for 871 sets.
But the 830 sets were stripped out, no cord sets, most key connectors were removed.
So I started going through everything and seeing what I had for complete keys, plugs etc.

Now the task of reconnecting all the leads can start, as I try to figure out what cord sets I will use for these sets.
They can't be 2831 sets any more, unless I use two cord sets in one base, still thinking on that.

But take a look at just the sets I got. I did get handsets line cards (400 type) and as mentioned 564 set cords.

< edit 06-10-21 - photos removed, rotated, reattached >


Cool. Looks good. Very nice you got one rotary dial and one push button. That sure is a lot of very small wires! How will you be using them?
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"


As many times I try to get the right orientation of photos they end up sideways again.
Each set will be rewired as a 830 set, that is with one row of keys with Hold being the line keys.
The other row I'm still on the fence, because I don't have the chaining connector to the in the second row, I'll probably be using the other strip as signaling or BLF ( Busy lamp field) with signaling.
Not sure which yet, may be one does that the other..?
Or I could just use the second strip as an option thing, like push a button to turn on a radio speaker or light etc. Each switch would operate a relay for high voltage applications.

I got an extra metal woodgrain face plate in tone, so I put that on the tone dial set. I never liked the flash button mounted in the plastic face plate. See my request for these sets.

As for the extra keys I've got other plans to build a key set just not sure what I'll do, a adjunct or something different.

But it's been thirty years since I've worked on those sets. And given I have to start from scratch it's going to be a while.

The rusted base in trying to restore it by getting the rust off and then clean it up and seal the base to keep it from rusting again.
But the pits are many and deep.
I sanded the rust as best I could, now they are soaking in oil to penetrate the rust, then I'll wipe it down and wire brush the pits out as best I can a,d go from there.

I want to try and save it, because it's modular, and marked Western Electric.
I'll be using feet from a 2565 set that I scrapped.
So here's hoping I can get the rust to stop, then start to rebuild that.
For the touch tone set, it's an ITT, and in great condition. So I'm going to put in a new female connector in the base as it has orignally, then the other key leads will terminate on the big board on the base.
And the base cord I have for that set will be used.
But with the charity that I used to check phones is closed still due to the pandemic, I need something to do that's related to phones.

I hope they will reopen, but I haven't heard anything.
And the couple who have been leaders are both getting up in years, so I'm sure the association will find someone else at some point.

But plastics will be buffed and restored, as will cords be cleaned and brought back to the best I can.

As time goes on I'll be putting some extra parts such as cords up for sale. So if anyone needs cords for their projects let me know I may have a deal for you.


Ok, I cleaned sanded, ground, and cleaned the base again.
Then I clear coated the rust areas, mounted the feet with rivits and also the network is also riveted.
So hopefully the rust stops here. The pictures don't look that great, so take my word for it, it's not as bad as it once was.

Now onto the wiring..


while I was going through my parts box, I found some more parts to these... the key button sets.... do you want them? or did I send enough parts for you?


You got more parts, send them along. I can't make these 831 sets because I'm missing chaining plugs that connect to the keys to interconnect them.
And other parts could be useful as well.


What are you using for rivets? They do not look like pop rivets.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"


They are indeed pop rivets, Harry. I got a special broad head type years ago for doing feet on telephones, and the ones I used on the feet are extra long.
About a 1/2" long, because the shorter standard is to short and won't catch the base pan correctly.
I've used the shorter on trimline bases, with a small spacer between the head and rivet gun, so it sits better.
So by the time it's done, it holds very well and looks good too.
I used a Steele rivet with steel stem on the network,
And all aluminium on the feet. And the diameter on the feet are a larger diameter than the standard pop rivet.


Ok, Harry wanted info on the rivets I used on my phone, so here are pictures of the packages, now these are old, as in 20 years old, so this brand may not be available anymore I think POP was bought out by Stanley, I can't say for sure.
So the first shot is for the ones I used on the feet.
The one below, I've used on trimline sets feet.



Well it's been a while, got busy doing other stuff.
But my eyes are getting old and it's getting hard to focus on the tiny terminals in these phones.
And boy are there a Lot of wires! This is just one key, the other I'm still contemplating what and how I'm going to do it.

But I got lucky found my old harness from a 830 set I had a while ago.
So I reused the plug and harness in this set and I'll be using the cord as well.
Got it 95% done, a few loose ends to tie up.



I hope you have better luck with those then what I did... got so tired of fighting with all those wires... glad to see they went to a good home!


Well believe it or not, the cords that came on the phone were the same as the ones found on 564/565 sets,
Its just a matter of plugging in the station cord into the right connector.
But I forgot you don't use those, you use several RJ45 type cables custom wired into your sets to make up something.
It's seems to me that having several cords versus one is much clunker that that 25 pair connector the phone company used.

When I first started dabbling in 1A2 phones, I had no KSU, or connectors for the phones nor did I know any thing about what all those wires did.

It was a nightmare for me a guy who knew very little about telephones to start with, I eventually made my own KSU that eventually used the 25 pair cable connectors.
And then I finally got my first, a Comkey system  a 416.
Not a true 1A2, but it got me closer.
And the features that electronic system had were great,
the master and slave units were a nice improvement over my clunky set up.
Then I found a ITT 501 at a yard sale and I had to wire the first cable I had to re wire by tracing cut cable that still existed in the system.

Then I used one of the sets that were included and got everything working.

It was that system that I later customised a bit more that tought me what each wire in these sets got connected.

I have come to realize the connector was a great idea instead of each group to have it's own connector.
Just plug and play, very much like the modular connector on modern phones. Taking the guess work out of connecting to a block.
One connector, plug and done!


Having a heck of a time getting the A lead control to work. If I jump the A lead wire common to all buttons and short the lead to a switch on the key, it triggers the line relay and the light comes on. But try as I might to find out why the hook switch doesn't operate with the key and A lead.
So I'm going to have to break out my continuity tester to see if the issue is the hook switch or something else.
Boy it's been obviously too long since I have worked on these sets, even though I have a diagram I'm struggling with bad lighting and old eye syndrome.

This used to be so easy for me to wire these up and get them working. Well weather is cooler and drier this week so far anyway so I'll get back to it in the morning.

But I found only two wiring mistakes (so far) and thought it would work. But no soap, it's daunting with all those leads every where. 6 button sets are so much eaiser to wire up, then these 20 button sets.

But I think I've got some ideas where and what to check and verify connections. I did find a wrong plug location on the key, line four was line five. So I inadvertently swapped those some how.
Got a new light and will employ that tomorrow it's way brighter than the old one. COB leds are awesome, and so bright.


this is why I gave up... all those wires and I had a heck of a time trying to wire it. Thats why I offered them to you. As for the RJ45... have you ever seen a residential version of the RJ21 jack? thats why I had to go with the RJ-45's.. that way, it I ever sell my place, its not a mess of wires for the next person. I tried to future proof my phone system....


Well to get the phone to operate the functions of the KSU you need all the wires connected to the key set and back to the KSU, otherwise it's just a key set and a KSU on the wall, it doesn't do anything.

But a 25 pair cable is simpler than multiples of RJ45 wires running from the phone to the KSU.
And the ribbon connector makes it simple as well, one connector and done, Well one for each station.
But these sets were stripped down to the bare metal so  replacing standoffs and etc and then reconnecting all the wires is difficult, especially since its been darn near 25 years since my last phone project this size.

Getting older certainly doesn't help any. But I was given a new desk light over the winter that if forgotten about until I went in the house and started looking for my testers, then I saw the light, so to speak.
I said ah, ha that will brighten up my day.

So I'm encouraged to get to it tomorrow, that will help a lot. I've been wondering is I can wall mount or not.
That's another project, but at least it's much brighter than my smaller one.