Hi,
Quick question, I am in need of 2 548a caps (2 500's tested and need new caps) and I wanted to know where you guys buy them.
I looked on amazon and eBay and couldn't find one, I doubt it has been discontinued but... Having an issue finding one, and wanted to see if ya'll could help.
Ben
I used to buy them at Radio Shack (years ago)
Jim
Jameco
Okay.. Thanks!!
Ben
Radio Shack has an almost non-existent supply of capacitors these days. Even Radio Shack's mail order sucks. The best way any more is mail order. As I mentioned before, Jameco is probably the best for my needs. You might try Mouser and perhaps some others, but Jameco has a good supply, reasonable prices, and fast turn around, and they deal in small quatities.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 28, 2013, 08:12:30 PM
Radio Shack has an almost non-existent supply of capacitors these days. Even Radio Shack's mail order sucks. The best way any more is mail order. As I mentioned before, Jameco is probably the best for my needs. You might try Mouser and perhaps some others, but Jameco has a good supply, reasonable prices, and fast turn around, and they deal in small quatities.
I will probably use Jaemeco.. But is 548a a model number or microferits?
Ben
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on October 28, 2013, 08:15:09 PMmicroferits?
Isn't that a breed of rodents? ???
Unless you mean micro
Farads, named after the physicist Michael Faraday... :D
Yes....Microferits ;D
A new breed of miniature weasels! For condo living where space is a concern :o
I don't recognize 548a, so it must be a part number. Normal telephone related caps are usually .5 to 2 microFarads, and are usually rated at 250 volts. That is for the talking and ringer caps. There are, of course, many, many other possible values.
What capacitor are you trying to replace and do you have a photo?
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 29, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
I don't recognize 548a, so it must be a part number.
548A is the designation Western Electric used for the ringing capacitor in several products, such as the E1 wall-mount external ringer for the Princesses. It was also specified as the replacement part for the ringing capacitor in the 425B network in case of failure.
The ringing capacitor in the 425B network had a value of 0.45μF. So you can substitute it with a capacity of about 0.5μF. Voltage rating of 250V should be adequate.
If the internal capacitor is open connect the replacement across screw terminals A and K. If it is shorted, you have to use an external connector to connect to either the red/slate or the slate ringer lead, leaving the other on the terminal. WE had a specific connector product for this operation, if you want to be 100% authentic, see BSPs.
Then it would be a .5 mF 250 volt replacement. Ben: You say you have (2) 500 phones with bad ringer caps? They don't often go out. How did you test them?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390687835528 seems like a deal hard to beat for a small quantity (10).
... unless you want to buy 20 for even less: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390687963151
and at a higher voltage rating.
Quote from: unbeldi on October 29, 2013, 04:23:57 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390687835528 seems like a deal hard to beat for a small quantity (10).
Problem is, it's location is in china, so expect them to arrive in about a month... :D
Quote from: twocvbloke on October 29, 2013, 04:25:22 PM
Quote from: unbeldi on October 29, 2013, 04:23:57 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390687835528 seems like a deal hard to beat for a small quantity (10).
Problem is, it's location is in china, so expect them to arrive in about a month... :D
That's often not true. I have got small packages from China in 10 days. But who is in a hurry with old phones anyways?
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 29, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
I don't recognize 548a, so it must be a part number. Normal telephone related caps are usually .5 to 2 microFarads, and are usually rated at 250 volts. That is for the talking and ringer caps. There are, of course, many, many other possible values.
What capacitor are you trying to replace and do you have a photo?
Yes I believe so, because nothing showed up. I looked in my troubleshooting prints I have organized in a binder (that I finally got out of storage.)
I'm trying to replace the ring cap. from a c4 ringer.
Ben
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 29, 2013, 03:42:12 PM
Then it would be a .5 mF 250 volt replacement. Ben: You say you have (2) 500 phones with bad ringer caps? They don't often go out. How did you test them?
Well. I checked the wiring, and everything else works well so I suspected that be the issue.
Though what is suspicious is they are both on 1950's ringers..
Ben
So.. Your saying this is the right one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390687835528
Thank you!!
Try swapping the ringers with ones from a known working phone, see if they work in the other phone and vice versa.
Quote from: HarrySmith on October 29, 2013, 06:43:13 PM
Try swapping the ringers with ones from a known working phone, see if they work in the other phone and vice versa.
Alright, so if it rings, what would I do to the old one?
And if it doesn't, would it be the capacitor at fault?
Ben
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on October 29, 2013, 06:23:34 PM
So.. Your saying this is the right one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390687835528
Thank you!!
Yes, that is a correct cap.
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on October 29, 2013, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on October 29, 2013, 06:43:13 PM
Try swapping the ringers with ones from a known working phone, see if they work in the other phone and vice versa.
Alright, so if it rings, what would I do to the old one?
And if it doesn't, would it be the capacitor at fault?
Ben
The biggest reason for a ringer not working is due to wiring. If you have already checked to make sure the ringer is connected correctly, then it could also be the ringer coils. Just seems odd that you would have two phones both with bad capacitors. What I did not hear you say is whether you have done a definitive check of the capacitors with a capacitor checker. Many digital ohm meters these days have capacitor checkers. If you don't have one, I am not suggesting you go out and buy one, but I also would check the wiring and the ringer coils before assuming the problem was automatically the fault of the capacitors.
You have probably been through the wiring before, but here is what a 500 should be wired like:
Line cord red to L2
Line cord green to L1
Ringer Red to L2
Ringer Black to L1
Ringer Slate/Red to A
Ringer Slate to K
Often you will see a phone with the black ringer wire connected to G along with a yellow line cord wire. If that is the case, you can do one of two things:
1. Either move the black wire from G to L1 as indicated above; -or-
2. Connect the green and yellow wires together at the wall.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 29, 2013, 09:37:23 PM
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on October 29, 2013, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on October 29, 2013, 06:43:13 PM
Try swapping the ringers with ones from a known working phone, see if they work in the other phone and vice versa.
Alright, so if it rings, what would I do to the old one?
And if it doesn't, would it be the capacitor at fault?
Ben
The biggest reason for a ringer not working is due to wiring. If you have already checked to make sure the ringer is connected correctly, then it could also be the ringer coils. Just seems odd that you would have two phones both with bad capacitors. What I did not hear you say is whether you have done a definitive check of the capacitors with a capacitor checker. Many digital ohm meters these days have capacitor checkers. If you don't have one, I am not suggesting you go out and buy one, but I also would check the wiring and the ringer coils before assuming the problem was automatically the fault of the capacitors.
You have probably been through the wiring before, but here is what a 500 should be wired like:
Line cord red to L2
Line cord green to L1
Ringer Red to L2
Ringer Black to L1
Ringer Slate/Red to A
Ringer Slate to K
Often you will see a phone with the black ringer wire connected to G along with a yellow line cord wire. If that is the case, you can do one of two things:
1. Either move the black wire from G to L1 as indicated above; -or-
2. Connect the green and yellow wires together at the wall.
AHHHH!! I am sorry for the confusion, you are right.. I just moved the wire.. I guess I missed that, maybe I should have taken a closer look.
Though, the other phone that I was talking about, the one I also thought had a bad cap. Well, it was very temperamental when it rang. It rang and I picked up and used it. Then the next day it didn't. Then after that it did.. And now it won't at all, so I believe that needs a new cap.
Ben
On that intermittent ringer, check the bias spring setting too.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on October 29, 2013, 09:52:44 PM
On that intermittent ringer, check the bias spring setting too.
Ah, I will.
Even though it completely stopped working?
Ben
What everyone is saying is that you need to isolate the problem:
(1) Test a previously known good 500 to make sure it rings OK.
(2) If so, remove the ringer from this working phone and install it in the phone with a suspected bad capacitor.
(3) If the transplanted ringer rings, then the problem is probably not an open capacitor in the network.
OKAY!!
I will do that, and the troubleshooting all makes sense to me.
But I must do it later in the week when I have more time. :)
Ben
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on October 29, 2013, 09:50:18 PM
Though, the other phone that I was talking about, the one I also thought had a bad cap. Well, it was very temperamental when it rang. It rang and I picked up and used it. Then the next day it didn't. Then after that it did.. And now it won't at all, so I believe that needs a new cap.
While its not ringing could be anything, what you said sure sounds like a loose wire or a broken wire.
In case you're wondering what these capacitors look like inside the 425 network...
here is a view of the four stacked on top of each other. The bottom package is the ringing condenser with its leads going to the A and K terminals. This network was made in 1955.
Then next two up are the capacitors in the balancing circuit of the network, first the 0.4 μF, about the same size as #1, and then the large 2 μF capacitor. The tiny one on the top is the 0.1 μF unit in the RF interference filter across the dial pulse contacts.
The odds that you have two phones with bad capacitors are really not very good. Being "temperamental" when ringing can have multiple sources. What are you using to ring them? Low voltages combined with poor, dirty contacts may be culprits, assuming your basic wiring is correct. If in doubt remove the black and red ringer wires from their posts and connect them directly to your line with test clips without the telephone (audio) itself connected. Try releasing the bias spring on the ringers.
The second image is the circuit of just the ringer in the 500 set. You can see the ringer coil is split into two parts, but both are wound together on the same core of the ringer. The capacitor is between them on terminals A and K.
This alone is sufficient to test your ringers.
My 9/54 500 won't ring. I noticed the S/R and S wires from the coil were transposed on terminals A and K. My 11/56 500 is wired that way and rings fine. I switched these two leads on the 9/54 and it made no difference.
I have a question about switching the ringers as has been recommended previously in this discussion. Should the entire ringer assembly be switched out, or just the coil?
I'm poised to purchase a lot of 10 capacitors on eBay if switching the ringer doesn't resolve the problem. Would these be soldered onto A & K since they don't have spades, or is there another preferred method?
Quote from: rp2813 on February 06, 2014, 02:20:53 AM
My 9/54 500 won't ring. I noticed the S/R and S wires from the coil were transposed on terminals A and K. My 11/56 500 is wired that way and rings fine. I switched these two leads on the 9/54 and it made no difference.
I have a question about switching the ringers as has been recommended previously in this discussion. Should the entire ringer assembly be switched out, or just the coil?
I'm poised to purchase a lot of 10 capacitors on eBay if switching the ringer doesn't resolve the problem. Would these be soldered onto A & K since they don't have spades, or is there another preferred method?
It makes no difference as to which terminals (A-K) the slate and slate/red wires are connected to and the wires of the capacitor can easily be formed around the terminal screws.
It is not recommended to remove the coils. It has been discussed previously that they can lose their magnetism. Best to replace the ringer as an assembly.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 06, 2014, 08:43:15 AM
It is not recommended to remove the coils. It has been discussed previously that they can lose their magnetism. Best to replace the ringer as an assembly.
I agree ...totaly.and don't lose a strip of metal nor when you clean and do not expose to magnetic fields...
When the original capacitor is open (no ring), you can just connect the new cap. to A and K.
If the original capacitor is shorted (trips ring--busies out line), you can use either A or K + a spare terminal: For example, connect the capacitor and slate-red ringer wire to A, and the other capacitor lead and slate ringer wire to G.
Thanks for the clarification. The leads on the capacitors don't look long enough to wrap around the terminal screws, but that may be a scale issue that isn't addressed in the photos.
I'll change out the entire ringer assembly and hope that it doesn't fix the problem. I'll be really bummed out if the birthday ringer is bad.
As long as the new capacitor is connected to the slate-red and slate ringer wires, you don't have to use any screw terminals.
Some Capacitor Sources:
Esold2000 - Ebay - 10 pcs CBB 105J 400v CBB21 1 uf - $2.99 Free Ship - Ebay # 151120070175
Esold2000 - Ebay - 10 pcs CBB 205J 400v CBB21 2 uf $4.99 Free Ship - Ebay # 151120118637
uincelec - Ebay - 20pcs CBB capacitor metallized 0.47 uF - $3.50 + $1.50 ship - Ebay # 151225220752?
Metallized Film caps work great. Simply order the value you need. There are many eBay sellers who sell these. Best choice is to order types with longer leads than those designed for PCB mounting. These are certainly not the only sources on eBay. All of these are from China and may take some time to arrive. There are a number listed in the US, but for more $'s.
Dave
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 06, 2014, 08:43:15 AM
It is not recommended to remove the coils. It has been discussed previously that they can lose their magnetism. Best to replace the ringer as an assembly.
Actually it is not harmful to replace the electromagnet (coil) on a C-type ringer.
What is admonished is breaking the "circuit" of the permanent magnet and frame assembly, since if it is removed, it may weaken or lose its magnetism.
Don't you "break the circuit" if you remove the coil from the frame?
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 06, 2014, 04:37:08 PM
Don't you "break the circuit" if you remove the coil from the frame?
The laminations that run through the coil are not magnetic unless it is energized by ringing current.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 06, 2014, 04:37:08 PM
Don't you "break the circuit" if you remove the coil from the frame?
I think the most likely way to "break the circuit" is to remove the magnet, or otherwise take the frame apart that conducts the magnetism of the permanent magnet.
Apparently the non-magnetic part that goes through the coil doesn't actually conduct the permanent magnetism.
Thanks for the information. It sounds like I can change out the coil assemblies to test the network, which is much easier than pulling the entire ringer.
I have one of the capacitor items Dave suggested in my eBay cart in case I need to order them.
Quote from: rp2813 on February 07, 2014, 01:00:09 AM
Thanks for the information. It sounds like I can change out the coil assemblies to test the network, which is much easier than pulling the entire ringer.
I have one of the capacitor items Dave suggested in my eBay cart in case I need to order them.
It may prove to be easier to check the coil with a DVM or other continuity tester to make certain that it has continuity instead of removing it from the ringer-frame.
However if you do have another ringer you can test it by temporarily hooking it up to the sets terminals without removing the presently installed ringer.
And of course you do have the red and black wires connected to the proper line wires?
Good suggestion, and yes, the red and black are connected where they should be.
Well whaddaya know -- a call came in today and the problem ringer rang! I hadn't even touched it yet to check operation with a known good ringer. I had it adjusted to its lowest setting so have bumped it up some. I never tested it with the cover off; I just listened for the striker rattling, heard nothing, so jumped to what may have been the wrong conclusion.
This may point to the capacitor if it turns out to be intermittent. I'll keep an ear on things, and will remove the housing if any further investigation is required.
Quote from: DavePEI on February 06, 2014, 02:31:59 PM
Some Capacitor Sources:
Esold2000 - Ebay - 10 pcs CBB 105J 400v CBB21 1 uf - $2.99 Free Ship - Ebay # 151120070175
Esold2000 - Ebay - 10 pcs CBB 205J 400v CBB21 2 uf $4.99 Free Ship - Ebay # 151120118637
uincelec - Ebay - 20pcs CBB capacitor metallized 0.47 uF - $3.50 + $1.50 ship - Ebay # 151225220752?
My supply of spares, all found on eBay... .47 ufd, 1 ufd, and 2 ufd. All Metallized Film caps. Look for those with longer leads, and not PCB mount.
Dave
I dismantled a faulty ATX computer power supply not too long back (no reason for it, I just like to take things apart!!), and it just so happened to have a .47uF cap as a mains filter cap, haven't tested it out on a ringer yet, but it has no signs of damage, so that's a useful spare, though why they used that size of cap in there I don't know, usually they use the little ceramic "pillow" things across the Live and Neutral... ???
Still, a handy spare at least... ;D
Nice haul, Dave!
Are those Sprague 'Orange Drops? they certainly look like it. (drool). Some of the best for certain, high-accuracy things. Guitar tube amplifier mods / repair come to mind, right off the top.
Best regards!
Quote from: Mr. Bones on February 21, 2014, 09:57:53 PM
Nice haul, Dave!
Are those Sprague 'Orange Drops? they certainly look like it. (drool). Some of the best for certain, high-accuracy things. Guitar tube amplifier mods / repair come to mind, right off the top.
Best regards!
No, they aren't - they are a generic Chinese version, but similar. I do have my own private reserve of Orange Drops out in my Electronics work shop, though. I also have some Sprague Black Beauty and Bumble Bee caps, all great tone capacitors. Too nice to waste in a phone :) Not sure what values I still have in them - left overs from the years I serviced TVs and Radios.
By the way, Happy Birthday!
Dave
I received more 1 uf capacitors to add to the supply today. As this is more than I will ever need, I am offering them to you for the cost of postage only (Maximum 2 per person). The three values are .47 uf, 1 uf, and 2 uf. I have no idea exactly what they will cost to send to the US, but if I can get them sent as a first class letter it should be minimal. However, the P.O. is getting contrary and saying First Class has to be paper only. That being said, I have managed to send a few components first class lately. If not, they should go small packet rate...
These are Chinese made mylar film capacitors with good lead length for making connections.
Anyway, it is just an offer in case it helps someone. I reserve the right to cut off the offer if my supply dwindles too much. Please state the value you need.
I now have:
10 - 47 ufd 200 v
40 - .47 ufd 400 v
50 - 1 ufd 400 v
10 - 2 ufd 400 v
See photo below...
Of course, if you need more than a couple, you can order them from the eBay links below, but the delivery time from China is about a month (if not longer).
Dave