I.D.-ing your 300 series phone...

[Babybearjs]

I have noticed on ebay recently that a lot of 300 series phones show up mismarked... Do you know what the differences are? are you smart enough to spot a mismarked gem?? this also applies to the 500 series, but is more ovious to catch....
Ton some phones, the clues are hidden inside the phone...  a lot of the time people list the 300 series phone as a F1, which is the HANDSET model number, Not the Phones Model.... I have caught a lot of 307's that way in the past.... do you know what to look for???

[George Knighton]

No, I don't know what to look for!

:-)

I've made some interesting mistakes, like buying an "Ivory 302" that turned out to be an Ivory 306 H5.  

It didn't matter too much, since it had already been re-wired to ring on every call, and it was in decent enough condition to either use or show.

Right now I'm making mistakes about how to get 701's and 702's to light up, and why they have to be wired differently.  :-)

[twocvbloke]

It's even worse over here when people list foreign phones as "GPO" or ABS plastic phones as "Bakelite", people just aren't that bothered about accuracy...

I do think about buying a phone mis-described an setting off a "Not as described" refund claim, just to make a point to the seller...

[Babybearjs]

Interesting...so the brits have the same problem too... and I thought we were the only ones that didn't mark things correctly! anyway, getting a hidden treasure sure is fun when things aren't marked... does anyone know if there is a effort to show how to properly ID a telephone by its proper model number if it has no marking??

[poplar1]

No, I don't know what to look for!

:-)

I've made some interesting mistakes, like buying an "Ivory 302" that turned out to be an Ivory 306 H5.  

It didn't matter too much, since it had already been re-wired to ring on every call, and it was in decent enough condition to either use or show.

Right now I'm making mistakes about how to get 701's and 702's to light up, and why they have to be wired differently.  :-)

I posted a response in the topic about Princess transformers in December; here it is again:

**********************************************************

On a hardwired 702B, black and white line cord leads are for the lamp.
On a  hardwired 701B, and fully modular 702BM,  black and yellow leads are for the lamp.

On both, the transformer connects to terminals 3 and 4 inside the phone.

Based on BSP Section 502-701-100 Issue 1, Feb. 1970

************************************************************

The 701B used yellow and black because the first four colors of the old color code are red, green, yellow and black. There was no ringer in the 701B.

The 702B used the yellow wire for the black ringer lead, just as in a 500, so that the ringer could be used on party lines with divided ringing (Tip to Ground or Ring to Ground). So they needed a new color (white)  for the lamp since red, green and yellow now followed the standard wiring of a 500.

When phones went modular in the mid-1970s, the black ringer wire was moved to L1. In order to use a 4-conductor cord and 4-conductor 623P4 jack, the yellow and black were used for the lamp. If on a party line, you could still get by with 4 conductors because one side of the transformer output was connected to ground (only on party lines), and the yellow lead was then used for both ringer and lamp.

[poplar1]

Interesting...so the brits have the same problem too... and I thought we were the only ones that didn't mark things correctly! anyway, getting a hidden treasure sure is fun when things aren't marked... does anyone know if there is a effort to show how to properly ID a telephone by its proper model number if it has no marking??

John,

If you mean WE 300 series, the code for the Tel Set Mounting is visible either on the back (early metal sets) or inside (through the mounting cord hole) without opening the phone.

H-1 for 302 sets
H-3 for 304 sets
H-4 for 305 sets?
H-5 for 306 sets
H-7 for 307 sets
?     for 402 sets
?     for 410 sets
AA1 for 250 set (no induction coil, condenser, or ringer)
AB1 for 251 set

[twocvbloke]

Interesting...so the brits have the same problem too... and I thought we were the only ones that didn't mark things correctly!

Unfortunately, stupidity is all too common in the human race...

At least there's always the option of asking the sellers if there are any stamps, markings or scribblings on the base or parts to ID them properly, reserving the descriptions of ABS being bakelite for a later time...

[George Knighton]

**********************************************************

On a hardwired 702B, black and white line cord leads are for the lamp.
On a  hardwired 701B, and fully modular 702BM,  black and yellow leads are for the lamp.

On both, the transformer connects to terminals 3 and 4 inside the phone.

Based on BSP Section 502-701-100 Issue 1, Feb. 1970

************************************************************

The 701B used yellow and black because the first four colors of the old color code are red, green, yellow and black. There was no ringer in the 701B.

The 702B used the yellow wire for the black ringer lead, just as in a 500, so that the ringer could be used on party lines with divided ringing (Tip to Ground or Ring to Ground). So they needed a new color (white)  for the lamp since red, green and yellow now followed the standard wiring of a 500.

When phones went modular in the mid-1970s, the black ringer wire was moved to L1. In order to use a 4-conductor cord and 4-conductor 623P4 jack, the yellow and black were used for the lamp. If on a party line, you could still get by with 4 conductors because one side of the transformer output was connected to ground (only on party lines), and the yellow lead was then used for both ringer and lamp.

Thanks very much for the detailed response and help, then and now.

I've made a record of your comments to help with working on these things as time allows. 

[Babybearjs]

as far as mounting codes go.... they don't always show up... H7 would be for the 307, and/or the 309... its hard when there is no model number stamped on the bottom like the 500 series... one telltale sign is the 2 bolts used for the extra coil in the 307/309 sets, when you see that, you know there is more then just the basic parts... very few 300 series ever got a model stamp.... I've only across a few over the years.... the rest are just black bases. and since ma bell was so good at switching parts out, you never know what you'll get until you open it up... the 305 and the 410 are obviouse, the switch gives that away immediately. the rest of the sets always seem to show up as a 302, or a "F1" on ebay... those antique dealers really need to know those phones...people are so afraid to unscrew the base and show the insides! then you have a better idea of what you have....

[Sargeguy]

Beware of 251s and the dreaded harmonic or frequency ringers!!!   And  the 250, with nothing inside, if you see a manual 302 attached to a magneto box RUN AWAY!!!!

[Babybearjs]

why? I took a 250 and turned it back into a 302.... just added the missing parts and whala! a 302.... as for the subset... its being used as a external ringer... I just disconnected the magneto and added the capacitor for the ringer... works good when used....

[paul-f]

So, it's progress to turn a reasonably scarce original 300-series variation phone, perhaps with its original subset, into the most common configuration, the 302?

I hope some of us are preserving the oddball variants.

[trainman]

Preserving the oddball variants. I have 4 307's, a 250, and a couple of bases from the 251's, used as subsets that i got from Gary at Playthings of the Past. He has a ton of bases from 251's with frequency ringers.  One I have must have a 22hz ringer. as it rings ok on a regular line.

[Sargeguy]

I have a 250, several 251s with all sorts of ringers, even a Rose one, a 252, 302s galore, 304s, 305, 306, 307. 320, 352 (NE). 354, 356? (the one with the tube) 410, 466. I usually leave them in their original state, just polish them up a little, replace cords, etc.  

[paul-f]

Nice!

Would you post internal and external photos of the NE 352?