Help getting my WE 1D2 up and running

[DavePEI]

See: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12586.0


The 30C lock is an entirely different animal from what is used on older payphones. The way it is built, one is better to not drill it See the noted on that page regarding the 30C.

One note: If you are trying to contact Jody, you are far better off to contact him using his cell phone number, rather than trying by email. He is a very busy man and you may get no reply to emails. Also, there was a gentleman who assisted Paul V. before he passed away - Paul trained him on what keys went with various ISPS and he might be able to help you get an actual key or it. His name is Eugene Doom, and you can contact him at springdoom@aol.com.

So the way I see it, your best bets are as follows in this order....

1) Contact Eugene Doom and see if he can provide a key.
2) Contact Jody and see if he can do the same.
3) Try vibrating the screws from the lock using a hammer drill and reversed drill bit. I have had no luck trying this process, but others report some luck.
4) Barring that, you will have to break into the lock. Use the technique described on the linked page, using the screwdriver, and removing the leaves.
5) If that fails, an option is to very carefully remove the tongue of the lock using an angle grinder. You need to cut it just outside the lock so it will fall clear of the T lock assembly.Red line in 30c photo shows cut line.  Bear in mind in that case you will end up leaving a cut in the case. If, as in my NE phone there is an additional cover that fits over the lock, no problem. If not, you will have to fill that cut afterwards with weld, metallic duct tape, or a combination of JB Weld and tape and re-paint it.

Sadly, with a 30C, there doesn't seem to be an easy way. These are very secure locks. If anyone finds one, please pass it along to all of us.

Dave

[HarrySmith]

Harrysmith, I knew it was jody took it from a post on here verbatim was being polite. I emailed him a couple days ago hoping to here from him soon or Im going to have to do this the "Hard"way.

Last I talked to to him I mentioned a slow email response. He told me it was better to call him.

[Steve911]

Thanks guys,
I haven't committed to a definitive method of getting the upper open yet another friend of mine said he has a lock breaker it is an apparatus that you insert into the lock and expand it in effect crushing the inners and making the lock operable with a screwdriver once completed. I have my reservation with this method as I have never heard of anything like this but he swears by it he is about 73 years old and said it has never failed him getting a lock open. Thanks for the contact info and clarity on utilizing the phone over email for Jody and Mr doom email

[ESalter]

The way the locks operate, I highly doubt his lock crusher method will work.  The key causes those plates to rotate, each of them a different amount.  There are slots or gateways in the plates that allow a piece on the tongue to slide into them, thus opening the lock.  Unless the plates are lined up so those gateways are in line with the tongue piece or the plates are removed alltogether, it will not open. 

As for Dave's method of opening his panel phone, I highly recommend against that. No offense to you at all Dave, but the method I described works very well and doesn't leave any damage to the phone whatsoever.  Once you are able to get the face of the lock off, I don't see any circumstances where you wouldn't be able to get the plates out(or chewed up enough) to get the lock open.  I really took my time on it to make sure I didn't slip and damage the paint, it still only took less than an hour.  You can see in the photos on the link I provided earlier there aren't any marks around the lock hole on the upper housing.  Even the green paint on the inner edge of the hole is completely intact.  It's definitely the way to go if you can't find a key to fit it.  I did put a couple layers of masking tape on the outside of the lock just to be on the safe side.  It was very easy to control the cutoff wheel to keep from slipping though.  After the green 1A1 I've gotten into 3 or 4 1D2s with jammed up 29A locks the same way, each took around 20 minutes now that I knew what I was doing.  I used the same method on an Abloy lock also, that had to be cut deeper to get the face off, but once I was through, the guys just fell out and the lock opened, so it was actually easier.

There absolutely isn't a way to defeat a 30C in a singleslot without cutting up either the phone or the vault door.  Vault doors are a lot easier to replace than lower housings are.  I've heard of telco guys wedging the vault door over to the left and slipping a cutoff wheel between the door and door opening, cutting the lock tongue that way, but even that causes damage to the lower housing inside the phone.  It will destroy the mechanism inside the vault door as well.

---Eric

[DavePEI]

As for Dave's method of opening his panel phone, I highly recommend against that. No offense to you at all Dave, but the method I described works very well and doesn't leave any damage to the phone whatsoever.  Once you are able to get the face of the lock off, I don't see any circumstances where you wouldn't be able to get the plates out(or chewed up enough) to get the lock open.

Ahh, but therein lies the difference between a 30C and a NE22QC (lower) and NE22QD (upper) lock. Similar interior construction, but the vanes are made of super hardened spring brass in the NE - I spent two and a half days trying to chew some of that out of the lock to no avail.... Couldn't even nick it!

I later tried the same way with a 30C, and no problem chewing out the internal vanes in it. So it is a difference in the quality of brass alloy in the NE lock.

And because of the design of the NE panel phone with its external SS cover, one would never know I did it the way I did. You cannot tell how I got the locks off without removing the external SS covers.

Dave

[ESalter]

What were you trying to chew them up with?  Hard brass is still brass, so a drill or small end-mill cutter should have been able to cut them.  Even if they were hardened steel they should be able to be cut up and removed.  I promise I didn't mean any offense by what I typed earlier.  I just don't want to see someone cut a slot in the side of a phone if there's a way around it.

Another point of interest...  the cutaway image of the 30C lock.  In the lower left of that photo is a stepped silver colored block that's sprung up against the brass and copper plates.  The vault locks have that piece, the upper locks(at least 29A's) don't.

---Eric

[Steve911]

Ok Gentlemen I went ahead and drilled out the upper with success it was a 29a and put up a little fight but she is out. The lower will be for another day a friend saw what i doing and said bring it by his place and he will use the plasma cutter on the vault door  I will have to think about that LOL. As for the upper it is in fact a 1c and vintage 1976 I was able to switch to dtf but I still cant dial out. What is my next step to get it to dial out? BTW a couple coins were jammed in the totalizer vintage 1940 nickels x 2 3 60's dimes and 1 60's quarters. I have attached pic of inner

[DavePEI]

Where have you connected ring and tip (red and green from your line.)

Ok Gentlemen I went ahead and drilled out the upper with success it was a 29a and put up a little fight but she is out. The lower will be for another day a friend saw what i doing and said bring it by his place and he will use the plasma cutter on the vault door  I will have to think about that LOL. As for the upper it is in fact a 1c and vintage 1976 I was able to switch to dtf but I still cant dial out. What is my next step to get it to dial out? BTW a couple coins were jammed in the totalizer vintage 1940 nickels x 2 3 60's dimes and 1 60's quarters. I have attached pic of inner

[Steve911]

Hey Dave,
It has 4 wires yellow, black red green I just hooked up red to red and green to green dial tone there when I rotary dial it does not seem to recognize it and dial tone remains I am able dial in and talk through it from my cell

[DavePEI]

Hey Dave,
It has 4 wires yellow, black red green I just hooked up red to red and green to green dial tone there when I rotary dial it does not seem to recognize it and dial tone remains I am able dial in and talk through it from my cell

To me that sounds as though you have it on a VOIP line or a cable modem? These are notorious for accepting some dials and not others. Have you get a POTS line you could try connecting it to and dialing?

Dave

[Steve911]

That's strange I used a 500 series rotary phone on this line and it worked fine yesterday. No POTs line around here unfortunately

[poplar1]

If you call the pay phone from a cell phone, are you able to answer and then transmit and receive? If so, after answering the pay phone, operate the dial while listening on the cell phone. Do you hear a series of pops, for example 7 pops if you dial a 7 on the pay phone?

Also, does this model have a dial shorting coin relay? If so, you'd have to deposit 10 cents one time to release the shorting contacts, at least in CF mode. 

[DavePEI]

What were you trying to chew them up with?  Hard brass is still brass, so a drill or small end-mill cutter should have been able to cut them.  Even if they were hardened steel they should be able to be cut up and removed.  I promise I didn't mean any offense by what I typed earlier.  I just don't want to see someone cut a slot in the side of a phone if there's a way around it.

Another point of interest...  the cutaway image of the 30C lock.  In the lower left of that photo is a stepped silver colored block that's sprung up against the brass and copper plates.  The vault locks have that piece, the upper locks(at least 29A's) don't.

---Eric

I don't know if you read the whole topic - I tried many other possibilities before doing it the way I did. I eliminated all other possibilities before taking the drastic approach. However, I couldn't be more pleased in the way it turned out.

To try to cut away the levers I tried Dental Burrs in my Dremel (diamond) and small molybdenum drill bits. Just glanced off the metal. On the 30C, all I needed was a pair of side cutters - much softer metal.

And as far as looks are concerned, I dare you to find any sign of my getting in the way I did. If it were going to leave any sign, I wouldn't have done it that way.

When I feel a bit better, I will take close-ups around the locks so you can see it is true. If it were a US made phone I couldn't have done it that way because it wouldn't have had the removable Stainless steel cover. There is no cut in the SS cover at all, only in the mild steel cover below it, and then only a straight line. Put th outside cover back on and no sign at all of how the locks were removed.

Below is a shot from NE's T-9 catalogue showing the phone and its panel system. The phone itself is in a painted mild steel case, and panels of SS slide into the case. By removing the panel over the lock, the slit for the lock can be cut, and when done, the panel slid back in leaving an unblemished phone.

Alas, one doesn't have this when working on a US phone.

Dave

[Steve911]

Hey popular1,
negative on hearing any thing from the cell side when I use the rotary I am about to call the house have my daughter pick and have full conversation but unable to dial out. when I put a coin sometimes it gets stuck others i hear the totalizer recognizing it but still no dialing ability I flipped the switch to DTF today should I switch to cf then try?

[Steve911]

So I tried flipping it to CF place a dime in the shoot hear the totalizer acknowledge it and bam it dials out lol the best part is as long as i don't manually remove the coin from hitting the return inside the line is active is this normal?