Help TP-6 TA45B Dial

[Wayback Mike]

I need some help from the CRP brain trust.

I was re-assembling a freshly repainted TP-6 when a wire came loose from the hook switch but for the life of me I can't figure out from exactly where (and the pix I took to help with reassembly don't show what I need to know).  The attached pic shows where the wire attaches to the dial and I know the other end goes on the hook switch but I can't find any obvious place where it may have come loose from.

Any guidance will be gratefully accepted.

Thanks!

    Mike

[unbeldi]

The diagram in this forum thread might provide the answer:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10182.0

Which version of the TP-6 do you have?

The hook switch is very similar to the WECo 302 hook switch.  It has two sets of switch springs,  brown-yellow and blue-green, total of four wires.  How many do you have?

There are also complete maintenance manuals for all Signal Corps phones in the TCI library.

[G-Man]

There were at least seven different versions of the TP-6 telephone that were manufactured for the military. Without seeing an overall photo of your instrument, based upon the TA-45B/GT dial that is shown, I am going to guess this is the schematic/wiring diagram for your set.

[Wayback Mike]

Thanks for the schematics. I'm not the best schematic reader in the world but from the one G-Man provided I was able to figure out that I had accidentally asked a trick question.  The wire that I was so sure came off the hook switch was orange and white under all the fading and grime.  The schematic told me that it belonged on the network at L2.  That makes sense since there were no loose terminals on the hook switch that the wire could have come off of.  Apparently, when I disassembled the phone I first disconnected the L2 end and then disconnected the dial end and left the loose wire intertwined in the bundle coming from the hook switch.  At least, that's my theory.

At this point, I'm pretty sure I have all the wires back where they belong.  The only problem is the phone doesn't work.  It did before I started to "fix" it - but it sure was pretty rough with three quarters of the paint gone.  It rings okay but there's no dial tone.  In fact, it rings with the receiver off the hook so there's still some kind of issue with the switch.  Even though the receiver seems dead I'm pretty sure the receiver itself is okay since I tried it earlier on a 302 and it worked fine.  Many of the original wires in the TP-6 were in pretty rough shape so that might be where the problem is.

Details fwiw, the phone is identified with the following inscription:  TP-6-A  21585 PHILA-49-7  Conn. Tel. Elec Div.  I don't know if that will help narrow down which specific version it is or not.  It's the big heavy deco one, not the one that resembles a Gallion.  I like this one  because it's so doggone ugly!  :-)

I'm going to put it aside for the moment and try to come back at it later with fresh eyes.  Thanks a bunch for the assist.  Without it I would still be totally lost in the woods.

    Mike

[G-Man]

Mike-

  Perhaps this simplified wiring diagram will help. Also, be advised that some of the wire colors may be different if the handset or other components were changed out during repair or updated production runs. An example would be if the handset or its cord were changed, the blue conductor may now be black instead of blue.

[Wayback Mike]

Thanks, to you guys  I'm almost there.

I found a jumper on the wrong terminal and once I moved it to where it belongs I have a phone that rings, breaks dial tone, transmits and receives.  The only thing that doesn't work at this point is the dial.  It's a little sluggish so I think it's going to make a trip to the Steve Hiltz dial infirmary.

I'm still not 100% sure I have all the wires on the correct terminals on the dial.  The vexing thing is that the schematic shows the terminals in a nice straight line but that's not how they're laid out on the actual dial.  And I can't find any markings on the dial to tell me which terminal corresponds to which number in the schematic.  I can make some educated guesses by tracing wires back and comparing to the schematic but that level of troubleshooting makes my brain hurt.   

Again, many thanks for the assistance.

    Mike

[dsk]

You are so close to the goal now so it is probably an easy fix... when it is done.

I do not have the actual dial so it is based on a little guessing from the not to detailed pictures, and based on experience.

The 2 connections in the red ring are the pulse dials,  those in the green shorts the receiver and the hybrid circuit.

The first thing I would have tried is to switch the 2 wires in the red ring, and test.   If it works .. problem solved.
If not working:
Remove the other leads one buy one and listen if you loose the dial tone.  (you should not)
Then the only 2 remaining are the 2 in red ring, Dialing should work, but with loud clicks in the receiver.

The hooksw. in the picture looks like it has 4 wires, the diagram shows 5 so we have to need more detailed pictures if this not makes us coming closer.  The strap (Yellow arrow) can not be seen on the picture, but may, or may not be a part of the dial.

dsk

[G-Man]

Here's another view....

[G-Man]

As I initially stated, there were at least seven instruments designated as a TP-6-A.
Here is yet another wiring diagram that may help you in determining the proper connections for your set.

[Wayback Mike]

I got the dial back from the Hilcz telephone hospital today and after a fair amount of head scratching and studying the various diagrams you folks provided to guide me in hooking it back up, I am happy to report that it works!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.  It's 100% certain that without your help it would never have come back to life from my lone efforts.

Let me also say that even though I've only posted here a couple of times, I've been lurking for quite awhile and the knowledge that is available on this forum is absolutely astounding.  I really appreciate those of you who help newbies - and I definitely am still one of them - with kindness and encouragement.  If this board is any indication, then phone collectors are some of the nicest hobbyists around,

Many thanks!
    Mike