Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Collector's Corner => Topic started by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 04:58:52 PM

Title: A.E. 1A Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 04:58:52 PM
Here's another AE cradle set. It was already in fairly clean shape, except the handset which needed a serious buffing out. Plus someone installed a W.E. dial blank. This set originally had a #24 dial. I found and installed an original type dial along with the chrome open notch finger wheel. The finger wheel is correct for this set.

Nice looking set, very streamlined. Before and after pic.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Dennis Markham on April 10, 2009, 05:29:49 PM
Brian, that dial does make that a nice looking phone.  Now you need a dial card ring.  Should it also be chrome?
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 05:42:51 PM
Quote from: Dennis Markham on April 10, 2009, 05:29:49 PM
Brian, that dial does make that a nice looking phone.  Now you need a dial card ring.  Should it also be chrome?

Actually, I have one and forgot to install it before the photo was shot. They can be either or, black or chrome. I've asked this in the past, and received generally the same answer. Either or. I've seen chrome card rings on black finger wheels also. I would think chrome is the correct one, but it does look good in black. Kind of sets off the chrome wheel.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Dan on April 10, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
Does this model have optional chrome handset bands, or is this only confined to AE34's and 40's?
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Dennis Markham on April 10, 2009, 05:49:30 PM
I wish I would have bought that phone! :)
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 05:53:35 PM
Quote from: Dan on April 10, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
Does this model have optional chrome handset bands, or is this only confined to AE34's and 40's?

Yes, chrome bands were an option. How early I don't know. This model had over a 15 year run starting in 1925, ending just before the war. Long stretch considering this model was outdated by the mid 30s. The early ones were a tall cradle, but the same other than that.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 05:55:41 PM
Quote from: Dennis Markham on April 10, 2009, 05:49:30 PM
I wish I would have bought that phone! :)

It does grow on you. Would even grow more with chrome bands ;) I've said this before, and I'll say it again. It's a better looking design than the W.E. B1 or D1 mounts. Matter of opinion, but many have agreed. AE made some nice looking sets, with the AE34 as my favorite. I need to get my hands on one :P
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 06:08:31 PM
Of course I can't find my chrome dial ring. I've been looking for the last hour. Here's a pic with a black one.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: bingster on April 10, 2009, 07:30:52 PM
Could the bands on this one be stripped and polished?  Or would you rather keep it original?

Also, have you ever done an article on how to buff out a handset?  You get very good results, and such an article would be really helpful.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 10, 2009, 08:43:23 PM
Bing, the bands are bronze. I imaging the chrome bands are plated. As far as polishing, nothing special here. I really don't have the kind of luck I'd like to see. I've been practicing with different chemicals and buffers. I've had the best luck either hand rubbing them, or using a Ryobi RB60 buffer. The buffer works the best. This handset just needed a good cleaning. It didn't have any rough areas. There is a way to get a nice clean finish from bakelite, but I haven't discovered it yet. Sanding isn't an option for me right now.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: McHeath on April 10, 2009, 11:09:37 PM
My 16 year old saw it and said, "Whoa, that is one cool looking phone!"

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: mienaichizu on April 11, 2009, 08:10:45 PM
I envy you, I'd like to have a phone like that ;D
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on April 11, 2009, 08:46:20 PM
Quote from: mienaichizu on April 11, 2009, 08:10:45 PM
I envy you, I'd like to have a phone like that ;D

You can get one. Except the shipping might be tough??? Thanks, it's a nice phone that has really grown on me. Very American deco 1930s. I get the feeling it belongs in a Humphrey Bogart movie ;D
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on February 13, 2011, 01:03:36 AM


Re. the metal bands on the handset:  Black is correct for a black 1A Monophone, chrome or brass for the colored ones.  Chrome was also correct for type 34 and the 40-series Monophones in black.  So I'd suggest leaving the bands on that one black.

For the dial: AE issued chrome with chrome and black with black.  The reason you see chrome dial card retainers on black dials and vice-versa is that the local telcos and the various refurb outfits did that for expedience when they ran out of the matching number rings. 

The baseplate of those 1A units was equipped with a round rubber gasket similar to what's on the 34 and 40-series Monophones; there are some sources of repros available (I can't recall the exact source).  Or you can do an acceptable substitute by using black felt or similar heavy fabric, secured with a ring inside the baseplate that you can make from any strip stock such as the brass strips you can find at hobby shops that sell Plastruct and similar model-maker supplies.  However, fabric will slip on the table while dialing (and get pulled off the table easily), so consider placing a few self-stick nonskid pads under it to prevent that.

The weak spot on the 1A is the cradle: the plastic "ears" can get broken off easily.  So this has to be treated as being more delicate than the WE 200-series handset cradles: "replace receiver carefully after calling" and all that. 

Like the WE 200-series sets, this needs a 4-conductor cord and a subset with an induction coil, to enable wiring up the speech circuit per original. 
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on February 13, 2011, 01:18:45 AM
Quote from: GG on February 13, 2011, 01:03:36 AM


Re. the metal bands on the handset:  Black is correct for a black 1A Monophone, chrome or brass for the colored ones.  Chrome was also correct for type 34 and the 40-series Monophones in black.  So I'd suggest leaving the bands on that one black.

For the dial: AE issued chrome with chrome and black with black.  The reason you see chrome dial card retainers on black dials and vice-versa is that the local telcos and the various refurb outfits did that for expedience when they ran out of the matching number rings. 

The baseplate of those 1A units was equipped with a round rubber gasket similar to what's on the 34 and 40-series Monophones; there are some sources of repros available (I can't recall the exact source).  Or you can do an acceptable substitute by using black felt or similar heavy fabric, secured with a ring inside the baseplate that you can make from any strip stock such as the brass strips you can find at hobby shops that sell Plastruct and similar model-maker supplies.  However, fabric will slip on the table while dialing (and get pulled off the table easily), so consider placing a few self-stick nonskid pads under it to prevent that.

The weak spot on the 1A is the cradle: the plastic "ears" can get broken off easily.  So this has to be treated as being more delicate than the WE 200-series handset cradles: "replace receiver carefully after calling" and all that. 

Like the WE 200-series sets, this needs a 4-conductor cord and a subset with an induction coil, to enable wiring up the speech circuit per original. 

Interesting on the chrome bands. Thanks for the info on the rubber base gasket. This is a shelf queen and will probably never have a dial tone through it again. But the rubber gasket I would like to obtain ;)

Brian
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on February 13, 2011, 01:30:37 AM
Quote from: GG on February 13, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
Re. the metal bands on the handset:  Black is correct for a black 1A Monophone, chrome or brass for the colored ones.  Chrome was also correct for type 34 and the 40-series Monophones in black.

Not brass but "Gold Matte" plated bands and other trim items OR chromed trim on all colored AE sets. And as you say "GG", chrome and Gold were also options on standard black bakelite AE's as well with chrome being quite a common option.

Quote from: GG on February 13, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
For the dial: AE issued chrome with chrome and black with black.  The reason you see chrome dial card retainers on black dials and vice-versa is that the local telcos and the various refurb outfits did that for expedience when they ran out of the matching number rings.

I agree, I have never seen any indication of mixed chrome/black fingerwheel/numbercard rings being supplied by AE. I'd suspect refurbishers or even field repairs by Telco employees since we all know how often the number card ring goes missing on AE dials.

Quote from: GG on February 13, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
The baseplate of those 1A units was equipped with a round rubber gasket similar to what's on the 34 and 40-series Monophones; there are some sources of repros available (I can't recall the exact source).

Gary Goff in California. Somewhere in the $10 to $12 range each including postage within the USA.

Quote from: GG on February 13, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
The weak spot on the 1A is the cradle: the plastic "ears" can get broken off easily.  

Yes the bakelite ears were quite fragile. Many of the cradles were cast pot metal. I don't know which came first, bakelite or pot metal cradles but sort of assume that the pot metal came later as it was quite a bit more durable.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: stub on February 13, 2011, 01:34:54 AM
BDM ,
         You can e-mail Gary Goff. I think he still has these.    stub
                                       
                                      gdgoff@gmail.com  
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on February 13, 2011, 01:39:10 AM
Quote from: stub1953 on February 13, 2011, 01:34:54 AM
BDM ,
         You can e-mail Gary Goff. I think he still has these.    stub
                                       
                                      gdgoff@gmail.com  

Thanks Gents. I've had the pleasure in meeting Gary many years ago, and have done business with him the past. Didn't realize he had the gaskets. I should have considering he has them for the later A.E. sets :P
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 13, 2011, 11:53:37 AM
Those rubber gaskets that Gary makes are very nice.  They also work perfectly for the Stromberg Carlson 1212 Fatboy.  I exchanged e-mail with Gary at the first of the year and he indicated he was having a fresh batch of the gaskets made up at that time.  He also confirmed that they work on the Fatboy.  I had already put one on mine so I know it is a great replacement.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on February 13, 2011, 11:56:26 AM
Holy Zeniths Batman!!! I didn't know you had one of those. darn that phone looks new :)
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 13, 2011, 12:00:23 PM
Thanks, Brian.  You can see some before & after shots here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3488.30


I still need a grill screen for it and a Stromberg Carlson decal for the back.

By the way, it's good to see you back on the Forum!
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on February 13, 2011, 12:46:05 PM
Man that looks good! Guess I gotta pay more attention to what you have sitting on the shelf when I'm over there ;D
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 13, 2011, 01:15:35 PM
Brian, I don't think it was here the last time you came by the house.  That means you're over due for another visit.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on February 13, 2011, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Dennis Markham on February 13, 2011, 01:15:35 PM
Brian, I don't think it was here the last time you came by the house.  That means you're over due for another visit.

Yes I need to get out of my cave :o
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on May 07, 2011, 07:13:52 PM
I finally picked up my first 1A.  It looked a little rough when I bought it, but polished up real nice.  I have a rubber gasket on order from Gary Goff, now all I need is to find a brass center ring.  It looks nice next to the AE 21 candlestick.  I couldn't resist polishing those bands instead of painting them black. 
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on May 07, 2011, 08:45:30 PM
Looks better with the bands polished IMHO anyhow. Heck, unless you're trying to win a 100 pnt show, who cares. Nice set!
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: JorgeAmely on May 07, 2011, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: wds on May 07, 2011, 07:13:52 PM
I finally picked up my first 1A.  It looked a little rough when I bought it, but polished up real nice.  I have a rubber gasket on order from Gary Goff, now all I need is to find a brass center ring.  It looks nice next to the AE 21 candlestick.  I couldn't resist polishing those bands instead of painting them black. 

If you remove the black paint from the ring, your will find brass that can be polished just like you did with the other trim parts.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on May 09, 2011, 12:34:12 AM
I'm guessing that the numbercard ring is a "loaner" from another AE set since the original 1A was missing its ring?

Some of the number card rings are aluminum rather than brass so check it out before you start stripping the paint off!

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on May 09, 2011, 08:12:14 AM
Yes, the ring was a loaner.  The model 40 I took it from probably isn't very happy right now.  But, I have a brass ring on it's way.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on May 11, 2011, 06:54:08 PM
Updated picture with a new gasket, the correct ring, and an old number card.  I think I like the looks of this phone better than my B1/E1
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: BDM on May 11, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Quote from: wds on May 11, 2011, 06:54:08 PM
Updated picture with a new gasket, the correct ring, and an old number card.  I think I like the looks of this phone better than my B1/E1

I agree, love mine. They're elegant looking, while I find the look of W.E. variants more utilitarian. Nice ;) I need to get busy and order a gasket ring from Gary.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: ntophones on September 27, 2011, 09:13:27 PM
Hello,
Just bought an AE 1A. It is all black like yours was. I was wondering how you removed the paint from the brass, and how you shined it so well?
Thanks
ntophones
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on September 27, 2011, 09:17:14 PM
Paint stripper to take the paint off the fingerwheel and bands.  Then I put them on the buffer wheel to make them shine like gold.  The bakelite I just polished up with rubbing compound.  And lots of elbow grease. 
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: ntophones on September 27, 2011, 09:27:06 PM
Thanks, but, what particular brands of those things do you use? Your phone looks so wonderful.
Also, your phone has the bakelite cradle? Wow, I just realized those were not metal.....I was planning on using the phone, but, if it comes in one piece, I may have to rethink using it. Right now, I'm using a WE D-1 model that I thought I'd like to change out with this model, since I really like AE phones.

Also, if you don't mind, where did you pick up your brass finger stop for your dial?
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on September 27, 2011, 09:35:35 PM
I agree - my least favorite of that style phone is the D1, I really like the B1/E1, and of course this A1.  The D1 seems like it sits too low.  As far as the rubbing compound, I just use the Turtle wax Polishing Compound - green can with the white paste.  It does a real nice job - there are posts here about how to use the rubbing compound, but I rub until my white rag turns from black, to brown, and then to yellow.  Then you know the bakelite is coming clean.  Remember, there's 75 years of dirt on those old phones, so you usually have to rub out the same spot several times before moving on to the next spot.  

There are also posts about the paint stripper - I just use what's on sale that week.  It won't hurt the bakelite, but it will melt any plastic it comes in contact with.  I use the paint stripper or Goof Off to remove any paint or hard to remove stuff from the bakelite before I start with the polishing compound.  

Be sure you post a before and after picture!
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on September 27, 2011, 09:58:56 PM
I forgot your last question - I picked up the brass center ring off of Ebay.  I contacted one of the Ebay sellers, and they had a couple they sold me for a pretty good price.  There's usually some on Ebay almost all the time. 
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on September 28, 2011, 03:48:50 AM


Re. metal handset cradles:

Per AE catalog 4055-C, page 13, under "condensed specifications and catalog listing," we find:

"Metal base and cradle: If desired, desk stand [AE 1A Monophone was also called a "desk stand"] can e furnished with black-japanned brass base, and aluminum alloy cradle, instead of molded plastic."

This would indicate that both types were available at the same time, and the operating company could choose which to order.   (That is, there's no implication that either type was discontinued and there were some left in stock to use up.)
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: wds on September 28, 2011, 08:58:14 AM
Does that mean that my "bakelite" A1 is not bakelite, but rather plastic?  If so, then I guess you should be careful about using paint stripper on the base or cradle.  

And I misunderstood that last question - again.  The fingerstop is nickel.  However, if you put that fingerstop on a power buffing wheel, you can polish off the nickel, and expose the brass. 
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Wallphone on September 28, 2011, 11:16:31 AM
It looks like it will be up to you to determine if it is Bakelite or plastic. In Bulletin No. 1015 - Central Battery Telephones and Telephone Parts (page 10) it says that the case is made of Bakelite. And as GG posted in Catalog 4055D it says that it is plastic.
Doug Pav
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on September 28, 2011, 11:40:17 PM
I guess that technically the colored ones are plastic and the black/walnut/mahogany ones are bakelite. However Bakelite was considered to be "the first plastic" to the best of my knowledge. While it is very different than what we know as plastic it does have resin in it like plastic does so it can be considered a plastic.....I guess...

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on September 29, 2011, 12:47:11 AM

Black ones:  AE 1A Monophone cradles were definitely bakelite, as were AE 40 Monophones, as were the handsets for both types.  

Other colors, I don't know for sure:  The 1A seemed to use a hard plastic, possibly bakelite with a light-colored filler material for the lighter ones, but don't count on it.  The 40s were definitely not bakelite, because you see examples of these that have shrunk and warped, which does not happen with bakelite.

The term "plastic" was used for bakelite back in the day.  "Plastic" was originally an adjective meaning "capable of being molded into any desired shape."  You also see the word used to describe concrete from an architectural standpoint: it can be molded on-site into any desired shape in a building, which some architects in the late 19th - early 20th centuries considered "cheating" compared to using e.g. brick or cut stone.  

IMHO I don't recommend using cleaning chemicals that react with any types of plastic.  Lukewarm water with soap or dish washing liquid, and a dedicated medium or soft toothbrush, will take care of almost any grime accumulation.  If the grime is heavy, dip the toothbrush in the water and then in the dish liquid, to get a "concentrated dose", and scrub patiently but gently.  This treatment may result in a shiny surface coming out dull-ish, but that degree of dull can be shined up with gentle buffing using white buffing compound.  

Shortly I'll find out if this is sufficient for 90-year-old grime, on an AE step-based desk stand whose receiver is pretty well covered with a heavy deposit of grime that's so thick it even has a texture.  I'm going to be taking & posting pictures of the entire refurb process on that one, because it basically works like new even now, and only needs a decent cleaning, and I want to document the project.  
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on September 29, 2011, 02:09:16 AM
Quote from: GG on September 29, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
The 40/41/43 were definitely not bakelite, because you see examples of these that have shrunk and warped, which does not happen with bakelite.

AE 41 & 43?

41 is a handset but if it is a telephone set maybe it is the 40 with just the little button up top like the AE 47 has?

43 is the pot metal space saver wall phone that is painted black (only color available) that preceeded the 83 (same phone but available in all the AE colors equipped with 81/810 handset) that preceeded the 183 plastic cased spacesaver with swivel mounted dial and cradle that is adjustable 180 degrees.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on September 29, 2011, 09:21:17 AM


I'll confess to getting the AE 4x codes wrong:  I've heard 40-series phones referred to as 41 and 43, and the numbers on the baseplates of the ones I have around here haven't often helped.   So I just went back and edited my comment to remove the questionable ones.

Now speaking of odd AE numbers, here I have one with:
H 870661-3  dated 8-57-8.

And another with
L 4111ESL on one side of the screws holding the ringer to the base, and 
KN-3 on the other side of those screws in the same font.  However this one has no date on the baseplate that I could see.   

Those are both 2-line versions of the type 40 Monophone.  They have the expected sets of line & hold buttons below and to the left & right of the dial: H and A1 to the left, and A2 and H to the right.   Both have the push/pull type button in front of the cradle, pull for extension exclusion or optional intercom line, push for signaling a buzzer.   

However:  H87215-CSLA is what's on the bottom of the three-line version of the type 80, in turquoise (of which I have two; I should post pictures in the turquoise topic).  One of them is dated 9-59-12 and the other 3-60-6.   

I'm used to thinking of an AE type 87 as the latter: the 3-line set.  Yet there's that number 87 in the code on one of the 2-line sets, while the other begins with 41!

What'up with all that? 

Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on September 29, 2011, 11:05:18 AM
Quote from GG:
I'll confess to getting the AE 4x codes wrong:  I've heard 40-series phones referred to as 41 and 43, and the numbers on the baseplates of the ones I have around here haven't often helped.   So I just went back and edited my comment to remove the questionable ones.

No problem GG. Now that you mention it AE 40's DO have 40xx and 41xx codes on the base. Of course no one has ben able to decipher much of the coding on these phones.

Now speaking of odd AE numbers, here I have one with:
H 870661-3  dated 8-57-8.

And another with
L 4111ESL on one side of the screws holding the ringer to the base, and  
KN-3 on the other side of those screws in the same font.  However this one has no date on the baseplate that I could see.    

Those are both 2-line versions of the type 40 Monophone.  They have the expected sets of line & hold buttons below and to the left & right of the dial: H and A1 to the left, and A2 and H to the right.   Both have the push/pull type button in front of the cradle, pull for extension exclusion or optional intercom line, push for signaling a buzzer.

That is odd having the 87 code on a 47. Of course 47 is the predecesor of the 87 and then came the 187 still later. Strange that they would code a 47 as 87. I wonder if there was some overlap in construction of both sets. There likely was and I wonder if the coding of a 47 with 87xxx code have literally been an error.

Pretty much all 40 & 47 sets have the two seperate sets of codes on them and rarely a date on them or any AE's until the 80/90 era when most began getting a date code. All 47 sets have the little "multi function" button up top and occasionally I have seen this same button on AE 40's which I wondered if it might actually be considered an AE 41 or not.  

However:  H87215-CSLA is what's on the bottom of the three-line version of the type 80, in turquoise (of which I have two; I should post pictures in the turquoise topic).  One of them is dated 9-59-12 and the other 3-60-6.  

I'm used to thinking of an AE type 87 as the latter: the 3-line set.  Yet there's that number 87 in the code on one of the 2-line sets, while the other begins with 41!

What'up with all that?  

AE 87's are as you describe....3 lines and 3 holds and available in all or most colors. Not sure what the 87 coding on the 47 is about.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: dencins on September 29, 2011, 11:30:12 AM
If anyone is looking for a nickel finish on the A1 parts, I can plate the A1 parts like the AE34 in this posting.  Same prices.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg63400#msg63400

Dennis Hallworth
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Wallphone on September 29, 2011, 11:52:15 AM
Terry, I thought the 43 was the predecessor of the 87 and the 183 was the successor. AE didn't change their numbers again did they?
Doug Pav
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on September 29, 2011, 10:21:46 PM


Hi Terry-   Yes, I have a 40 with space for the multifunction button near the cradle, but the button itself went missing from its chrome cylindrical holder, and I'm not sure if the switch contacts are still present underneath.  This one is Philips from Canada, with a GPO dial that needs a rebuild (I can do dials as long as the mainspring isn't broken).  So apparently those did exist, which makes sense because that function was very common back in the day.

As for the rest of them, perhaps the answer is for all of us to round up all of our AE 40-series sets and compile a database to try to find the pattern.  Chances are some of the code was continued with the 80s, e.g. "SL" and "XX" and 2-digit codes for ringers. 

Dennis - Yes I'll be interested in taking you up on this when I have some free time to ship stuff.  I have some misc AE parts such as hookswitch plungers, and a couple of AE & GPO fingerwheels, that could do to be re-plated. 

Doug - I have right next to me an AE "Call Director" style 3-line set (DTMF) and it says "T-187-SL" with date code "13 Aug 1980."  That is a radically simplified part code compared to the earlier ones, and is missing any reference to color (this one is black), but I have to assume T stands for Touch Calling.  I have a bunch of 187s so I could go check the rest of 'em, but I'm sure they're all "187" rather than "183."   Also the type 86 was a 5-line 1A2 phone (or 10A2 in AE terms) similar to a WE 565, and the type 186 was the 10A2 version of the 187. 

Now the sensible thing to do would have been to code the 3-line set with the lower part number e.g. 86, 186, and the 5-line set with the higher part number e.g. 87, 187, but these numbering schemes evolve ad-hoc and so it goes. 

Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on September 29, 2011, 11:39:49 PM
Quote from: Wallphone on September 29, 2011, 11:52:15 AM
Terry, I thought the 43 was the predecessor of the 87 and the 183 was the successor. AE didn't change their numbers again did they?
Doug Pav

Doug:

3 line KSU-less phones: 47 - 87 - 187.

Spacesavers: 4 - 43 - 83 - 183.

GG;

T simply refers to "Type" 187. AE never did anything to model numbers to differentiate Rotary from Touch Call.

Somewhere around the year 2000 ATCA did an AECo code survey but the results were not very conclusive. I think that there were only 50 odd codes submitted. I decided that a LOT more codes would be needed to further decipher them.

I started a spreadsheet and entered some of my phones codes along with their features. I have also entered a lot of phones seen on ebaY where their code can be read. Maybe I will start a thread here soon asking for input and continue adding to my spreadsheet.

Terry



Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on September 30, 2011, 05:27:09 AM


Hi Terry-

Re. "somewhere around 2000, ATCA did a survey..." 

I have to laugh:  All the King's horses, and all the King's men, couldn't put the AE codes back together again!

Here's a conventional 40 for you:  4020B0 PL7.  Chrome dial fingerwheel & handset cradle, and the baseplate appears to be aluminum.

Here's a Canadian Philips version with GPO dial and with the odd hole where I thought the exclusion pull/press key must have gone (the exclusion key plunger is missing now):  looks like Y 1186, which number also appears on the schematic inside.  There's another sticker inside with the date 4-4-50 on it. 

However, I was mistaken earlier: that is NOT an exclusion pull/press key: the schematic refers to it as "Push Button, Red," and it is nothing more than a PABX ground button or recall-register button.  (I can probably fabricate a new plunger out of something, for example lucite rod stock and a washer and screw.) 
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on September 30, 2011, 11:18:39 AM

GG SAID:
I have to laugh:  All the King's horses, and all the King's men, couldn't put the AE codes back together again!

Good One! That about sumarizes things as far as I am concerned!

I'll get a thread going here for more input soon.

I suspect the little button on a 40 is like the AE 81 and AE 85 sets in that there were many options. I have only seen the button being black but I've only seen a couple of them in total.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: GG on October 01, 2011, 08:33:24 AM


Hi Terry -

YES, a topic on deciphering AE would be good.  The maddening thing about AE is that for many years they had no dates on anything, so the best one can say is "some time between year X and year Y."  This may partially explain why AE phones don't generally fetch higher prices (GOOD!  This is a hobby, not the b----y stock market!).  Yet it would be nice to be able to piece together the history more closely, and figure out where one's particular examples fit into the timeline. 

Agreed, the single button on 40s probably had many optional contact-sets for different purposes.  So far we know of the ground-button version (SPST momentary contact) and the third-line version with a ground button function (DPDT pull contacts, and SPST momentary contact).  A pure "exclusion" version might only be one set of SPDT contacts with an SPST make-only contact, in other words an incomplete set of DPDT contacts as found on some of the type 85 phones. 

"Incomplete DPDT contacts" were IMHO false economy, limiting the flexibility of the phone for the sake of saving one contact spring and its associated wire.   Type 85 with press/turn key and true DPDT contacts in the exclusion switch, could have been a drop-in replacement for the two-line type 40 with intercom line option, or been usable for "2 line with 2 hold" service similar to the 85-E.
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: Kenny C on October 01, 2011, 09:09:26 AM
As long as we're deciphering AE sets, the title says AE A1 Monophone. Isn't the A1 westerns first desk set? I thought the AE was called a 1A. I could be wrong (usually I am ;))
Title: Re: A.E. A1 Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on October 01, 2011, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: Kenny C on October 01, 2011, 09:09:26 AM
As long as we're deciphering AE sets, the title says AE A1 Monophone. Isn't the A1 westerns first desk set? I thought the AE was called a 1A. I could be wrong (usually I am ;))

You are 100% correct Kenny. I have noted that it was wrong a couple of times in the past and had now forgotten about the incorrect title. Either BDM (originator of this thread) or Dennis could pop in and do a correction on the title. Then I think what happens is all existing posts stay as is but new posts will be correct. But the title of his tread when then be accurate as well.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. 1A Monophone
Post by: Dennis Markham on October 01, 2011, 06:27:48 PM
I did modify the original topic so that it now reads "A.E. 1A Monophone" instead of A1 Monophone.  All subsequent posts should be titled correctly, but as Terry said, those already in place will remain as they were. 
Title: Re: A.E. 1A Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on October 01, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Thanks Dennis.

I think the main thing is that the Subject line will be correct when looking at the list of topics.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. 1A Monophone
Post by: GG on October 02, 2011, 04:28:04 AM


Question:  What about an AE 1A on which the metal cradle switch cover does not have the usual Automatic Electric logos, but is just plain & flat (plus the indentation for the screw-on retainer? 

It's clearly an AE phone in all respects, dial & handset included, and not one of their foreign variants such as the UK or Belgium versions.  Could this be an American Electric (AE reconditioning shop) variant?  Or did AE issue them with plain cradle switch covers at some point?
Title: Re: A.E. 1A Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on October 02, 2011, 01:32:29 PM
GG: I don't have an answer for that question other than this observation.

I am in British Columbia Canada where the incumbant Telco, BC Telephone Company (Now Telus) began using some AE Monophones rather than NE telephones in July 1928. They were introduced as new Monophones which of course meant "Telephone with a handset containing both transmitter and receiver rather than phone with seperate transmitter and receiver".

The Theodore Gary Company already owned AECo and then purchased a controlling interest in the BC Telephone Company in December 1926 so it stands to reason that BC Telephone would begin offereing AE products.

In Canada, Phillips Electrical Works of Brockville Ontario made telephone cable and then expanded into telephone production in 1937 producing Automatic Electric phones with labelling inside or on the base saying Phillips Elecrical Works. Much like (no pun intended) Leich Electric produced early AE 80 phones before Leich was completely absorbed into Automatic Electric.

I am finally getting to the point I wanted to make now. Almost every AE 1A phone that I own has the blank plate that you describe GG. The excptions are likely the phones that I bought on ebaY coming from the USA. Since Phillips didn't start making AE phones in Canada until 1937 the majority of the 1A monophones here must have been imported from the USA.

For some reason it appears that they were equipped with blank plates for the BC or maybe the entire Canadian market. I can't really think of a reason for that other than maybe they didn't want the indication that they were made in the USA rather than Canada or Britain. Or maybe there was some other more obscure reason. Maybe an operating company could order them with blanks if they didn't want the name of another company (American Electric or Automatic Electric) in front of their subscribers every time they went off hook.

Terry
Title: Re: A.E. 1A Monophone
Post by: AE_Collector on October 02, 2011, 10:17:53 PM
Okay, he first version of the AE Phone Code survey is up here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5514.msg67058#msg67058

Terry