Pulse to Tone Converters Supporting * and # keys

[Slal]

Morning everyone,

Read the discussion about pulse to tone converters here: 

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10928.0

But the topic seemed to be for folks who cannot dial out. 

Fortunately mine works fine, but I'm curious if a rotary phone can be made to work with automated menus where a receiving computer needs the "#" key to 'enter' your member number, security code, etc.

Supposedly one called "Rotatone" has this ability, but requires programming.

Has anyone tried this device or one with same ability to emulate the # key? 

Not sure how you'd get it to work when you only have 10 choices and not 12.  What number (1 through 0) would you dial to get the device to emulate the "#" key without dorking up one through zero!  e.g. you choose "1" to emulate # key.  What happens when you want to dial a 'normal' 1 for a phone number?

Might not be worth the cost or the hassle.  Always have cell or cordless.  Just a thought & am curious.

So what say the experts! 

thx

--Bruce   

[Matilo Telephones]

The dialgizmo can dial the * and #. You have to hold the the fingerwheel with your finger against the fingerstop for a second or 2.

Not mucht trouble at all.

The picbasic converterchip works in a similar manner.

There is a manual at www.gialgizmo.com

[Contempra]

The dialgizmo can dial the * and #. You have to hold the the fingerwheel with your finger against the fingerstop for a second or 2.

Not mucht trouble at all.

The picbasic converterchip works in a similar manner.

There is a manual at www.gialgizmo.com

This link is no longer work.. this page says ' This page can't be browsing " Matilo

[Matilo Telephones]

Sorry, my mistake. Typo.

Now copy paste: http://www.dialgizmo.com/

And picbasic:

http://www.picbasic.nl/dtmf-telefoon.htm

The last one I know is this one:

http://www.telefonmanufaktur.de/shop/index.php?cPath=35

But i do not think that one supports # and *

[poplar1]

In order to detect the held fingerwheel, doesn't this require a phone circuit that shorts out the entire phone, and not just the receiver? A WE 302, for example, shorts the phone, while a WE 500 shorts only the receiver. Perhaps the shunt contacts on the 500 can be connected differently.

The dialgizmo can dial the * and #. You have to hold the the fingerwheel with your finger against the fingerstop for a second or 2.

Not mucht trouble at all.

The picbasic converterchip works in a similar manner.

There is a manual at www.gialgizmo.com

[Phonesrfun]

In order to detect the held fingerwheel, doesn't this require a phone circuit that shorts out the entire phone, and not just the receiver? A WE 302, for example, shorts the phone, while a WE 500 shorts only the receiver. Perhaps the shunt contacts on the 500 can be connected differently.

I have always wondered exactly the same thing.  On a 500, there would be absolutely no way for anything outside the phone to be able to detect that the finger wheel had been turned.  The dial of a 202 shunts the transmitter but leaves the primary in the circuit, but at least an external device could detect that change in resistance.  The 302 shunts the whole thing.  European phones are probably more likely to be wired like the 202/302 sets and would be detectible.

It's my recollection that the AE80 and other AE sets also shunt out the whole set.

So it seems to me that the dialgizmo could not possibly detect off-normal of a 500 dial without rewiring the dial shunt springs.

[Slal]

Thanks for replies. 

Dialgizmo (since it's a module) seemed the way to go if thinking about an AEC A-1 or A-11 monophone for home office. 

Site's FAQ however seems vague. 

-----
Can I use Dialgizmo on a normal PSTN line?
You can, but you shouldn't. Dialgizmo has been designed specifically to work with VoIP lines and is not approved for connection to the regular PSTN telephone network. However VoIP lines are designed to mimic the types of voltages and currents seen on the PSTN network. So Dialgizmo can cope with all of these. We may look to having Dialgizmo approved for PSTN connecton in the future if there is demand for this.
-----

Is it me or are they speaking out of both sides of their mouth here?  Covering their kiesters by saying 'you can but it isn't approved.'   If the voltages are the same I'm not sure what difference it would make, but of course I'm not a telephone tech. ; )

Interesting about whether it would work at all on some phones.  A search here at CRP *seems* to indicate one user didn't have problems w/AE (except for a model 80) but no mention of whether 'VoIP' or 'plain old telephone' circuit.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=7548.0

Meanwhile, my experience so far has me thinking I'd better do my homework.  Found a self study guide at TCI library by Ralph Meyer & a quick search of books about phones seems to have his as most recent (2005.)  Shame I missed the course when he was available for e-mail.

Will probably be back with typical apprentice questions once I get the book.  ; )

Anyway, thanks again & enjoy your weekend!

--Bruce

[G-Man]

They could be held liable if it is not approved by your nation's regulatory agency for direct connection to the PSTN, so yes it its double-speak telling you that you COULD connect it without problems but you did not hear it from them!

A few of those agencies include:

U.S.- FCC
Canada- CRTC
U.K.- OFCOM

Thanks for replies. 

Dialgizmo (since it's a module) seemed the way to go if thinking about an AEC A-1 or A-11 monophone for home office. 

Site's FAQ however seems vague. 

-----
Can I use Dialgizmo on a normal PSTN line?
You can, but you shouldn't. Dialgizmo has been designed specifically to work with VoIP lines and is not approved for connection to the regular PSTN telephone network. However VoIP lines are designed to mimic the types of voltages and currents seen on the PSTN network. So Dialgizmo can cope with all of these. We may look to having Dialgizmo approved for PSTN connecton in the future if there is demand for this.
-----

Is it me or are they speaking out of both sides of their mouth here?  Covering their kiesters by saying 'you can but it isn't approved.'   If the voltages are the same I'm not sure what difference it would make, but of course I'm not a telephone tech. ; )

Interesting about whether it would work at all on some phones.  A search here at CRP *seems* to indicate one user didn't have problems w/AE (except for a model 80) but no mention of whether 'VoIP' or 'plain old telephone' circuit.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=7548.0

Meanwhile, my experience so far has me thinking I'd better do my homework.  Found a self study guide at TCI library by Ralph Meyer & a quick search of books about phones seems to have his as most recent (2005.)  Shame I missed the course when he was available for e-mail.

Will probably be back with typical apprentice questions once I get the book.  ; )

Anyway, thanks again & enjoy your weekend!

--Bruce

[poplar1]

There are certain units--can't recall which ones--that cannot be used on POTS lines if the POTS lines recognize Dial Pulse. This is because if you dial a 7, for example, the c.o. will receive 77--one 7 from the phone and another from the converter.

On the other hand, why would you want to use a converter on a POTS line if the POTS line already recognizes rotary phones? Is it for the * and # ?

[twocvbloke]

When it comes to approval to connect to phonelines, technically speaking, here in the UK unless a telephone has an approval label on the base (such as the one on my Saisho Trimline clone below), then you're not meant to connect it to any UK telephone line, and that includes converted GPO telephones...

But nobody really cares, and if the phones cause a fault, the provider (be it BT or any of the cable co's) just charges the customer for the time to diagnose faults caused by the phone, so they're covered too... 

[Greg G.]

Slightly off subject, but the vast majority of phone trees I encounter I'm able to navigate w/o much problem on my rotary.  I have a 308 Panasonic PBX that converts the tone to pulse, so as long as the menu options want a numeric response, all I have to do is dial it.  In many cases where the phone tree wants a # or *, they also give an option of either "stay on the line for a rep" or speaking a voice response.  However, I've also encountered really rude phone trees that give a snotty "Sorry you're having trouble, goodbye!" response and disconnect if you don't push the * or #. 

Anita wanted a modern cordless setup with two handsets, which we have in addition to my rotaries.  She mostly uses the modern phone.  I only use it when I want to change the options on our landline or clear out the caller id log and old messages, because it requires the # or * to log in and select the options.  I remember (I think it was in the 70s) that phone trees used to say "If you're using a rotary phone, please stay on the line for a representative".  I think that should be brought back, by law.

[Slal]

There are certain units--can't recall which ones--that cannot be used on POTS lines if the POTS lines recognize Dial Pulse. This is because if you dial a 7, for example, the c.o. will receive 77--one 7 from the phone and another from the converter.

On the other hand, why would you want to use a converter on a POTS line if the POTS line already recognizes rotary phones? Is it for the * and # ?

Good point.  Had just assumed converters were replacing not adding.  If they're adding, then of course it's useless.  Might have to e-mail DialGizmo & ask.

And yes-- I'm just after the * and # keys.  From a cost/benefit standpoint, spending $60 just to have these two 'keys' is absurd, but I look at it this way:  I'd probably spend as much or more for dinner & movie tickets when wife & I go out. 

Definitely want to do my research here.  Lost money on a 'Dr. Franken-phone.'  My mistake was in thinking, "It's just an old phone-- who'd bother faking one?"  Where enough money is involved... that was very naïve.

So just doing some projections for an AE-1 or AE-11 setup & wanted to include converter.     

Why the converter?  Guess it's just me and what I grew up with-- the ol' "Ma Bell" handset.  IMHO this handset design is almost perfect.  I never get anyone saying, "having trouble hearing you" because I'm not talking directly into the mic of cordless or cell.  Can also cradle the handset on shoulder to free both hands to write, grab a folder out of the file cabinet, or quickly type up something.  So if considering rotary for home office-- would want those 2 extra keys as well.

All very quaint in 21st century with handless comm & files on laptop or in the cloud.  Call me eccentric!   ; )

Anyway, if deicide to pursue it, found an article comparing 3 designs here

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/JournalsSamples/2012-11sw.pdf  Jump to p. 8

He mentions 'transmitter shunts' and uses a WE 302 & WE 500 as example of one that does and one that doesn't.  Apparently if they do, then you have to approach wiring differently and/or put a resistor into the circuit.

So will have to find out if AEC phone I end up getting does or doesn't.

That leads to final question as I continue to do my research.

Some monophones not 'desirable' for some reason?  Was following a chrome & walnut colored AE-11 on the Bay just to see what it would go for.  No takers... Not even a 99 cent snipe!  What did others see that I didn't?  (item 301116341052)

thx

--Bruce

[poplar1]

Some monophones not 'desirable' for some reason?  Was following a chrome & walnut colored AE-11 on the Bay just to see what it would go for.  No takers... Not even a 99 cent snipe!  What did others see that I didn't?  (item 301116341052)

thx

--Bruce

If you check the bid history, j***o had bid $153.07. His bid and all the others were canceled when the seller ended the auction, saying the item was "lost or broken."

[Phonesrfun]

Probably the best thing to do is buy one and see what it does for you.

Ralph Meyer's review article did not seem to address the dialing of #, * and other features by first holding the fingerwheel off-normal for a period of time.

Hopefully if you buy one and it doesn't do what you want, you could send it back for a refund.