I am working on a 233-G for a friend. I have restored the entire phone to original including the relay. I would like to get the wiring right so I can use one of Stan's controllers to make it work. I have several diagrams, but I have to admit I am terrible with them. I was hoping somewhere there was a simplified diagram I could follow more easily. I assume the upper housing and dial are properly wired because it works. I just need to make sure the relay and switch pileup is properly wired to the 685a subset. Thanks in advance for your expert assistance.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16308.0
That's an excellent drawing, however I fear I am not that savvy. The way the phone is wired currently works, and maybe it's not the same as what the drawing is calling out. I just installed the relay, and I need to wire it and pretty much only it to work with the controller. I will add a picture, of course it doesn't include the subset, so I dont know if this is complete enough to get a proper solution. This is how the back looks after I added the relay.
Those diagrams can be frustrating. You have to carefully look at each wire to see how it routes and remember that the diagram is not necessarily "correct" in terms of physical orientation of the components. It sounds like you have the proper 685A subset which was installed with every 233G - it includes a 500-style 425B net and C4A ringer. The relay will either have 2 or 4 contacts, depending on if it has the dial shunt contacts (used to prevent dial use unless a coin was dropped). Stan's controller won't care about the dial shunt, so if your relay has only the 2 contacts, you're still OK. In reviewing the diagram poplar1 pointed out, the relay contacts 1 and 2 are labeled "DS" (dial shunt) and shown separately from the 3 and G - that is hard to read! 3 and 4 (or G) are the relay circuit to ground. I think you have to remove the ground connection for Stan's controller install - review the install manual to confirm..... In looking at the diagram again, it shows relay terminal 3 connects to "T" on the upper contact strip, and then a red wire connects from "T" to "R" on the pile-up. Ultimately, the CO ( now Stan), has to get 100v to contact 3 to operate the relay. I don't have a 233G anymore to look at and my memory isn't good enough to confirm all this....
Ok, fun times so far. I rewired the phone, I think, to the above diagram. the way it was wired was vastly different. This is what I get. I can't hear from the receiver, cant be heard talking through it, and it wont ring. However, it will dial and connect a call, it hangs up properly, and collects the coins or returns them as it should. so, it seems I am halfway there, but halfway the other way around. Before it did none of the collecting or returning of coins, but it made calls. so, 1 step forward, 1 step back. Where on earth did I go wrong? I have attached some photos to show it the way I wired it minus Stan's controller. Any help would be appreciated.
Quote from: Butch Harlow on July 06, 2018, 07:35:32 PM
Ok, fun times so far. I rewired the phone, I think, to the above diagram. the way it was wired was vastly different. This is what I get. I can't hear from the receiver, cant be heard talking through it, and it wont ring. However, it will dial and connect a call, it hangs up properly, and collects the coins or returns them as it should. so, it seems I am halfway there, but halfway the other way around. Before it did none of the collecting or returning of coins, but it made calls. so, 1 step forward, 1 step back. Where on earth did I go wrong? I have attached some photos to show it the way I wired it minus Stan's controller. Any help would be appreciated.
Use the controller as a diagnostic test tool.
JMO,
Jim S.
Starting with the handset: It appears you have black handset wire connected to R on hookswitch.
Only the one receiver wire (White in diagram) goes to GN on hookswitch. Other 3 handset wires go to the T-TR-L terminal block at the top: transmitter wire to T. Other transmitter and one receiver both go to TR.
I would suggest getting the phone to transmit, receive, dial out before connecting to the controller.
2. You need to strap BB and BBX terminals on the hookswitch, using a short piece of wire.
Quote from: poplar1 on July 06, 2018, 10:52:54 PM
Starting with the handset: It appears you have black handset wire connected to R on hookswitch.
Only the one receiver wire (White in diagram) goes to GN on hookswitch. Other 3 handset wires go to the T-TR-L terminal block at the top: transmitter wire to T. Other transmitter and one receiver both go to TR.
I would suggest getting the phone to transmit, receive, dial out before connecting to the controller.
I moved the handset wire to the correct position and still no transmitter action. Currently, I have the controller wired as my CO connection.
3. There should be only one *wire* on R of hookswitch: It goes to RR in subset. In your photo, this is a solid brown wire. (Remove the yellow wire in photo.)
Quote from: poplar1 on July 06, 2018, 11:04:49 PM
2. You need to strap BB and BBX terminals on the hookswitch, using a short piece of wire.
That has also been done.
I don't see how the controller can be used in place of a standard source of dial tone (central office, Panasonic KX-T 61610 key system, magic jack, ATA, cable modem). It does not generate dial tone.
Quote from: poplar1 on July 06, 2018, 11:28:06 PM
I don't see how the controller can be used in place of a standard source of dial tone (central office, Panasonic KX-T 61610 key system, magic jack, ATA, cable modem). It does not generate dial tone.
I am using it to connect to the phone line. The red to Y green to L and yellow to ground on the relay.
The yellow wire on R goes to T up top to connect the red wire from #3 on the relay to the hookswitch.
This is how its wired now, the only change is the blue wire in the subset is disconnected.
OK, I see the yellow wire from the relay, although still I would not connect it until I had the talk path working. However, there should be no connection between relay and R on the hookswitch. What you are seeing as R in the diagram is the terminal on the back of the transmitter cup (yes, poorly drawn diagram). Look to the right in diagram and you will see the correct R, that has a yellow color wire going to the subset.No connection to the relay.
Again, 3 on relay has a long yellow wire that goes to T, along with the (originally red) transmitter wire. Relay does not connect to R on hookswitch.
Quote from: poplar1 on July 07, 2018, 12:01:28 AM
Again, 3 on relay has a long yellow wire that goes to T, along with the (originally red) transmitter wire. Relay does not connect to R on hookswitch.
Ok. So the #3 relay connection should terminate at T and I should remove the yellow wire going from T to R on hookswitch? Boy, I sure can't read drawings, lol. One day I am going to tr wake a class just so I can read electrical diagrams. I will head back over there in the morning and correct that.
The diagram is confusing because it shows the terminals inside the handset (W,W,BK,R) which at first glance appear to be terminals in the phone.
Phone originally had a cloth-like wire going from 3 on relay to T on terminal strip, where it connected to the red transmitter wire. Nothing between R on hookswitch and the terminal block at top.
Thanks poplar1 for correcting my error misinterpreting the handset connections on the diagram; my apologies to Butch. Frustrating as I had this all figured out and my 233G/685A working perfectly some time ago (since sold so I couldn't look at it)..... I needed forum help back then too, now that I think of it..... :)
Quote from: RotarDad on July 07, 2018, 12:54:29 AM
....I needed forum help back then too, now that I think of it..... :)
I would have been totally lost without assistance. I am more than thankful for folks here and elsewhere willing to lend their expertise to solve the problem. I am up super early for a Saturday, my dreams were peppered with images of fully functional paystations, I have no idea why. I am going back over to remove that wire and see where things are. Then once I have tested the firepower of this fully operational battlestation. I will blow up a planet or two in celebration.
Fear not the error, failure only moves me that much closer to success. It's the process I love, when it's done then I look for more things to fail on until I don't. If this was easy, I wouldn't want to do it.
Ok, removed the yellow wire from T to R, made sure all receiver wires were in the proper locations. Now the talk circuit works properly. I can hear, talk and be heard. It makes calls and everything without any difficulty or issue. I just need to wire the ringer to work and I am in the clean up phase.
It's all done! Looks great and has graduated from a piggy bank phone to a functional paystation. Thanks!
That's great news, Butch! Despite my "sabotage" with an errant wire, you got it running. It really feels great to get an old, neglected item like this working again, doesn't it? I just typed up a letter to my daughter today on my restored 1961 Olympia SM4 with cursive font - I just love the feeling of keeping the vintage stuff in service!
Congratulations, Butch. Nice work.
Quote from: Key2871 on July 07, 2018, 08:49:57 PM
Congratulations, Butch. Nice work.
Yes sir and thanks. That relay works flawlessly.
QuoteDespite my "sabotage" with an errant wire, you got it running.
no problem, I got there in the end. No fires, no throwing heavy things through windows, just patience. I have noticed I am far more patient as I get older, I may like that part of it.